is this how you breed quality genetics?

[CrazyKoala]

Here's a more practical question. Say for a line like chemdog IBL, what kind of main cola size shrinkage can one expect going from original seedstock to S1, S2, S3, etc.? How about loss of potency? Would speed of vegetative growth also slow and if so how much?

Same question for a F1 or a polyhybrid. I would expect more of a loss of heterosis on the hybrids on the logic that the highly inbred line already exhibits a lack of heterosis.

Finally, is heterosis/hybrid-vigor technically anti-thetical to inbreeding depression in terms of definition? That is, is "loss of inbreeding depression" definitionally equivalent to an "increase in heterosis" or is there a nuanced distinction to make those phrases not exactly interchangable, just similar? Just making sure I'm not talking like a crazy koala here.

This koala needs a nap in the eucalyptus trees. Too many hours running programs and on this forum!

 

[bh4vn35h]

nice thread

 

[stickshift]

Mr. Californicus, I'm reading f=2h-1, that is h as the chance of homozygosis (1 being 100%). That would mean F is designed to run between 0 and 1 not 0.5 and 1, is this correct or are there multiple conventions? I'm thinking h = 0.5 indicates heterozygosity, 1 perfect homozygousity correlating to F=0 and F=1 respectively. This all assumes no unpaired genes whatever that is called, and the mutant genes whatever that is called (like red, black and two greens on a roulette table!).

Whilst I'm not Mr.Californicus, I think the Allard ref is using the inbreeding coefficient as in F = Σ(1/2)n+1 where n is 0 in regard to selfing, therefore F is .5 in regard to selfing as the start point. But even using a revised Falcaner type formula like above and assuming h is 0.75 due to a recurrence equation, you will get .5 I think!!

 

[Dr. Purpur]

Bumpity bump bump

 

[supermanlives]

good reading.all I can say is 9/10 breeders aint doing their job. do your research. I bought so many seeds and was disappointed so many times. ya I am picky but not thatmuch

 

[bambi]

The great seed swindle.

The great seed swindle.

Rather good point the thread maker has given us about the state of things amongst the seed markets everywhere these days!

I think finding good quality stable seeds now days is almost becoming a thing of the past, just too many non bred seeds going out by growers interested in breeding but cut all the corners when it comes to breeding in general, make fem only seeds, clone only this or that and so on,

How many older commercial seed banks are still running today with all there original stock, not many, I can think of one or two like mr nice, infact making seeds like shantibaba does is basically how it should be done by any up and coming breeders about,

Meaning a breeder with atleast 10 yrs experience is to come to terms with having to get into Selective breeding indoors I speak of especially, to make a reasonably good plant indoors I think the way to go is with line breeding, using one male at a time or test,

To grow out at least 100 - 150 seeds inside so we end up with about 60 or more females to choose from, and perhaps a small 5 female test before the bigger one like I do, sneak peak kinda thing''

Then of course were still using selective breeding for the clones we took 6 off of each seed female prior, and same for the male clones,

finding the best male clone to further a generation is most important for new breeders to grasp onto, gotta get to no them boys as well as the girls after all, using the most simple basic steps can make a really good plant,
many of the best old school plants were proper f/1's in there day, super skunk one of, a good amount of variation in f/1's like this, thinking you need a f/6 or ibl this or that to make a stable line is just not nesesary like many starting out seem to ponder over,

I also think finding a good keeper or two should come out of a single pkt of ten seeds, or at least one keeper type should be in it, ive read some guys buying 50 seeds to find one keeper plant, lol this is just not cricket at all is it, no'

When I was new to breeding it was 12-14 yrs ago and only good quality genetic seed in regular form were about, online seed vendors gave out great free seed back then to, commercial selective breeding indoors had really taken off by the year 2000, but shit happens to the best of us and many a good plant varietys were lost, most due to police busts, and the breeder having no back up's to keep the strain going, - so just keep creating good hybrids or whatever right, ! ?

Yet not a lot of great new varietys have ever been created by the old boys since, again I can only think of one such breeders bank from that era still making the great ones, fortunately there are a handful of outstanding newer breeders come to light in the past 5 yrs also,

But theres a lot of seagull types around also, picking off the breeders creation to further there own dishonestly, no such thing as breeders rights when it comes to marijuana seed though, not quite yet,

As for science,,, science in my head, your head full of experience is all that's really needed to make quality shit, a good grower breeder just knows hes got a high cbd plant and or thc, a lot of things like this really have no need to be tested further than percentages and ratio's to see exactly whats what, going all scientific to early in the game of breeding is merely making things complicated, unless your a nerdy looking type like those at dna genetics; forget about it..

thanks and buds speed all.. b

 

[ProvisionSeeds]

Every breeder has there own opinion of whats the perfect pheno they are looking for. Might not be the same as everyone else.

 

[TerpeneTom]

So...

Can anyone suggest some honest and well respected breeders?

Also, given my space constraints, I am growing Feminized seeds. Are S1 seeds inherently inferior to regular seeds? I know there is more to this question, pertaining to the breeding practices and such, but could someone provide a response in layman's terms?

I need to know if it would really provide significant relative benefit to invest a greater amount of resources and time to pop a pack of 10 regular seeds.

Appreciated.

 

[TerpeneTom]

.

 

[Tonygreen]

Honest breeders? BOG, Tom Hill, ojd, just a few I know of and trust from results.

 

[Hold Your Fire]

Without getting into a mud slinging match over breeders, if your looking for femmed seeds, OG Raskal, has some of the best seed strains going right now. His WiFi is top notch stuff.

Hard as hell, almost impossible, to find tho'.

I've had good results with 2-3 femmed strains from DNA also.


Never grown them but Ace would also be on my list.

Many breeders, Tom Hill, Shanti, Sam, Chimera, BOG, etc., don't offer fems. Must be a reason

 

[Tonygreen]

I do know if you dont test the shit you fem really well the hermies can explode in the s generations.

Be surprised how much "solid" shit will herm easily.

 

[Dr. Purpur]

Gorilla Glue was a product of Chem Sis herming and knocking up Sour dub. That cross Hermed and knocked up Chocolate Diesel.
You've probably seen the outcome.

Hermies can be a total nightmare, or an unexpected blessing in disguise.

 

[Dr. Purpur]

I've completed around 200 crosses. Almost all are standard seeds.
I have lost a few wonderful mothers over the years, and regret not making S1s of those.

It's a lot of work to find a top shelf male, and even more work to keep it around

 

[TerpeneTom]

Thanks for the responses!

I'll look with significant interest into OG Raskal genetics, although they do seem difficult to source currently.

I'm hoping to source genetically stable strains that guaranteed express the marketed characteristics, as I personally do not posses the necessary space to select for phenotypes, at least in the present. Nor am I able to purchase clones from a reputable and reliable source.

 

[Hold Your Fire]

Thanks for the responses!

I'll look with significant interest into OG Raskal genetics, although they do seem difficult to source currently.

I'm hoping to source genetically stable strains that guaranteed express the marketed characteristics, as I personally do not posses the necessary space to select for phenotypes, at least in the present. Nor am I able to purchase clones from a reputable and reliable source.

Don't sleep on his other stuff.

VenturaHwy has grown many of his strains, including WiFi, and I'm pretty sure he said White Master was his favorite. (at the Bay right now, fwiw)

Check it out.....great thread by VenturaHwy!
https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=249573


I'm guessing most folks would be more than happy growing many of his strains.

That's why I'll soon be popping my freebie pack of Fire Alien Kush.

That is unless my WiFi cloning attempts go better.

Man, I can't seem to get this strain to root.

 

[MiMedGuy]

I love OGRaskal White Romulan Fems.

 

[Hold Your Fire]

I love OGRaskal White Romulan Fems.

View Image View Image View Image View Image

Sic pics! Those look fantastic!

 

[Dr. Purpur]

Here is a cross I did

Here is a cross I did

It utilizes the Original cut of OG Kush, and has a Mango Haze Dad. It is an OG Dominant.

 

[PWF]

hmmm

GG stop trolling PNW... you are babbling...

bab·ble (bView ImagebView ImageView Imagel)v. bab·bled, bab·bling, bab·bles
v.intr.1. To utter a meaningless confusion of words or sounds: Babies babble before they can talk.
2. To talk foolishly or idly; chatter: "In 1977 [he] was thought of as crazy because he was babbling about supply side" (Newt Gingrich).
3. To make a continuous low, murmuring sound, as flowing water.

v.tr.1. To utter rapidly and indistinctly.
2. To blurt out impulsively; disclose without careful consideration.

n.1. Inarticulate or meaningless talk or sounds.
2. Idle or foolish talk; chatter.
3. A continuous low, murmuring sound, as of flowing water.