Gavitas = nutrient deficiencies?

[Budsworth]

I posted this in the nutrient subforum as well...as I figure this could go in either forum.

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Now...I was told by a lighting guy inside the industry (Sunlight Supplies guy) that those double ended bulbs would make my plants eat more....regardless of the nutrient line.

So, we're doing our first run under 8 Gavitas...and our first run with Kind (I know...too many changes...but Botanicare sponsored this run so the offer of "free" convinced to go ahead and make the Kind run this time). The Botanicare rep told me NO extra Cal-mag. The Cal-mag is in the base, bloom and grow.

I talked to him again a couple weeks ago. I asked him if it was okay to add extra cal-mag. He again said, "No...do NOT add extra cal-mag".


Well...sunlight supply lighting guy was right. Plants look deficient in calcium, magnesium, and phosphorous.

So we said fuck it. We added 3ml of extra cal/mag per gallon with three plants in the room starting two days ago.

And darned if they aren't starting to look better.


So is anybody else experiencing deficiencies under these Double Ended bulbs? I'm on day 30, and now running a solution far hotter than I've ever run. Generally use the ppm setting on my Hanna meter. PPMs are off the chart. Had to switch to EC. Running at 3.0 (about 2100 ppms) and other than the ones getting extra cal/mag they all look like they want more. No tip burning. Just leaves standing straight up pointed right at the lights with deficiencies at the bottom. [/FONT]

 

[Coconutz]

Probably more like lockout!
3.0? LOL! Thats more than twice the amount I feed in coco
What were you running your EC at before you bumped it?
What type of system? Hydro/coco?
Im feeding about 1.2-1.5ec with no calmag, under a bunch of lights. 1 being a gavita. No difference in feed.
Im sealed with co2.
If I fed my plants 3.0 they would probably burn to a crisp, too
There should be no deficiencies with a base nute like PBP. Especially not every single macro when you are feeding heavy!
The directions on the bottle are for 2.0ec or something if I remember correctly, but even thats insanely high for most systems

 

[Bill Bellamy]

First run with Gavita, major yellowing around day 21 when we flipped them to 1k on the dial.. Gonna feed them more this round and see how it goes..

 

[Coconutz]

You guys sure you have about 30-36" distance from the light?
These lights are designed to light rooms. I wouldnt put them right on top of a table or anything...

 

[Bill Bellamy]

yes they are 36" or more away from the plants.. They are super powerful lights, you just gotta get them dialed in and then you are rocking.. My first run ( the one mentioned above) is coming down in a few days and it put out crazy huge colas, even with the yellowing

 

[Budsworth]

You guys sure you have about 30-36" distance from the light?
These lights are designed to light rooms. I wouldnt put them right on top of a table or anything...

36". 8 of them though.

I'm in coco. And I have flushed them well several times.

I was told by several people to expect them to eat boatloads. And not hanyacks. People that know grow lighting.

We've added some extra cal-mag on a few, and the problem seems to be slowing.

And yes. Hot as hell. No nute crispies. Leaves on top of the plants are green and pointed straight up screaming, "GIVE US MORE!!!".

I'm digging these lights. It definitely feels like you're teetering on the edge. Going to have to figure out what kind of diet they like under these monsters.

Here's a shot empty when I first finished:

 

[Coconutz]

technically the leaves should be flat when they are happy. Thats the most efficient postition for them.
When mine get a bit too close they start pointing up so that less leaf surface is absorbing light...
I have 1 strain that I just got and found it it stretches for 4 weeks...oops got too tall and its the only plant in the room with the leaves pointing up.
I only feed my plants 1.2ec and my room is about 50wps

 

[themills]

I posted this in the nutrient subforum as well...as I figure this could go in either forum.

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Now...I was told by a lighting guy inside the industry (Sunlight Supplies guy) that those double ended bulbs would make my plants eat more....regardless of the nutrient line.

So, we're doing our first run under 8 Gavitas...and our first run with Kind (I know...too many changes...but Botanicare sponsored this run so the offer of "free" convinced to go ahead and make the Kind run this time). The Botanicare rep told me NO extra Cal-mag. The Cal-mag is in the base, bloom and grow.

I talked to him again a couple weeks ago. I asked him if it was okay to add extra cal-mag. He again said, "No...do NOT add extra cal-mag".


Well...sunlight supply lighting guy was right. Plants look deficient in calcium, magnesium, and phosphorous.

So we said fuck it. We added 3ml of extra cal/mag per gallon with three plants in the room starting two days ago.

And darned if they aren't starting to look better.


So is anybody else experiencing deficiencies under these Double Ended bulbs? I'm on day 30, and now running a solution far hotter than I've ever run. Generally use the ppm setting on my Hanna meter. PPMs are off the chart. Had to switch to EC. Running at 3.0 (about 2100 ppms) and other than the ones getting extra cal/mag they all look like they want more. No tip burning. Just leaves standing straight up pointed right at the lights with deficiencies at the bottom. [/FONT]

Been running Gavita's for over a year, and yes plants will absolutely eat more while under the more intense lighting just as they would/could eat even more if they were in full sun.

I also have experience using the KIND line. When initially using it I did see a slight Calcium deficiency however after upping the Base formula 2ml it disappeared. This is my understanding of how it works, more base = more nitrogen and calcium.

From what you describe It sounds like your deficiency 'starting at the bottom' is really more of a nitrogen and calcium issue imo.

Either way, your PPMS/EC is not unheard of and if your plants are hungry feed them more. Not EVERY PPM your meter reads is purely a mineral/salt. It is also reading any element or input that can be dissolved into ionic form such as aminos acids, trace minerals, and other all sorts of other things.

Your plants will tell you what they need more so than any meter can!

 

[BredForMeds]

it makes total sense that plants would eat more.. because there getting more light.. so they are going to start with more nutes.. then growth will explode..

I was told these are amazing.. I cant wait to get some money together.. so I can buy a few.

 

[Budsworth]

Been running Gavita's for over a year, and yes plants will absolutely eat more while under the more intense lighting just as they would/could eat even more if they were in full sun.

I also have experience using the KIND line. When initially using it I did see a slight Calcium deficiency however after upping the Base formula 2ml it disappeared. This is my understanding of how it works, more base = more nitrogen and calcium.

From what you describe It sounds like your deficiency 'starting at the bottom' is really more of a nitrogen and calcium issue imo.

Either way, your PPMS/EC is not unheard of and if your plants are hungry feed them more. Not EVERY PPM your meter reads is purely a mineral/salt. It is also reading any element or input that can be dissolved into ionic form such as aminos acids, trace minerals, and other all sorts of other things.

Your plants will tell you what they need more so than any meter can!

Fantastic, Mills. Thank you very much.

I broke my first rule:

Don't change too much at once.

New room. New nutrients. New type of lighting. Next round we're installing a 4ton AC.

I have never changed so much at once. Knew there would be issues. Everything looks great all things considered.

But it's all in the name of progress.

 

[Budsworth]

Probably more like lockout!
3.0? LOL! Thats more than twice the amount I feed in coco
What were you running your EC at before you bumped it?
What type of system? Hydro/coco?
Im feeding about 1.2-1.5ec with no calmag, under a bunch of lights. 1 being a gavita. No difference in feed.
Im sealed with co2.
If I fed my plants 3.0 they would probably burn to a crisp, too
There should be no deficiencies with a base nute like PBP. Especially not every single macro when you are feeding heavy!
The directions on the bottle are for 2.0ec or something if I remember correctly, but even thats insanely high for most systems

You guys sure you have about 30-36" distance from the light?
These lights are designed to light rooms. I wouldnt put them right on top of a table or anything...

technically the leaves should be flat when they are happy. Thats the most efficient postition for them.
When mine get a bit too close they start pointing up so that less leaf surface is absorbing light...
I have 1 strain that I just got and found it it stretches for 4 weeks...oops got too tall and its the only plant in the room with the leaves pointing up.
I only feed my plants 1.2ec and my room is about 50wps

This friggin' guy.

 

[organiclover]

are you using RO ?
what ppm is your starting point if using city water?

 

[Budsworth]

are you using RO ?
what ppm is your starting point if using city water?

No. Probably the round after next. PPM out of faucet is 200-250.

 

[Luther Burbank]

Really? Botanicare "Kind"? I know naming products with potslang is the new thing, see VermiFire soil, but it's Kine, not Kind. Non sequitur I know.

 

[Budsworth]

Really? Botanicare "Kind"? I know naming products with potslang is the new thing, see VermiFire soil, but it's Kine, not Kind. Non sequitur I know.

If you're talking about the product line from Botanicare...it's Kind. I'm 100% positive. I own a grow store, I'm looking at the line in front of me on the shelf, and botanicare sponsored our round (gave me 5 gals each of Bloom, Grow, Base and Pure Blend Tea...if anybody wants to know the recipe that Botanicare guy recommended, feel free to ask)...I've been talking about the "Kind" line with their main sales rep for the last 90 days.

Haven't talked to him in a couple of weeks. But I look forward to bringing up this deficiency under gavitas with him.

 

[Luther Burbank]

No I'm saying they got it wrong. They're trying to reference the phrase "kine bud", but mainlanders always het it wrong and say "kind bud". Maybe it's a coincidence but with all the brand names relating to weed slang lately it seems too coincidental.

 

[tduby]

If you're talking about the product line from Botanicare...it's Kind. I'm 100% positive. I own a grow store, I'm looking at the line in front of me on the shelf, and botanicare sponsored our round (gave me 5 gals each of Bloom, Grow, Base and Pure Blend Tea...if anybody wants to know the recipe that Botanicare guy recommended, feel free to ask)...I've been talking about the "Kind" line with their main sales rep for the last 90 days.

Haven't talked to him in a couple of weeks. But I look forward to bringing up this deficiency under gavitas with him.

I'd love to see is special recipe

 

[Budsworth]

I'd love to see is special recipe

Simple...the Bloom, Grow, and Base of course. Then use Pure Blend Tea. He uses 5-10ml/gal...and insists on using it through flush. Counter intuitive to what I always learned, but it's his recipe and he's worked closely with their lines for years.

He uses Sweet Raw....and Bloombastic. That's it.

My first run with it.

 

[Gardens Keeper]

I am running three 600w gavitas and I've had problems for 2 months first 99 seedling 50% had to be replanted and were killed had the light 2 1/2 feet away. Raised it to 3 feet get slow growth still but improved and lots of deficiencies still evident but more minor. Mag, cal, and phos. They look better now but not perfect and I like perfect plants. I can't figure this shit out what the hell is high enough for these plants really scared to flower under these things. I'd take my old lights back any time to be honest. Hopefully I can get these figured out though.

 

[Budsworth]

I am running three 600w gavitas and I've had problems for 2 months first 99 seedling 50% had to be replanted and were killed had the light 2 1/2 feet away. Raised it to 3 feet get slow growth still but improved and lots of deficiencies still evident but more minor. Mag, cal, and phos. They look better now but not perfect and I like perfect plants. I can't figure this shit out what the hell is high enough for these plants really scared to flower under these things. I'd take my old lights back any time to be honest. Hopefully I can get these figured out though.

We upped the Base by 2 ml. It's seems to have stopped the issue from advancing. My flowers look amazing under these lights. Strains I've grown for years are more frosty than I ever recall them being.