Terpene profile: Sinsemilla v.s. seeded

[pinkus]

Thanks for the response. I'm really glad to be reading your posts these days... you've already gone though soooo much chaff it's like sensi-knowlege!!! look ma no seeds!

DJ has the mystical/shamanic side of cannabis covered I can't argue with his plants or your knowledge so I won't.

Now if Mel Frank would just start a site...

 

[Tonygreen]

People need to stop fucking with the legends like sam and tom hill around here, you guys take alot of shit at times, I appreciate your posts greatly as well sam.

 

[3rdEye]

To further shore up what sam skunkman said Ornamental look into R. Mechoulam's research on "entourage" effect if you want more "official" documentation on terpene and other VOC's and how they modulate hightype. Thanks for sharing your experiences and observations.

 

[Only Ornamental]

To further shore up what sam skunkman said Ornamental look into R. Mechoulam's research on "entourage" effect if you want more "official" documentation on terpene and other VOC's and how they modulate hightype. Thanks for sharing your experiences and observations.

You don't happen to have a link by any chance? Cause I could only find publications about entourage effects of endocannabinoids and all his great research on synthetic and endogenous cannabinoids, CBD, CB receptors etc blabla... I looked it up on pubmed, sciencedirect and researchgate; can't search with scifinder right now.

Anyway, I'm not (at least not in this thread) after the how and why of THC trip modulators; although, I truly appreciate all the insights of Sam et al. even if a bit OT (it's always interesting, especially the unpublished parts ).

I do have a question for you 3rdEye and also for Tonygreen concerning his statement: [quote]People need to stop fucking with the legends[/quote]. What exactly do you mean with that? Sounds to me like you two think I don't take Sam seriously... Well, English is not my native language and that's why I ask. It's always better to clean up misunderstandings before calling someone a troll *g*.

 

[Only Ornamental]

Back to topic:
Concerning localised flowering: no objections there.

I would also prefer if seeds had only localised effects...
I may well be wrong, but I think to remember that I've read somewhere (now that sounds reliable LoL) that pollination and/or seed formation affects the whole cannabis plant. There are many different pathways and effects within plants (and animals etc.); some are localised, others generalised or follow the xylem/phloem and subsequently affect only leaves 'on the same vessel' etc. Not sure how it's called in plant physiology but in animals it would for example be called auto-, juxta-, para-, and endocrine signalling. It may well be that light and ethylene have principally localised effects whereas 'seed-hormone XY' travels far...
You see, I do have a considerable lacuna in that field and I'm glad if someone fills it up.

 

[Tonygreen]

Hey Only Ornamental, I was not directing that at you, it was an esoteric statement. More like wow what a great thread that is not being completely trashed by trolling.

This thread is much more constructive than some other threads I have seen where it has gotten pretty nasty. Anytime people decide to share any of their thoughts knowledge or experiences I consider it a privilege. I have seen some pretty nasty stuff though aimed at guys like dj, sam, tom, and many other "legends", thats what I call em out of respect for their contributions to the world wide cannabis movement.

Cheers bud hope that made sense!

 

[Only Ornamental]

Hi Tony

 

[3rdEye]

sorry about the misleading statement on Mechoulam Ornamental. I should pay a bit more attention to topic of discussion. I am no troll Far from it. I am enjoying this discussion quite a bit.

 

[Only Ornamental]

Ah, in that case

 

[shaggyballs]

@ Only Ornamental

Your English is very well received and understood!
Even by someone without a background in science.
Your personality is friendly but as you said occasionally sarcastic, never rude or disrespectful.
It is good to talk to you.
Thank you again for all your help.
shag

Now back on topic.

 

[Madjag]

Whoa...what planet?

 

[Only Ornamental]

Whoa...what planet?

Mars... or was it Venus?
But you don't have, apart from a mad jag, nothing helpful to contribute, have you?

And that's what happens when the mods remove the 'not helpful' button .

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So; has anyone ever seeded only a branch? Did the rest of the plant go on growing/flowering sinsemilla-style or did it stop like everything were pollinated? Any observations concerning smell/taste/trip of the seeded v.s. the non-seeded branches?

 

[Madjag]

Yep. I did two branches on two entirely different plant strains this last outdoor season.

Both stayed perfectly sinsemilla on the rest of the plant and the seeded branches yielded only about 15-20 seeds. The branches chosen for pollination were lower branches and were brush pollinated by hand. 4-6 weeks and the seeds were beautiful.

I didn't smoke the seeded branch material. Too little left after seed separation, lots of used seed bracts mixed in as well. Next year I'll grow the actual plants and test it properly.

The remainder of these two plants tests equal to the same strains grown entirely as sinsemilla. No noticeable flavor or potency difference. Perhaps if one seeded half of a plant the results would change....or maybe 3/4 of the plant.

 

[Only Ornamental]

OK, 15-20 seeds isn't much...
How big were your plants? I suppose it makes a difference if it's a small lowryder or a tree sized ganja plant...
Would be nice (at least for me) to know where the threshold is (if there's one).

 

[midwestkid]

Good read with minimal mud-slinging!

 

[shaggyballs]

Good read with minimal mud-slinging!

 

[non]

Yet to be proven? To whom, you? Ask anyone that has tried terpene's like me.
The reason I know about the effects terpenes have in modulating the high is simple. I smoked 100% pure THC maybe 15 years ago, and found the high lacking, as RCC said if this was the Cannabis high he would not bother to smoke Cannabis. Anyway I then put the same total weight as the pure THC but this time I added some of my dry sift, (which is terpene rich), 1/2 of the same weight. The effects were obvious to all who tried the tests, maybe a dozen serious smokers like me and RCC.
The same weight gave much much better high, even though the THC levels were lower in the 100% pure THC/resin maybe 50% THC mix. That made me feel that I was right about my feelings that terpenes help modify the effects of THC.
I then got the 100% pure THC and mixed in just a very tiny amount of a terpene, I tried the top 12 and found several that made THC stronger and some like Myrcene made the THC high more narcotic, couchlock, stronger then 100% pure THC. Some like limonene contribute to the up , clear, speedy, psychadelic effects.
This was confirmed by an organolepctic test of 100 questions before and after the tests which were for one THC/terpene combo a day. The testing was double blind.
Every single smoker was in general agreement abut the modulation of the THC.

hi sam

you mentioned this double blind test in another thread also. i tried to re-read your posts but couldn't find the exact amounts of terpenes used in given doses which were 25mg total unless i missread.

now this stuff goes over my head, but my buddy would value this detail if possible, thanks.

 

[TanzanianMagic]

The same strain full of seeds will not taste as good or be as potent as the not pollinated version.
This I have seen for myself!!!!
Take some bag weed , find the bud with the most seeds , then find one with none at all.
Both buds should be approximately the same shape and size.
Roll one of each ......I bet you could tell the difference blindfolded.

Can't say that from my experience... Additionally, most imported hash and charas comes from seeded plants. If there'd be such a difference, people would probably go for sinsemilla production.

The thing with hash is that it is is almost impossible to keep male and hermie plants out of a large crop, let alone when everyone around is also growing with male and hermie plants. That's basically the situation when you're talking about Morocco, Lebanon, etc. whereever you have a very large outdoor grow.

I'm sure weed back the the 60s and 70s had seeds in them, even the Thai Stick, Panama Red, etc.

In fact I've smoked Jamaica brickweed, which had viable seeds in them. However, if you find a piece with red hairs, that is the most powerful stuff you'll smoke that you haven't grown yourself. Maybe the Jamaican sun is just more powerful.

I guess my point is that it is almost impossible to find Thai weed, Columbian weed, that doesn't have seeds in them, and yet they can be very strong.

 

[Sam_Skunkman]

I spiked them with the smallest amount I could, I did not weigh it as each terpene was a bit different in viscosity and therefore weights.
It may well have been more then herbal Cannabis has in ratio to THC, I did not care because I figured that would just make any moderation of the THC even more pronounced.
You can see on the WWW what percentages of terpenes Cannabis has, if the info is important to you. If I remember the yield of sinsemilla essential oil amounted to approximately 2 liter/ton fresh weight, which corresponds to about 20 liters per hectare. But this is fresh plants dry will yield much more because the plant weight is so much less.
For example .05 to .29% (v/w) volume/weight to .6 after a week of drying not sure if this was seeded or not.
With drying the total loss of terpenes during drying can be as much as 1/3. But that said dry Cannabis does have a higher % of terpenes by weight then wet plants have because of the water that wet plants also contain.
-SamS

hi sam

you mentioned this double blind test in another thread also. i tried to re-read your posts but couldn't find the exact amounts of terpenes used in given doses which were 25mg total unless i missread.

now this stuff goes over my head, but my buddy would value this detail if possible, thanks.

 

[Apache Kush]

I got in a argument about this...

I was saying during a recent triming session,

''getting the hermie seeds out of the GDP and shit we were trimming was not only good for ''bag appeal'' but I argued that any seed left in the buds would make it taste like shit.''

One of the guy said ''Nope that just a rumor/urban legend''. He seemed cocksure about it too.
He claimed he hearded that seeds in your bud or DO NOT effect the flavor of said buds.

So yes or no? Thx just read this whole thread and Im not seeing a consensous here..
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Also, I can speak to the idea of a organism putting its energy in reproductive organs verus not having to do that.

In trout farming/aqua culture the biologist discovered... if they raised/bred trout without gonads (reproductive organs) they would mature faster and grow bigger. There called tripoloids ( do a goggle if you wish). Anyways, trout that dont have gonads grow faster and bigger becuase they don't waste calories and energy on gonads, instead all said energy goes into getting bigger sooner.

^ This is a great example and might explain higher yeilds in SENSI...wow mind blown