Can tapping

[icdog]

Was wondering how long it takes you guys to can tap and what your procedure is in case there is anything that can make it more efficient.

I did 13 cans in 1 hour. I put the hose from the can tap on the injection port instead of the vac pump port. Worked basically the same.
Had the collection pot sitting in water that was about 100 - 110 F and the pot was steady at 85 - 90ish with the IR thermometer.
I tap the can around the bottom and opposite of the seam.

I find some cans are quick and some take forever. Sometimes when the vac collapses the can its pretty scary.
Does it matter what level the can and the hose are compared to the pot and the appion?
Sometimes I have to wave around the can and lift it around to get it all out.

Is there an angle the can should be set at depending where the can is tapped and a level it should be at which will allow the butane to escape out easily?

 

[NorCalHawaii]

didnt see in your process where you purge the tapper of air in the lines. After tapping the can i connect to the system finger tight release the valve on the tapper and lightly unscrew the conncetion until tane comes out then quickly tighten. This prevents adding air to the system thus preventing possible explosive atmosphere in your system.

i stick my butane cans in the freezer or in my saltwater/ice bath prior to tapping too.

 

[NorCalHawaii]

also think of your upright butane can as a glass of water 80% full. the top 20% is propane (propellant) and is in gas form. Where would you tap a glass of water to get the most out? The bottom, but not on a seam lol. I tap as low as possible and just put the seam opposite the tapper, then connect, bleed out the air, open valve and just wait holding upright. when it gets low i tilt the can toward the tapper and usually stop before it hisses or try too at least. Hope this helps.

 

[bull619]

I want to start doing this but having trouble finding the correct hose and fittings to connect to the can tap which I do have already. GW posted a link to a part that had the ball valve already attached but couldn't order off that site. Any further info would be awesome.

 

[icdog]

Try these bull
http://www.yellowjacket.com/product/701

Norcal - I was refering to the process after already vac'ing the terp and all hoses of atmosphere.
Why would you freeze the cans before tapping? Doesn't this lower the pressure in them making it harder for the butane to escape?

 

[NorCalHawaii]

Try these bull
http://www.yellowjacket.com/product/701

Norcal - I was refering to the process after already vac'ing the terp and all hoses of atmosphere.
Why would you freeze the cans before tapping? Doesn't this lower the pressure in them making it harder for the butane to escape?

i believe it keeps it liquid but it might just be overkill and i might just be wrong, but it gets all the tane out of the can so...

 

[NorCalHawaii]

Try these bull
http://www.yellowjacket.com/product/701

Norcal - I was refering to the process after already vac'ing the terp and all hoses of atmosphere.

And i am also talking about post system vac. Switching cans specifically. The air that is between the can and the valve. Pushing it out with butane to avoid pushing it (air) into the system. Its probably just overkill and may not be needed, but imho you cant get too safe.

 

[Gray Wolf]

Was wondering how long it takes you guys to can tap and what your procedure is in case there is anything that can make it more efficient.

I did 13 cans in 1 hour. I put the hose from the can tap on the injection port instead of the vac pump port. Worked basically the same.
Had the collection pot sitting in water that was about 100 - 110 F and the pot was steady at 85 - 90ish with the IR thermometer.
I tap the can around the bottom and opposite of the seam.

I find some cans are quick and some take forever. Sometimes when the vac collapses the can its pretty scary.
Does it matter what level the can and the hose are compared to the pot and the appion?
Sometimes I have to wave around the can and lift it around to get it all out.

Is there an angle the can should be set at depending where the can is tapped and a level it should be at which will allow the butane to escape out easily?

Since I know you have a recycling system, may I suggest that you vacuum distill your butane as you inject it, to remove any residual contaminants, and catch the paint chips from the outside of the can which are scraped off by the can tapper.

Set your recovery pot in 85F or cooler water to keep it from freezing up from evaporative cooling, and hook your can tapper hose to the butane injection port.

Leave the lower dump valve open and open/close the butane injection valve when you switch cans in the tapper, or use a hose with an integral ball valve.

Change cans every time the compound pressure/vacuum gauge hits zero, and when the last can is recovered to zero, vent the remaining butane vapors in the system to atmosphere using the high vacuum pump.

Remove and clean the lower pot to remove the mystery oil and paint chips.

Tap the can about a 1/2" or so from the bottom, opposite the seam, and set the can upright, or at a slight angle so that the tap is the low point.

 

[icdog]

Thanks GW thats basically how I do it, except I pump down to -22 or so for each can. If I change a can before -22 there is usually allot of butane left in the can.
What happens when you do it at 0? Is the extra from 0 to -22 negligible?

I didn't realize paint chips might get in there. Speaking of the MO does anyone know what the stuff is yet?

 

[Gray Wolf]

Thanks GW thats basically how I do it, except I pump down to -22 or so for each can. If I change a can before -22 there is usually allot of butane left in the can.
What happens when you do it at 0? Is the extra from 0 to -22 negligible?

I didn't realize paint chips might get in there. Speaking of the MO does anyone know what the stuff is yet?

Only vapor left in the can after about -10 which has a liquid/vapor ratio of about 288:1. -22 is getting dangerously close to an imploded can.

Yup, Skyhighler did this for quantities:
https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=275567

Attached is the content analysis.

 

[nakadashi]

Thanks GW thats basically how I do it, except I pump down to -22 or so for each can. If I change a can before -22 there is usually allot of butane left in the can.
What happens when you do it at 0? Is the extra from 0 to -22 negligible?

I didn't realize paint chips might get in there. Speaking of the MO does anyone know what the stuff is yet?

When using this method I change cans at about 15"hg and it does not seem to leave much butane.

 

[icdog]

Ya I've had a few imploded cans, its interesting.

 

[bicboi]

can tap

can tap

First time can tapping with m k 3 and recovery pump .
Wasted 2 cans of tane already.
Butane isn't leaving the can after getting punctured during tapping process?? What am I doing wrong.
I come to the conclusion that it has something to do with the valve stem inside the can tapper?

Thx in advance!!!

 

[FishmanK]

First time can tapping with m k 3 and recovery pump .
Wasted 2 cans of tane already.
Butane isn't leaving the can after getting punctured during tapping process?? What am I doing wrong.
I come to the conclusion that it has something to do with the valve stem inside the can tapper?

Thx in advance!!!

there are threads about that valve and how to remove it
its basically the same valve as in a bike or car tire stem and screws out w a special tool

 

[FishmanK]

how useful/needed is nitrogen flushing before changing a column or opening a collection pot and can mid-sized systems be flushed instead of recovered to such low vac for longer pump life?
Are the losses from this within acceptable ranges?

 

[Old Gold]

A fire Marshall would likely enjoy seeing that you backfill with N2 before opening anything up.

Lots of terpene loss with nitrogen purging, especially in a dissolved state. But backfilling should be very efficient for solvent removal.
Are you talking about recovering, say, to 0psi, then forcing off butane with nitrogen? Be careful of "bumping" if you've got too much solvent in there. It seems doable.

 

[jswick93]

First time can tapping with m k 3 and recovery pump .
Wasted 2 cans of tane already.
Butane isn't leaving the can after getting punctured during tapping process?? What am I doing wrong.
I come to the conclusion that it has something to do with the valve stem inside the can tapper?

Thx in advance!!!

You need a schrader valve removal tool. Go to an auto parts store to get one. It's quick and easy to remove from the tapper.

 

[Gray Wolf]

First time can tapping with m k 3 and recovery pump .
Wasted 2 cans of tane already.
Butane isn't leaving the can after getting punctured during tapping process?? What am I doing wrong.
I come to the conclusion that it has something to do with the valve stem inside the can tapper?

Thx in advance!!!

The stem can be a problem, so I take it out/

 

[Gray Wolf]

how useful/needed is nitrogen flushing before changing a column or opening a collection pot and can mid-sized systems be flushed instead of recovered to such low vac for longer pump life?
Are the losses from this within acceptable ranges?

If you recover to -22", you still have a 25% butane atmosphere inside. Butane is explosive between about 1.8 and 8.4%, so plenty left for an explosion if ignited.

Vacuuming to -29.9, and backfilling with nitrogen before opening, eliminates that hazard.

https://www.mathesongas.com/pdfs/products/Lower-(LEL)-&-Upper-(UEL)-Explosive-Limits-.pdf

 

[bicboi]

OK so I just need to remove that one stem and I'm good to go? Should I remove the little ball rolling inside aswell?