Gorilla Glue #4

[guineapig]

Maybe from a distance it resembles the Chem family,
but really if you inspect the macros photos of the floral clusters,
there are certain traits that make GG4 very rare if not unique.

These traits include J-shaped trichomes
unusually tall capitate-stalks
unusually well-organized fields of trichomes
unusual presence of trichomes on abaxial leaf surfaces among other rare parts of leaves

Unc has a pic of an internode where you can isolate two tiny flowers for analysis
If you look at that pic, it looks like a tiny pincushion with pins in every possible space
The capitate stalks are just that strong, and they appear in well-organized fields

So it is not simply a matter of trichomes appearing on every possible leaf surface
We have seen a few strains exhibit this trait ("The White" comes to mind immediately)

an analysis of cannabinoid and terpene profiles would provide additional data

kind regards from guineapig

 

[captain planet]

I can't speak on the visual macro differences of the trichs but knowing the lineage, GG is *linebred on Chem genetics with a 1/4 outcross. Knowing breeding a little to many more outcrosses just add more and more variety and variables, backcrosses will possibly lock in good traits at the same time can lock in bad traits. Linebreeding is where I would go with it. Linebreeding allows for partial outcrosses (50/50s etc) to be bred keeping vigor and variability, but also should keep to the family average. With out a doubt the family average is higher than normal for great results, (Chem sis, sour dub, diesels, ) with out a doubt tho GG4 is special and beats the family average..... That's the goal stick close to the average, give a chance to beat the average, and don't inbreed so much to lose vigor and variability.... We shouldn't be breeding to recreate the glue, or be watered down versions, we need to use it to move forward!

Idk just my thoughts

 

[Backyard Farmer]

as far as blood type

AB is universal, so it is all of them technically

if I had 2 chickens and one was male one female, and one black and one white. If I wanted to get all white chickens the math would be pretty easy, kill the black chicks, breed the white ones to make more, rinse repeat

I'm gonna side with evolution, not Chimera

http://www.redcrossblood.org/learn-about-blood/blood-types

Actually type O is the universal donor, AB can only give to A or B and take from AB.

Genetics are very complicated. May I suggest the Principles of Plant Breeding and genetics by Izak Bos?

 

[Dr. Purpur]

it grows good outdoors too.

 

[Tonygreen]

I can't speak on the visual macro differences of the trichs but knowing the lineage, GG is *linebred on Chem genetics with a 1/4 outcross. Knowing breeding a little to many more outcrosses just add more and more variety and variables, backcrosses will possibly lock in good traits at the same time can lock in bad traits. Linebreeding is where I would go with it. Linebreeding allows for partial outcrosses (50/50s etc) to be bred keeping vigor and variability, but also should keep to the family average. With out a doubt the family average is higher than normal for great results, (Chem sis, sour dub, diesels, ) with out a doubt tho GG4 is special and beats the family average..... That's the goal stick close to the average, give a chance to beat the average, and don't inbreed so much to lose vigor and variability.... We shouldn't be breeding to recreate the glue, or be watered down versions, we need to use it to move forward!

Idk just my thoughts

To "move forward" you need homozygous pairings of the genes or how can you pass on the desired traits reliably? If not it is a crap shoot. Im my mind an outcross to another poly-hybrid or heterozygous plant is not the way to go unless you just want to pop a shitload of beans and try find another bad ass cut. Kinda like playing quick pick on the lottery

Now if you got the glue to a more homozygous state you have great breeding potential and could predict your results with some clarity as far as heritable traits go.

 

[Jbomber79]

I'm sorry can some explain to me why the gigi is not homozygous?

I would consider this a plant stable and homozygous?...talk to me..

 

[captain planet]

It's homozygous (shows traits) for everything I want it to be homozygous for!

Look at the pedigree, it's a lot less poly hybrid than meets the eye

 

[captain planet]

Now if you want to reduce heterzygosity of unwanted traits or variables sure inbreed, I'm not opposed, but your prob not gonna get the same as her and prob increase chance for possible negative het. Traits.... Linebreed best to best and make 50/50 crosses, and make 75/25 crosses. IMHO
As of now , there is no way to know what negatives she is heterozygous for if any, hasn't been bred enough

 

[unclefishstick]

it would be a bitch to stabilize it i would think,almost better to repeat the crosses using males here and there instead of doing it as an all female project...

 

[Tonygreen]

It's homozygous (shows traits) for everything I want it to be homozygous for!

Look at the pedigree, it's a lot less poly hybrid than meets the eye

"showing traits" does not make it homozygous bro. A heterozygous pair of genes express's its traits and "shows" too however a heterozygous pair of alleles will not "breed true".

A homozygous means identical alleles of the genes are present, could be AA or aa.

We don't know what she is homozygous for, would have to breed her out and evaluate many offspring to get an idea. I agree with Rick that the most effective way is evaluating an s1 generation. If all the babies vary widely in there expression you know she is highly heterozygous, if they mostly all come out the same you have a homozygous plant that breeds true. Some fem seeds are great but you see alot of reports where people go its not like the mom I selfed=====> highly heterozygous mom.

I would hypothesize the s1 generation will show tons of variability. Finding her perfect twin and reversing back to the gg4 cut would be a huge step toward stabilizing her and be highly effective method.

Why stabilize her? So you would have a plant that breeds true! Otherwise you are just throwing shit against a wall to see what sticks. (this method has its own merits) Thats what I consider all the cookie crosses out now.

Hey Unc, I agree it is alot of work, that's what most people shy away from.

 

[captain planet]

I don't doubt you can find out a lot about a plant by selfing...

As far as I know when you have two identical alleles you show said trait, ie blue eyes, freckles etc. I'm no geneticist and don't know everything and will not claim to. Heterozygous means you carry said gene without necessarily expressing it.

My knowledge is based off of dominant/recessive genes, I don't know much about how co doms react and relate.

Have Blue eyes ....= Homo for blue
Brown eyes with one parent that had blue= homo for brown het for blue

Without going further here, if you still see I have it wrong I'd love to continue via pm or separate thread or whatever

 

[Backyard Farmer]

just want to bring breeding science in to it, sour dub has 2 lines in it, chem sister is an unknown, chocolate diesel is trip x sdv3 I think or bx1.5 no matter what you use on it, you won't get any stability. What you will get is a mix of great genes.

All you have to do is write out a simple high school biology combination table and you'll see what I'm talking about.

If you want to try to represent the cut in seed form, look to making s1s and depending on the results maybe even s2..mainly just because of how many players come to the table to make up the gorilla gene pool.

Bless

Is there an echo in the room? Post #718

Tony , why do you feel cookie crosses are throwin anti against a wall? The cookie fam runs large numbers of seeds often in multiple environments takes notes keep males and multigenerational parentage on the female side use tools like selfing etc.,


The whole point of buying seeds is to get the representation of what's on the seed pack. No one wants something cookieish or gluelike what people pay money for is an accurate representation. There's a way to give it to them. You just have to be honest about how to get there. It probably won't be by crossing it to x18 or tres sister or sour bubble but like I mentioned earlier in the thread...looking through a large group of s1s will be the place to start...only if to see what you're working with.

you don't want to take the choice s1 back to the cut, the correct step would be to self again the s1 and grow out the S2 generation, using it as your gene bank and making lines to work in to each other out of that stock and go forward

 

[Tonygreen]

I agree Farmer!

Why do I say that about cookies? Because I see people releasing f1 crosses that have not had the progeny tested. Cookies is a poly hybrid too it is not stable or close accurate in seed forms I have seen, so much variation in all the crosses I have seen leads me to believe most are unworked besides the initial cross, let alone progeny tested.

Maybe there are some breeders doing it right but from what I seen mostly is a shitload of f1's with a new name slapped on em. Is there a true breeding cookie line out I am unaware of?

 

[azez]

leave the glue alone, lol
you get something thats great and you want to cross it
you guys crack me up
leave the bitch alone
peace
ez

 

[shawkmon]

lol all this breeding talk, cross plants ya like, and enjoy , find something ya realy like, then back cross it , its pretty much that easy . the gg4 is nice weed, hope i get some seeds from a cross one day, my buddy has epic cross , i just need a place to grow and i got them im sure

 

[Backyard Farmer]

No one has a legit cookie cut or stock to work with so no cookie hybrid is a legit one any way.

 

[Grizz]

ok , all the talk is of bx's or s1's. this talk about f2's since I have a original gg male. whats the likely hood of finding equal type plants by pollinating gg4 with my gg male??

 

[captain planet]

Full Brother to full sister breeding .... Idk but I think it's about the same odds and all of selfing but prob more stable. I'd like to hear more about what others think or know

 

[Hammerhead]

I have found more special plants in s1 then any other line. From what others I have spoken to they see the same. What does that tell us. When we make s1 does this jump ahead 2 spaces( faster getting to where yo want to be?) I keep all s1 seeds I find. So far none have been crap.

 

[Backyard Farmer]

ok , all the talk is of bx's or s1's. this talk about f2's since I have a original gg male. whats the likely hood of finding equal type plants by pollinating gg4 with my gg male??

The likelihood is unknown because the males recombination ability is untested.

You should reverse the male to evaluate his quality, then you can make assumptions on what will happen once you combine his traits.

Just a side note, the S1 generation is the same as the F2 in terms of genetic concentration.

One way to evaluate the homozygous traits of a female are to compare female A pollinated by lines 1 2 and 3 growing out A1 , A2 , and A3 and evaluating the traits that come through from the female side when combined with dissimilar genetics.

in other words you don't want to use lines that are in glue already because they will offset showing what traits glue fixes because the genetics are also on the her female side even if they're back on the tree like a father to the mother line ( sour d in chocolate diesel and sour dub) or a sibling line to the female ( like tres sister ) you need to use lines like haze, blueberry etc as out crosses because their combination potential is well documented. We all know what a blueberry dom or haze dom plant is, so seeing how the glue traits play in to those lines will show you what the glue is homozygous for.

This is the slow and painstaking way. To get on the fast track, make S1s, grow a big pool of them, like 500..find the most glue or better than glue but glue like and self that to make s2 (this means reverse your s1 and pollinate a clone of itself, not cross to Glue clone x s1)

Once you evaluate the male for its traits as a female cross the male to the winner S2 picked from 500+ and along the way you can cross the male to the clone and grow those out and evaluate those so you'll have plenty of glue gene banks to work in to each other to keep it tight but not get inbreeding depression.

The key is making the right 'battle cross' I don't know how else to describe it. The battle cross is when you make the combination of gene banks you have in the right order to get the show winner.