Epsome salt vs Cal Mag for Mag. deffitiency in coco

[AloeRuss]

Hello

I been using Cal Mag with every feeding. 5 ml per gallon in my coco grow. However, I start to see a mild signs of Magnesium deffitiency on some of my plants.
Epsom Salt was pronounced as the fix for it. But so as Cal Mag. Am I not adding enough or not correctly?
Should I be using the salt alongside with Cal Mag?
What u guys think?

 

[habeeb]

might be def.. might be an imbalance , way too many variable to know.

yes, epsoms are mg and sulfur.. I can't tell you what to do, where to start, but I use epsoms in coco

 

[Asslover]

It depends on what brand nutrients you use and how much...
BUT IN GENERAL, i do not believe it is a lack of cal or mg thats giving you what looks like an Mg def.
What do the roots look like?

 

[Chimera]

Your pH is probably too low preventing the Mg from being absorbed by the plants, most commercial ferts have sufficient amounts of Mg, and since you are adding Calmag also, there should be plenty.

Calibrate your pH meter, water with pH 7 water with no nutes added and check the pH and EC/PPM of your runoff. I suspect you are below 5.7 or so, which is causing he lockout. If so flush your system with high pH water (8-9) for an hour or so then reset your pH in the reservoir to 6.3-6.8 and the plants should bounce back within a couple of days.

Hope that helps,
-Chimera

 

[papaduc]

I've seen your plants and you haven't got a magnesium deficiency.

You've got some problem, but it's definitely not a magnesium deficiency and it won't be solved by adding more or trying to make it more available.

 

[AloeRuss]

It deffenatley seems like to me. Most of other leaves seems to agree there.
I use Cal Mag 5ml per Gal.

Besides, I think Mag deffitiency is the easiest to identify.
Pale green leaves with the veins that are still green. Stalk and stem turn purple. Classic.
Can those signs be confused with anything else?

 

[MrGoodBudz]

To me 5ml per gallon of cal-mag is insane. I know the bottle says if using RO to apply the 5ml per gal but every time I use over 3ml per in every feeding my plants are too dark green and will develop some rust spots and marginal curling. If I persist with high calmag my plants will go straight to red stems. So I use 2-3ml per gallon of calmag and 1tsp per gallon of Epsom in a foliar as/if needed. I grow in coco. Think my plants are pretty healthy

 

[papaduc]

If they're the pictures you posted in the other thread, that's not a mag def.

The truth is, and this is something I have lost track on the amount of times I've said, to see a genuine magnesium deficiency these days, using these nutes and this quality of coco, is very rare unless it's being locked out by a mistake you're making somewhere else.

Nutrients have more than enough magnesium already in them. Plus, you're adding more on top. There's probably a lot more magnesium in there than they even need.

It's become a myth in coco growing that a magnesium deficiency is a common thing to see. It's not, and if you're feeding a balanced plant food in a good quality coco you might never see it once in years growing in the stuff.

Post some full plant pictures in normal light (not hps) and let's have a proper look at them.

Also, what are you feeding, and at what ec?

 

[MrGoodBudz]

How much and of what are you using for a base? I don't usually get light green leaves when I use too much calmag. They are usually too dark green.

 

[Nifty_PoT]

If i had to guess i would say that you have added too much cal mag. Ca has maybe built up in your rootzone to where it is starting to lock out or compete with other cations and thus causing problems, i would suggest to do flush with 1EC/ph5,8 base nutrients no additives. And try not to use so much Cal mag , it shouldn't be necessary.

 

[Chimera]

Did you collect your runoff yet as suggested above and take the pH / EC? We can't help you without your cooperation.

 

[Coconutz]

Yea dude.
Im sure everyones told you a million times by now!
Cut it out with all these additives!
Theres no way you have a deficiency damn it!
Youve caused a toxicity and have probably locked out other elements.
You are adding way too much N and Cal
Your plants dont even resemble a mg deficiency in the slightest bit.
I suggest again that you flush with a light nute solution and back the fuck off the additives.
Base nutes only until you realize you arent going to end up with any fucking deficiency if you dial that shit in instead of adding shit you dont need.
Reduce your base nutes and lower your ph a little at a time.

https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=11688
Magnesium is one of the easiest deficiencies to tell… the green veins along with the yellowness of the entire surrounding leave is a dead giveaway, but sometimes that’s not always the case here. In case you have one of those where it doesn’t show the green veins, sometimes leaf tips and edges may discolor and curl upward. The growing tips can turn lime green when the deficiency progresses to the top of the plant. The edges will feel like dry and crispy and usually affects the lower leaves in younger plants, then will affect the middle to upper half when it gets older, but It can also happen on older leaves as well. The deficiency will start at the tip then will take over the entire outer left and right sides of the leaves. The inner part will be yellow and or brownish in color, followed by leaves falling without withering. The tips can also twist and turn as well as curving upwards as if you curl your tongues.


Excessive levels of magnesium in your plants will exhibit a buildup of toxic salts that will kill the leaves and lock out other nutrients like Calcium (Ca). Mg can get locked out by having too much Calcium, Chlorine or ammonium in your soil/water.
One of the worst problems a person can have is a magnesium def caused by a ph lockout. By giving it more magnesium to cure the problem when you are thinking you are doing good, but actually you are doing more harm then good. When the plants can’t take in a nutrient because of the ph being off for that element, the plant will not absorb it but it will be in the soil… therefore causing a buildup. A buildup will be noticed by the outer parts of the plant becoming whitish and or a yellowish color. The tips and part way in on the inner leaves will die and feel like glass. Parts affected by Magnesium deficiency are: space between the veins (Interveinal) of older leaves; may begin around interior perimeter of leaf.

 

[AloeRuss]

Look coconutz.. I know your attitude and your way of getting your point across.
You are telling me to change something that worked at least 5 different grows, so I am not going to do that! Understood? I asked specific question.. If I can use the salt with CalMag. If you don't think I should or I don't have deffitiency, say that. But don't mention me backing of from something I ve used for little bit over a year now with not a marginal but an awesome success. Thank you.

Gentleman. I never had to raise this question in the past.
In the past I was growing in peat moss and I really didn't have any deffitiencies at all.
I got my hands on 10 qb of free coco. That's why I am in it right now. And naturally, I react to any inconsistency that shows up. Trying to learn coco.
Chimera - I will get the picture as soon as the light is up in the room.
I use flora nova for base and I use about 100 ml of it right now.

The main question if you can help to answer. Should I even consider using salt if I use CalMag every time I feed.

Oh yeah.. I will get runoff when I water.
Thank you

 

[DrDee]

Hi Aloe,
My feelings are that you shouldn't use both MgSO4 AND CalMag at the same time. I advise to use one or the other...primarily depending on if you need the extra Ca.

If you're using tap water loaded with Ca...and need more Mg...then Epsom salts are the way to go. But if you're using RO, then it's probably better to use CalMag. Of course your nutrient make up and dosage should be taken into consideration (how much Ca it contains).

Looking forward to seeing what your runoff ppm is. That should tell the story.
DrDee

 

[Arthritis_sucks]

Straight up listen to Chimera, and also don't stop the Cal/Mg. Get your Epsom salt an foliar the ladies with a 1/2 tsp. per gallon. They are in def. mode an need what they can't get an you also need to get your rhizosphere in check since there is an apparent problem with uptake of nutrients.

Now go to work and come back an tell us how it went. GETR DUHN!

 

[TheCleanGame]

---snip---

 

[medman225]

I am not an expert, just trying to get some more specifics from the experts...
so if yall are saying 5mg is too much, what would be the proper amount for in veg and in flowering?.... I hear people saying 2ml every feed... others sayin 2.5 every couple feeds....

 

[Coconutz]

Look coconutz.. I know your attitude and your way of getting your point across.
You are telling me to change something that worked at least 5 different grows, so I am not going to do that! Understood? I asked specific question.. If I can use the salt with CalMag. If you don't think I should or I don't have deffitiency, say that. But don't mention me backing of from something I ve used for little bit over a year now with not a marginal but an awesome success. Thank you.

Gentleman. I never had to raise this question in the past.
In the past I was growing in peat moss and I really didn't have any deffitiencies at all.
I got my hands on 10 qb of free coco. That's why I am in it right now. And naturally, I react to any inconsistency that shows up. Trying to learn coco.
Chimera - I will get the picture as soon as the light is up in the room.
I use flora nova for base and I use about 100 ml of it right now.

The main question if you can help to answer. Should I even consider using salt if I use CalMag every time I feed.

Oh yeah.. I will get runoff when I water.
Thank you

Isnt this your first run in coco?
Good luck!
And cut the cal, flush and backoff the nutes to a more reasonable level for coco
Peace

 

[papaduc]

Should I even consider using salt if I use CalMag every time I feed.

Let me try and put something into perspective...

Some nutrients used to grow tomatoes have a little bit of magnesium in them. Some have calcium. Usually it's calcium which is missing. Calcium helps prevent blossom-end rot.

Tomatoes are very similar in nutritional requirements to cannabis, and are considered greedy feeders.

Tomato food, even those which don't contain any calcium at all and a lot less magnesium than you find in boutique hydro blend cannabis nutes, can be used with very good results to grow weed right the way through veg and flower. There are some cracking grows done with basic tomato feed where people have comfortably cleared the gpw mark.

Bottled cannabis feeds offer a range of nutrition to our plants that you usually won't find anywhere else in gardening.

I remember talking to someone at an annual fruit and veg show who told me "you know what the best foods are for these?... the weed stuff... when the police raid these grow houses, they bring whatever nutrients they find to us... it's the best stuff" He said with a little sly smile...

I was like, "really?... wow"

It's a lack of basic understanding of general plant health and gardening that's led us to believe cannabis has a ravenous desire to consume as much magnesium and calcium as it can before it dies off...

It needs no more of these two elements than it does nitrogen, phosphorus, potassium, sulfur....

Why are these things not used on top of base feed from the beginning?

Growing weed, like growing any plant, is about feeding nutrients in a good balance. The plant will then take what it needs when it needs it. Things like epsom salts and calcium nitrate are only every supposed to be used to correct a rare deficiency.

In a bottle of floranova you've got every single element a plant needs. It's a custom built profile, a perfect menu of ingredients for the plant to thrive.

So, magnesium and calcium are already in that feed, and they're in there in abundance. There's as much as the plant will ever need to consume...

But.....

Then people are adding in even more on top, in the form of calmag....

So at this point, even if somehow the plant genuinely did need even more calcium or magnesium, it would be getting it, and then some..

But still... still... there seems to be some doubt as to whether it's still not getting enough.

Believe me. On every single thing I know about this plant, without any doubt whatsoever.. Your plant needs no more magnesium added to it's daily diet.

There's something else wrong. I am 1000% sure of it.

 

[Ickis]

Two days and 2 pages and you haven't posted a single picture. You haven't seriously considered anything that anybody has posted.

I would chime in but this thread is like most help me threads.