Using h&g cocos a+b, but not the h&g additives ? What do you use with it?

[Ez Rider]

I've been using the H&G line(soil&flakes) +full additive line in ffof and light-mix, off and on with reasonable success. I've discovered coco and decided it's what I like. I'm currently using the coco's a+b with full additives. I'm wondering if all the additives are worth the $$ ? So, if you use the coco's a+b as a base, but not the h&g additives, I'd like to hear how you do it, and what kind of results you get. Thanks...

 

[goofy81]

I'm currently using H & G A + B with koolbloom liquid, and H&G BudXL.
It looks ok, the ratings they recommend are giving me nute burn though
Im not using their shooting powder because its way too expensive and i read somewhere online that its extremely strong and u canot reuse the medium which i wont be doing anyway.

 

[indabonga]

h&g cocco a+b with only atami pk 14-18 from the 3 week of flo to 7.amazing results.

 

[purplypurps]

Medium/Botanicare pure coco, Base/ H&G Aqua Flakes(adjust ppms to strain needs, I find once plant is established 800 ppms in veg thru flower is plenty), ADD/Botanicare Silica Blast weeks 1-5,ADD/ Rock Resinator weeks 2-6.5, ADD/Bud XL weeks 4-7, ADD/MOAB week 1 at .5
gram per gallon, weeks 5-6 1 gram per gallon and cut your rock resinator and base nutrients in half, ADD/Multizyn once plant is established once a week until week 3, ADD/CalMag veg thru week 6 if R.O. water is used

 

[otis33]

Drip clean@1ml/gal plus base. I don't usually go over 8ml a&b/gal...the feed chart recommends way too much.1.2 ec is about where you want to be with coco. The only additive I use in addition to drop clean is moab. I've used the full line and I've had results just as good with base only.

 

[otis33]

Forgot about silica, protekt@2-5ml /gal. Protekt is something I won't go without; it makes a huge difference stem strength and over all plant health.

 

[otis33]

I know you are asking about additives outside of h&gs line, but I also have to mention that roots excel is a good one too that I use during veg, noticeable increase in root development...bigger roots= bigger shoots

 

[Ez Rider]

I'm currently using H & G A + B with koolbloom liquid, and H&G BudXL.
It looks ok, the ratings they recommend are giving me nute burn though
Im not using their shooting powder because its way too expensive and i read somewhere online that its extremely strong and u canot reuse the medium which i wont be doing anyway.

If you're going full strength by the chart, I'm not surprised you're burning. I'm just started week 4, and I'm running 6ml/gal of base(chart says 9.5-14ml). Ec is ~1.6(fairly strong). I'm using the full line, per chart except the base. I also add 15ml budswel and 5ml molasses for flavor. If I went by the chart, my ec would be >2.0.

What weeks are you using the liquid kb in?

h&g cocco a+b with only atami pk 14-18 from the 3 week of flo to 7.amazing results.

You mean the atami PK 13-14?

No silica?

Medium/Botanicare pure coco, Base/ H&G Aqua Flakes(adjust ppms to strain needs, I find once plant is established 800 ppms in veg thru flower is plenty), ADD/Botanicare Silica Blast weeks 1-5,ADD/ Rock Resinator weeks 2-6.5, ADD/Bud XL weeks 4-7, ADD/MOAB week 1 at .5
gram per gallon, weeks 5-6 1 gram per gallon and cut your rock resinator and base nutrients in half, ADD/Multizyn once plant is established once a week until week 3, ADD/CalMag veg thru week 6 if R.O. water is used

I don't know about the flakes, but cocos has plenty(12%) Ca, I've been adding Mg (epsoms) at .7g/gal with good results. No sign of a Ca or Mg deficiency.

Moab is good stuff...how do you like the resinator?

Forgot about silica, protekt@2-5ml /gal. Protekt is something I won't go without; it makes a huge difference stem strength and over all plant health.

Do you run the protekt the entire grow?

I know you are asking about additives outside of h&gs line, but I also have to mention that roots excel is a good one too that I use during veg, noticeable increase in root development...bigger roots= bigger shoots

The roots excelurator is GOOD stuff, just pricey. The ones I have the most doubts about are the amino treatment(anybody else's silica is like $40/gal, not $200/L) it seems to work, but no way does it warrant the price, it also will BURN your plants if you use even a little too much, the multizen(I don't see that it does anything), and the shooting powder(I hate foxtails).

Like you, I only use the roots excelurator in veg, that way a 1L bottle lasts quite awhile.

Thanks to everybody for sounding off, hopefully there will be more...

 

[Snow Crash]

Here are products I like to use that would fit in with the H&G ratio for coco

Kelp - Don't really have a favorite. General Organics BioWeed is a good value. Nitrozyme is a great product as well. A little bit goes a long way (2-3ml per gallon every 2-3 feedings during vegetative growth).

Silica - Again, really no favorites here and there's a lot of people on that bandwagon these days. Mad Farmer has a good one, Protekt and Pro-Silicate and also both quality. Just a little bit here also, 2-3ml per gallon is plenty.

Botanicare Liquid Karma - Stuff is magic. I really don't know how to put it. My plants grow faster, are healthier and happier, when they get LK. It's not too expensive, I run it at 7.5ml/gallon from the start through the stretch.

Cutting Edge Solutions Uncle John's Blend - A resin/oil/turpin enhancer. Stuff works as advertised. I start with it before flowering and run it clear to the flush. I'll burn through a gallon of this shit in flowering and not even use 1/2 liter of my base nutrient. Whatever though, bud is stickier and that's got value!

I also like to use a variety of PK boosters (GPW Dense, HCO Magnum, AN Big Bud Dry, Botan HydroPlex and CNS17 Ripe) But with your base program being so PK dominant already I think they would be overkill.

Fulvic Acid and Citric Acid are great pH down replacements in coco for traditional Phosphoric Acid based pH down.

 

[indabonga]

yes pk 13-14.
about the silica....i use it (silicon grow technology)with others nutes like conoisseur AN or floramicrobloom GHE..but with a+b h&g isn't necessary: i think h&g's lines already contains the potassium silicate needed to a plant.

 

[Ez Rider]

Here are products I like to use that would fit in with the H&G ratio for coco

Kelp - Don't really have a favorite. General Organics BioWeed is a good value. Nitrozyme is a great product as well. A little bit goes a long way (2-3ml per gallon every 2-3 feedings during vegetative growth).

Silica - Again, really no favorites here and there's a lot of people on that bandwagon these days. Mad Farmer has a good one, Protekt and Pro-Silicate and also both quality. Just a little bit here also, 2-3ml per gallon is plenty.

Botanicare Liquid Karma - Stuff is magic. I really don't know how to put it. My plants grow faster, are healthier and happier, when they get LK. It's not too expensive, I run it at 7.5ml/gallon from the start through the stretch.

Cutting Edge Solutions Uncle John's Blend - A resin/oil/turpin enhancer. Stuff works as advertised. I start with it before flowering and run it clear to the flush. I'll burn through a gallon of this shit in flowering and not even use 1/2 liter of my base nutrient. Whatever though, bud is stickier and that's got value!

I also like to use a variety of PK boosters (GPW Dense, HCO Magnum, AN Big Bud Dry, Botan HydroPlex and CNS17 Ripe) But with your base program being so PK dominant already I think they would be overkill.

Fulvic Acid and Citric Acid are great pH down replacements in coco for traditional Phosphoric Acid based pH down.

For ph up and down I use earthjuice ph crystals. One is 99.9% citric acid, the other is 99.9% potassium bicarbonate.

PK dominant? All the #'s look pretty low to me, please explain.

yes pk 13-14.
about the silica....i use it (silicon grow technology)with others nutes like conoisseur AN or floramicrobloom GHE..but with a+b h&g isn't necessary: i think h&g's lines already contains the potassium silicate needed to a plant.

What rate are you using that 13-14 at? Would you mind defining "amazing results"?

I see a noticeable difference when a silica product is used with h&g, just my experience though. Where do you stand on ca/mg? I have to use ro(my tap is 500-750ppm depending on the season). All the info I can get says that cocos is 12% Ca, so extra calcium shouldn't be needed.The Mg content is only .8%, so I do add Mg with epsom salt. Still working on an exact amount though. I'm using .7ml/gal now. What is your, or anyone else's thought on this?


Does anybody know what % of the epsoms is usable Mg?

 

[purplypurps]

just started using the resinator since Advanced discontinued their hammerhead, so far seems to be the same if not better than hammerhead. i had a run without either and it was highly disappointing!

 

[Snow Crash]

For ph up and down I use earthjuice ph crystals. One is 99.9% citric acid, the other is 99.9% potassium bicarbonate.

PK dominant? All the #'s look pretty low to me, please explain.

Does anybody know what % of the epsoms is usable Mg?

H&G Coco used to be labeled 5.4-3.4-9.4, but they got in trouble for not actually containing those minimums, and had to change their labels. So now they are "rebelling" and put outrageously low numbers so they can guarantee the minimum analysis. I guess they aren't so Phosphorus dominant, just Potassium, especially compared to CANNA Coco's 5-4-3 ratio.

Don't get me started on House and Garden, I think they are super shady.

Epsom is 9.8% Magnesium

Every 1/8 tsp per gallon will net you 12-16ppm increase of Mg.

 

[indabonga]

What rate are you using that 13-14 at? Would you mind defining "amazing results"?[/QUOTE]
8/10 ml x 10l of water with atami pk13-14.
..i've win the italian cup a pair of years ago with this diet...2° ifrane....3° dr.penthotal...

 

[Cereals]

I've been using only Cocos A+B base at the recommended HEAVY feeding schedule. I don't pH or even check the pH of my water anymore either. Yay I'm lazy, but it works well. I also bottom-feed.

 

[otis33]

I add Epsom@1tsp/5gal which is close to your door of.7g/gal and I do run silica the entire grow.

 

[otis33]

I bought a bottle of hydroplex and was wondering, should I stop the hydroplex before starting moab, or use both and adjust the ec accordingly

 

[Snow Crash]

You can use both and adjust accordingly, but don't go over more than maybe 2ml/gallon of the Hydroplex. I use Hydroplex as a PK replacement for Cannazym 0-2-1. At 0-10-6 it's 5x the concentration for a lower price (minus the enzymes of course). I use it from day 1 flower through day 35 flower, typically in combination with other supplements at levels much lower than their suggested rates.

When mixing supplements it's good to understand what you're adding to your solution and how it will impact the nutrient ratios. A quick method is to take the ml or grams per gallon you are adding, multiply that by the percentage on the bottle (as a whole number) and multiply that outcome by the "constant" of 2.654. This will give you a pretty good estimate of what you're adding. "P" as labeled is actually P2O4 so you have to do another calculation to remove the Oxygen, multiply the final ppm by 0.43 and that will give you the actually Phosphorus estimate. "K" is similar, listed as K2O multiply by 0.83 to get that estimate.

So for Hydroplex 0-10-6...
2ml per gallon
P = 2*10*2.654*0.43 = 22.82ppm
K = 2*6*2.654*0.84 = 26.75ppm

23ppm or so of Phosphorus, in many nutrient programs, is a significant increase to that element in relation to other elements. Don't overdo the MOAB or you'll have problems with that.

 

[unregistered190]

When mixing supplements it's good to understand what you're adding to your solution and how it will impact the nutrient ratios. A quick method is to take the ml or grams per gallon you are adding, multiply that by the percentage on the bottle (as a whole number) and multiply that outcome by the "constant" of 2.654. This will give you a pretty good estimate of what you're adding. "P" as labeled is actually P2O4 so you have to do another calculation to remove the Oxygen, multiply the final ppm by 0.43 and that will give you the actually Phosphorus estimate. "K" is similar, listed as K2O multiply by 0.83 to get that estimate.

So for Hydroplex 0-10-6...
2ml per gallon
P = 2*10*2.654*0.43 = 22.82ppm
K = 2*6*2.654*0.84 = 26.75ppm

23ppm or so of Phosphorus, in many nutrient programs, is a significant increase to that element in relation to other elements. Don't overdo the MOAB or you'll have problems with that.

Thanks for that info......cool. So for the N part? Just multiply by 2.654?

 

[Ez Rider]

H&G Coco used to be labeled 5.4-3.4-9.4, but they got in trouble for not actually containing those minimums, and had to change their labels. So now they are "rebelling" and put outrageously low numbers so they can guarantee the minimum analysis. I guess they aren't so Phosphorus dominant, just Potassium, especially compared to CANNA Coco's 5-4-3 ratio.

Don't get me started on House and Garden, I think they are super shady.

I think I just ran into a phosphorous deficiency from running the base too low(6ml/gal).Just out of curiosity, how is h&g any more/less "shady" than say AN?

I add Epsom@1tsp/5gal which is close to your door of.7g/gal and I do run silica the entire grow.

I'm seriously considering ditching the amino treatment, and just running protekt for the next run. I just haven't seen the overall results to justify the amino's price, and for silicate purposes, I've seen better results from the cheap stuff like protekt and silicashield.

You said you didn't have any problems running 6ml/gal of base, correct? I've been running 6/ml and now in mid-flower, I'm seeing what looks like a P deficiency. The local h&g whisperer says I'm running the base to low. He says I need to bump it up to 8 or 9ml(for mid flower). No, he doesn't work for or own the hydro store.

FWIW, when I called the h&g support line, they said pretty much the same thing.