In all my thread reading this last month there sure are a lot of people having these problems with floranova in coco. Just saying. I sure would never use that stuff in coco.
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Epsome salt vs Cal Mag for Mag. deffitiency in coco
- Thread starter AloeRuss
- Start date
This is coco.
His PH is kinda on the high side.
I would not ever run ph 8-9 water through my coco unless its a cup with a cutting in it.
Here are some pictures of the leaves.
I tried capturing some images with stalks and stem
my ph when I feed usually 5.9 (at least last few times). is it too high for coco?
Also, I would like you to understand something.
I am not necesserly looking for a solid advice to change something. I would be changing things all day because everyone suggest different.
I am just looking for an opinions of educated group so I can decide the next steps.
Thanks
I tried capturing some images with stalks and stem
my ph when I feed usually 5.9 (at least last few times). is it too high for coco?
Also, I would like you to understand something.
I am not necesserly looking for a solid advice to change something. I would be changing things all day because everyone suggest different.
I am just looking for an opinions of educated group so I can decide the next steps.
Thanks
Attachments
Your plants dont look too bad.
Just a little overfed and about to claw
Your PH is fine, but on the high side.
At 5.5-5.8 mg should be more available, but its such a small difference...
Any higher than 6 and you are out of range for coco.
I think your plants are just being overfed an imbalanced diet and the coco needs to be reset and given a balanced feed
https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=142846
"Some coirs have been chemically treated, this is most often the case with loose pre-hydrated varieties versus compressed blocks. The treatment has been done to satisfy the cation exchange capacity (CEC) of the growing media. As a refresher, “cations” are positively charged ions, such as Calcium, Magnesium, Sodium, and Potassium. This means that the growing media will hold these ions in a matrix, releasing them as required by plants. There is one slight drawback to this. Until the cation exchange capacity of the growing media is filled, the growing media may hold positively charged nutrient ions, most notably calcium, in reserve, making them less available to plants. However, the cation exchange capacity (CEC) of the coir media is quickly filled, and actually assists calcium absorption in the crop cycle. To ensure optimum availability of all nutrients, supply additional calcium during the first week of growth or during the hydrating process of the coconut coir. Calcium supplement products are ideal for this. Some nutrients specifically formulated for coco tend to have elevated levels of calcium and magnesium while having lower levels of nitrogen. "
http://www.progressive-growth.com/article-coco-coir.php
Your coco was already prebuffered and doesnt need additional calmag.
I strongly suggest you drop the calmag or quit starting new threads asking for help with deficiencies.
Deficiency symptoms of Magnesium
Symptoms often appear first on the lower leaves, interveinal chlorosis in which the veins remain green is also observed. In more advanced stage the leaf tissue becomes uniformly pale yellow then brown and then necrosis occurs. Less photosynthetic area results in the reduction of bio chemical activities thus plant height and dry matter accumulation reduces drastically.
Just a little overfed and about to claw
Your PH is fine, but on the high side.
At 5.5-5.8 mg should be more available, but its such a small difference...
Any higher than 6 and you are out of range for coco.
I think your plants are just being overfed an imbalanced diet and the coco needs to be reset and given a balanced feed
https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=142846
"Some coirs have been chemically treated, this is most often the case with loose pre-hydrated varieties versus compressed blocks. The treatment has been done to satisfy the cation exchange capacity (CEC) of the growing media. As a refresher, “cations” are positively charged ions, such as Calcium, Magnesium, Sodium, and Potassium. This means that the growing media will hold these ions in a matrix, releasing them as required by plants. There is one slight drawback to this. Until the cation exchange capacity of the growing media is filled, the growing media may hold positively charged nutrient ions, most notably calcium, in reserve, making them less available to plants. However, the cation exchange capacity (CEC) of the coir media is quickly filled, and actually assists calcium absorption in the crop cycle. To ensure optimum availability of all nutrients, supply additional calcium during the first week of growth or during the hydrating process of the coconut coir. Calcium supplement products are ideal for this. Some nutrients specifically formulated for coco tend to have elevated levels of calcium and magnesium while having lower levels of nitrogen. "
http://www.progressive-growth.com/article-coco-coir.php
Your coco was already prebuffered and doesnt need additional calmag.
I strongly suggest you drop the calmag or quit starting new threads asking for help with deficiencies.
Deficiency symptoms of Magnesium
Symptoms often appear first on the lower leaves, interveinal chlorosis in which the veins remain green is also observed. In more advanced stage the leaf tissue becomes uniformly pale yellow then brown and then necrosis occurs. Less photosynthetic area results in the reduction of bio chemical activities thus plant height and dry matter accumulation reduces drastically.
I dunno dude.
I would still flush these and then feed them full strength 6/9 but Im hesitant to tell you full strength because that would mean 2.0ec
You want to back way off. I get away with 1.2 but Im sure others feed lower.
When you say tomorrow is feeding day, what do you mean?
How often are you water/feeding?
I would still flush these and then feed them full strength 6/9 but Im hesitant to tell you full strength because that would mean 2.0ec
You want to back way off. I get away with 1.2 but Im sure others feed lower.
When you say tomorrow is feeding day, what do you mean?
How often are you water/feeding?
I wanted to let you guys know that night before yesterday I used 30mg of Epsom along with my regular helping of CalMag. Guess what... Today I see the difference. The redness in stalks almost all gone and leaves are looking better.
I also picked a battle of Mag-Amped. This is to Replace Epsom for straight Magnesium deff.
But I think I will stick to what works. I think just adding Epsom did it.
I also picked a battle of Mag-Amped. This is to Replace Epsom for straight Magnesium deff.
But I think I will stick to what works. I think just adding Epsom did it.
Zarthustra
Member
5ml/gal sounds high. What nutes & quantities of these nutes are you using? Sounds like a ph problem if you have used this with success in the past. I'd run it out and have more information to go on.
When you see responses like this it usually means ph issues. Go get a few gallons of distilled water and run it through till you get some run off. Then calibrate your ph meter and watch your ph. I can bet you've been using tap water and until you get a grip on how to handle your tap things like this happen. Don't try over compensating with Jutes it's almost always ph. Distiller water has almost no impact on overall ph so start using distilled till you understand you're tap water better
NOW we're getting somewhere. if you would've only divulged this info sooner...
First, before you can go watering coco every day or even every other day you have to let roots FULLY FORM. That mean you water the coco and do not water again until the pot is extreme light and obviously dry. Right before the plants start wilting. Gradually you'll notice the pot becoming dryer quicker, until it requires watering everyday. Then you're good to go.
I asked you on page one, what do your roots look like?
DizzyGround
Member
Amazing how patient people are on this forum 
I'll add my stirr to the pot.
I've heard that flushing coco with plain water actually isn't so good flushing method. You should use 50% strenght for example so the salts flush out better. Correct me if im wrong.
I'll add my stirr to the pot.
I've heard that flushing coco with plain water actually isn't so good flushing method. You should use 50% strenght for example so the salts flush out better. Correct me if im wrong.
Those plants have been overfed N (watch out for insects) not underfed Mg. It don't matter what your media is...6.4 is the pH plants operate best at.
Cal Mag is N, Mg and Ca. When you are trying to add Mg you are also adding N...too much in this case. A chlorophyll molecules is a Mg surrounded by 4 Ns and a bunch of carbon chains attached. When you get too much N you get free nitrates vs protein in your leaves and the plant gives off an infrared spectrum that says free lunch to insects.
It is about balance not about how much...you are out of balance with too much N. Quit using Cal Mag and things will improve. If your leaves start to get a little yellow either go with CaNO3 or a little (and I mean little) Cal Mag.
Or not...it is your grow.
Cal Mag is N, Mg and Ca. When you are trying to add Mg you are also adding N...too much in this case. A chlorophyll molecules is a Mg surrounded by 4 Ns and a bunch of carbon chains attached. When you get too much N you get free nitrates vs protein in your leaves and the plant gives off an infrared spectrum that says free lunch to insects.
It is about balance not about how much...you are out of balance with too much N. Quit using Cal Mag and things will improve. If your leaves start to get a little yellow either go with CaNO3 or a little (and I mean little) Cal Mag.
Or not...it is your grow.
hi, did you ever solve your issues? i saw your pics and i read your description of the problem. it looks to me like you have root issues, might be overwatering or your pH is off like chimaera said. your leaves look like a mild mag def developing, but the rest of the leaves look like a few other def too like phos coming on and cal, and they're real heavy and droopy which is a sign of overwatering. i would let the pots dry out fairly light but not like all the way dry, just on the verge. look at the bottom of your pots for new roots poking out. water lightly when they are really close to bone dry. i have some unorthodox methods i use which won't help you but if you know what the pots feel like when you mixed the soil and before you watered em then wait till they feel about that light.
then water with enough to wet the soil, but not enough to runoff. wait till they use up all that water and feel light again before watering fully again. you should see the leaves will green up first and new growth resume by the time the roots are poking out again. since you're in coco your ph will drop really fast as it gets close to being all the way dry. if the leaves start curling inwards at the margins and start looking limp. i don't mean droopy like those pics i mean like wilted like its too dry or you see ...this is important... SPOTTING in the leaves like yellow or brown circular spots in the middle or on the margins it means the plants are burning. as the nutes build up in the tissue walls they literally burn from the inside out.
https://www.icmag.com/ic/attachment.php?attachmentid=254677&d=1392013080
if these yellow spots develop into a brighter yellow really rapidly, overnight or in a matter of hours, and you see the signs on other leaves. it's gonna be the oldest leaves first which is why fan leaves are important. then you need to water. do it lightly like i said and then when they drink all that up again you should be able to water normally again.
*EDIT* just noticed you have...what are those rockwool cubes? in your pots. you might wanna check there and make sure that part isn't too wet or dry. those plants look kinda small for that big (in relation) pot. might be the bottom of your pot is too wet and the top is too dry because the roots haven't spread all the way through the middle. would lead to a soggy choked root situation which would display all your symptoms.
if the bottom is too wet and the top is drier you will find in coco it just promotes roots to grow closer to the top of the soil.
the bottom stays wet, the top stays dry, you water the same way and it just gets worse. if you stick your finger in an inch or 2 on top is it much drier than if you poke your finger in one of the drain holes?
then water with enough to wet the soil, but not enough to runoff. wait till they use up all that water and feel light again before watering fully again. you should see the leaves will green up first and new growth resume by the time the roots are poking out again. since you're in coco your ph will drop really fast as it gets close to being all the way dry. if the leaves start curling inwards at the margins and start looking limp. i don't mean droopy like those pics i mean like wilted like its too dry or you see ...this is important... SPOTTING in the leaves like yellow or brown circular spots in the middle or on the margins it means the plants are burning. as the nutes build up in the tissue walls they literally burn from the inside out.
https://www.icmag.com/ic/attachment.php?attachmentid=254677&d=1392013080
if these yellow spots develop into a brighter yellow really rapidly, overnight or in a matter of hours, and you see the signs on other leaves. it's gonna be the oldest leaves first which is why fan leaves are important. then you need to water. do it lightly like i said and then when they drink all that up again you should be able to water normally again.
*EDIT* just noticed you have...what are those rockwool cubes? in your pots. you might wanna check there and make sure that part isn't too wet or dry. those plants look kinda small for that big (in relation) pot. might be the bottom of your pot is too wet and the top is too dry because the roots haven't spread all the way through the middle. would lead to a soggy choked root situation which would display all your symptoms.
if the bottom is too wet and the top is drier you will find in coco it just promotes roots to grow closer to the top of the soil.
the bottom stays wet, the top stays dry, you water the same way and it just gets worse. if you stick your finger in an inch or 2 on top is it much drier than if you poke your finger in one of the drain holes?
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Hi. Sorry for long silence. Been absent in a cave
Here is what i found after a week of searching and talking to various people at various places All though CalMag has N in it, as a nutrient it is still very beneficial to plants at any stage. I decided not to cut it out of my regiment completley. I continue to use it as recommended.
I learned that Epsom Salt in coco brings many benefits, especially if you have Mag looking deffitiency. I also wanted to see an effect of salt in my particular situation, so I started adding 50mg of that to my 55 gallon tank.
The results were pleasant. Almost overnight, salt did what it does and signes of diffitiencies started dissapearing quickly.
What I have right now is, no purple stems, still purple stalks on the old leaves. New leaves stalks are green. 100 percent of leaves looks green and normal. A lot of them are perky and looking up. But some 20 percent still display a slight curl downward, but they still look healthy. Today is a 13th day of bloom and bud development seems to be a bit ahead of schedule.
Seems that if I will continue with exactly the same thing, this grow will be just as good as the last.
But most importantly, I don't feel that something may go wrong any day. Which is how I felt when I started with coco for the first time.
The garden gives me strong and happy sence that things are progressing as good as they can be.
BTW, I will recommend using Bud Blood in the first week of bloom. You easily see the difference.
Here is what i found after a week of searching and talking to various people at various places All though CalMag has N in it, as a nutrient it is still very beneficial to plants at any stage. I decided not to cut it out of my regiment completley. I continue to use it as recommended.
I learned that Epsom Salt in coco brings many benefits, especially if you have Mag looking deffitiency. I also wanted to see an effect of salt in my particular situation, so I started adding 50mg of that to my 55 gallon tank.
The results were pleasant. Almost overnight, salt did what it does and signes of diffitiencies started dissapearing quickly.
What I have right now is, no purple stems, still purple stalks on the old leaves. New leaves stalks are green. 100 percent of leaves looks green and normal. A lot of them are perky and looking up. But some 20 percent still display a slight curl downward, but they still look healthy. Today is a 13th day of bloom and bud development seems to be a bit ahead of schedule.
Seems that if I will continue with exactly the same thing, this grow will be just as good as the last.
But most importantly, I don't feel that something may go wrong any day. Which is how I felt when I started with coco for the first time.
The garden gives me strong and happy sence that things are progressing as good as they can be.
BTW, I will recommend using Bud Blood in the first week of bloom. You easily see the difference.
I'm no expert but I've read a real lots of people saying you need to stop with the cal-mag at some point in flower. It's not something you keep adding all the way through on top of what's already in your nutes. Goodluck!
