Air condition more efficient ?

[Edo]

HI all,

i´m wondering why I can not find big or large (6k upwards) grows with a exhaust system. It seems everybody is using AC.

Is it more efficient to cool the room with a AC instead of using a exhaust system with active air intake.

AC need lots of power but if you need two fans or lets say 4 fans (2 for active intake and 2 for outtake), thats also a lot of power.


greetings

 

[the gnome]

In dec my new bloom room went online with 6000w,
it can get pretty toasty pretty quick in there without AC
I tried it

if your depending on intake/out take fans to cool
what happens and what will you do when the outside temps hit 85degrees and climb into the 90s w/Rh@72%..... ?
even if the intake air is 80 the temps the temps in the room will still be a fair bit warmer I would think and you'll have hot spots.
you would have to have some beastly monster hi CFM exchange fans to even keep a a 6000w close to intake air temps.
I'm only speculating tho... never tried it.
you need AC to keep good stable control of your enviroment

 

[budleydoright]

When making that kind of investment in monthly expenses, one typically needs a guaranteed return. Running sealed is the most effecient means to this end. While it without doubt uses much more energy, a proper sealed room can return consistent crops month after month like nothing else. Less bugs, pathogens with consistent temp humidity and elevated co2 levels.

That's why.

 

[Ttystikk]

To move enough air to effectively cool 6kW of lighting, you'd have absolutely no control over its humidity or CO². The idea is to control the AIR itself in the room; not just temperature, but humidity and CO² content as well. Perforce this means you're not going to be exchanging it, now you just want to remove heat and/or moisture from it.

Contrary to those who endorse Air conditioning, I'm a long time believer in and happy user of Water chilling. The difference is that my water cools the room, controls humidity, AND maintains the temperature of my RDWC all simultaneously, and for far less operating cost than AC. That operating cost difference gets larger as altitude rises and ambient relative humidity falls- which means, for instance, that in high altitude dry climate Colorado, a chiller operates substantially more efficiently than equivalent AC. This despite of the fact that the two units share most of their components, lol.

I'm even able to gain dual use of the heat my chiller is removing from my op; instead of just shoving it outside, the chiller's heat warms my house all winter, even as I write this. That alone has saved me the cost of the unit itself just in gas heating bills over the last few years!

 

[Ttystikk]

When making that kind of investment in monthly expenses, one typically needs a guaranteed return. Running sealed is the most effecient means to this end. While it without doubt uses much more energy, a proper sealed room can return consistent crops month after month like nothing else. Less bugs, pathogens consistent temp humidity and elevated co2 levels.

That's why.

The only part of this post I disagree with is that in which he assumes that it must be much more expensive to run sealed, and I now believe this need not be so. In fact, as is often the case when capturing efficiencies, it's actually a lot cheaper than it once was.

 

[budleydoright]

Contrary to those who endorse Air conditioning, I'm a long time believer in and happy user of Water chilling. The difference is that my water cools the room, controls humidity, AND maintains the temperature of my RDWC all simultaneously, and for far less operating cost than AC. That operating cost difference gets larger as altitude rises and ambient relative humidity falls- which means, for instance, that in high altitude dry climate Colorado, a chiller operates substantially more efficiently than equivalent AC. This despite of the fact that the two units share most of their components, lol.

Tell us more about your WC setup. Are you using a WC air handler?

I don't think the ICE box and the fresca sol did much good for water coolings rep in this hobby.
When I ran my water cold enough to dehumidify, it got sloppy with water condensing on all of the hoses and fittings.
Plus all of the additional plumbing, ducting fans etc. Watercooled just doesn't scale up well when using spot cooling like the ice box. An airhandler on the other hand with all open hood would definately be a nice kit for 6k.

I also got powdery mildew from condensation dripping on my plants at one point.

 

[supermanlives]

ambient air temps gen make larger grows need ac....if it stays cold year round then it would change things

 

[Ttystikk]

Tell us more about your WC setup. Are you using a WC air handler?

I don't think the ICE box and the fresca sol did much good for water coolings rep in this hobby.

As is often the case, it wasn't the equipment that was at fault; it was the stupid shit they suggested that you do with it that really got on my last nerve! I mean, wtf kind of dumbass would suggest you spend money to chill air that's leaving the building anyway?!

I run a grip of those very same 8" Iceboxes, and they are excellent little heat exchange cores! However, very lush plant growth in a small growroom can overwhelm their ability to remove adequate moisture, requiring a bigger air handler. This does not mean they are crap; they are actually VERY affordable for their size and capabilities. They are just no substitute for a proper multi-Ton capacity air handler, at least not if you want both temperature and humidity control in a bigger room.

In the pic out two that follow, look at it vertically; the muffin fan on top blows air from near the ceiling down through the Icebox and then on down the ducting, which contains the water droplets and lets me catch them and return them to the RDWC... which means I don't do refills, lol.

 

[budleydoright]

Yea, dehumidifying can be a real challange. Fortunately, our girls prefer the humidity. Running full capacity, my room will generate 30 gallons of condensate per day.

It's all a balance. I used to adjust the water temp in my fresca sol fixtures to ad more heat to my room to keep the AC running instead of the dehuey. The dehuey would heat things up and then both units would be running and the RH would start to swing.

The more I tried to scale up. The more problems I started to have. That's when I did a 180 and went open hood with proper AC.

Not a dis on your setup. Looks tits! getting dialed and producing is what's important. how we arrive there isn't

 

[BatmanX]

Sealed room, with a mini split and supplemented C02....oh how I dream

 

[Asslover]

That's when I did a 180 and went open hood with proper AC.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Exactly how we do it down here in Florida. Sealed, co2'd, dehumidified (Yes, you need a dehumidifier), open hoods and minisplits.

 

[the gnome]

:
I'm fl also, i ran a 2000w air cooled hoods non sealed bedroom grow using the central heat and air. it very doable but the room dictated the ac for the entire house 6-7 months out of the year, during the cooler months it was a breeze and actually used the 2000w of heat pumped back into the duct system to heat the house.

but as budley and mr asslova said sealed, co2 open bulbs minisplit is the only way to go.
its easy having complete control over your enviroment

I couldn't see it being doable with 6000w with out it that way and getting what that sized room is capable of delivering.
if your gonna go with that many lamps you have to step up the game, no more 1/2 measures and corner cutting

 

[BatmanX]

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Exactly how we do it down here in Florida. Sealed, co2'd, dehumidified (Yes, you need a dehumidifier), open hoods and minisplits.

word, becareful with dehumidies there was just a lot recalled for fire hazards, stay safe!

 

[Edo]

ambient air temps gen make larger grows need ac....if it stays cold year round then it would change things

What if you live in a area where the annual average temperature is about 48 F? 3 hottest months would be june(62F) july(66F) august (68F) <- Always average temperatures


Would it there be more efficient to cool the room with a exhaust system or still more efficient to use AC?

 

[budleydoright]

If I had cold temps I would absolutely find a way to utilize your conditions to maximize efficiencies. I would probably use a water cooled airhandler and your cold water.

 

[Edo]

If I had cold temps I would absolutely find a way to utilize your conditions to maximize effeciencies. I would probably use a water cooled airhandler and your cold water.

Never read about a water cooled airhandler. No idea what it is

 

[the gnome]

we called em swamp coolers i colorado,
its basically a radiator with cold water running thru it with a fan blowing air thru the cooling fins.
it also acts as a dehuey, water in the air condenses passing thru the cooling fins.
there's an ic member that made one.
but yeah if you have a steady supply of cold running water and how cold it is,
a 6000w gro sounds doable

swamp coolers were everywhere on roofs when i lived near denver.
when i moved to florida I didn't know what an air conditioner for a house was

 

[Edo]

So in a cold climate like i mentioned before a water cooled air handler would be the most efficient way to cool a 6-10k grow?

 

[budleydoright]

Not a swamp but an air handler. Just like an air handler for refrigerated air but the coils are made for water flow instead of refrigerant. You could put a barrel of water outside and pump the cold water through the airhandler. You would only require pumps and blowers. No compressors.

You could easily make something with heat exchangers sourced on ebay.

 

[the gnome]

an air handler is with running water thru it is what I was thinking
swamp coolers are something different and work on a water evaporation basis instead of direct water cooling.
if you had a small pond/lake close enough you'd be sittin pretty