DTW Coco- Learning by doing - 600HPS multi strain SCROG

[Coconutz]

Look Bro I don't know who made YOU the all mighty book on cannabis growing, but don't disrespect me and come on somebody's thread who I'm trying to help, and flat out tell me...

Untrue.

Fuck that!

This is my opinion, from personal experiences.

I'm not the type of person that jumps into people's threads and feeds them bullshit information that I've read or heard from some other source.

First off, IMO, he shouldn't be spraying anything on his plants, its never good practice. Unless he's one of those creepy foliar feeding fuckers. Lol


I'm not here to argue about exact ph.

For one I NEVER said 5.0... Or anything below 5.5

I run my garden indoor coco DTW on ph 5.5-6.0 with excellent results. And the balls to back it.


My outdoor in coco/potting soil mix I run around 6.0-6.2.
Outdoor is the one situation I would, and have, applied preventive maintenance sprays.

For me it doesn't make sense to spray anything outside of those ph ranges.

Plants absorb the water in the sprays and if its outside of what your normally feeding your plants will suffer.... Your throwing the whole balance of your garden off. Gardening is about consistency and flow. Once you master that quality will increase.


The real root of the PM needs to be addressed and his entire op needs to be properly sanitized, and dryer out.


Then air flow and humidity control needs to be focussed on.

I mean to say what I said is, not true is a little extreme. You don't know what I've experienced. We're all just trying to help eachother reach our common goals.

Actually... who the fuck made you the guru, bitch?
Im allowed to share my experience and knowledge from research, too!
This isnt your thread. This is a community where people share information.
You have the right to say what you think is right, and so do I.
I didnt attack you, you attacked me.
I can back up what I posted with facts. Theres no need to attack anyone.
Have you actually ever read the foliar directions on any products?
Q: Do I need to adjust the pH of the final mix before I spray my plants?
A: No you should never adjust the pH of any Dutch Master foliar sprays. You will notice that the pH of LIQUID LIGHT and Gold SATURATOR when mixed is quite high (between 8 – 10 pH). This is how we have formulated the products to work most efficiently for the best yields possible.

The leaves dont care about PH, but PM and mold hate alkaline environments!

 

[Sleeper7784]

Actually... who the fuck made you the guru, bitch?
Im allowed to share my experience and knowledge from research, too!
This isnt your thread. This is a community where people share information.
You have the right to say what you think is right, and so do I.
I didnt attack you, you attacked me.
I can back up what I posted with facts. Theres no need to attack anyone.
Have you actually ever read the foliar directions on any products?
Q: Do I need to adjust the pH of the final mix before I spray my plants?
A: No you should never adjust the pH of any Dutch Master foliar sprays. You will notice that the pH of LIQUID LIGHT and Gold SATURATOR when mixed is quite high (between 8 – 10 pH). This is how we have formulated the products to work most efficiently for the best yields possible.

The leaves dont care about PH, but PM and mold hate alkaline environments!

I'm not attacking you. Merely defending myself.

As a matter of fact a large # of nutrient foliar programs don't specify ph ranges.

And as for dutch master, it also says to apply with lights on, which really goes against anybody else's directions.

But your talking about nutrients.
Not fungicides.

That shit comes in extremely outta range ph levels sometimes. Sometimes high acidic, sometimes high alkaline, And I've seen some extreme foliar damage from
them.

Acidic is obviously the biggest problem, so I don't see how me advising him to ph adjust his sprays is so "untrue".

There is actually a debate about ph adjusting sprays but it all basically agrees that if you do spray anything ph between 5.5 and 7.0 is optimal.


I respect your experience, but feel like you disrespected mine,by calling me a liar. This is a subject that doesn't have 100% facts, or at least that I've yet to find.

I'm always open for debate, that's how we learn and expand our knowledge.

 

[Sleeper7784]

Greenops, hows the stretch winding down for you? Any more issues with PM? What's your thoughts on straight coir so far?

 

[greenops]

Day 56 / Day 22 12/12 / Day 7 Bloom

Sorry for the delay peeps. In the past week I've been going back and forth, contemplating if I should take this grow down or finish it, as I was worried a.f. about the toxins I sprayed on the plants and the residue that will remain by harvest time. A helpful ICMAG member with background in chemistry said that although it's far from ideal to spray that shit, it may just be as safe consuming this than any other commercial buds on the streets. Having smoked countless amount from unknown sources I said fuck it, I'll finish this.

I actually start the count of the flowering phase once I notice a small bush of pistils, not at the first sign of pistils. So this time i felt it took a lil bit longer after the switch til they started to bloom.

The stretch in the past week was crazy. I see countless bud sites densely populating the screen. Hope they will all pack some weight soon. I have a feeling that overcrowding will produce smaller buds, or is that just my illusion?

I broke a top branch of the Lost Cost OG while scrogging. However it seems like the branch will survive although it's only attached by a thin piece of plant material. Being cautious not to break any more, I bought some wires and started to LST the tall branches to the screen. I'm doing this because I can't raise the lights any more, while the temps are rather at the higher side of what is considered optimal.

I'm currently running the drippers 3 times per light cycle. I may increase it to 4 when the buds start to swell. I think this contribues to the high rH as it peaks at around 70%. The EC is currently at 0.9, in other words, half the dose Hesi recommends. I ain't noticing any signs of over fertilization so I'll increase a bit in the next couple days.

As of now I think I'm more or less done training them. I already clipped a fair amount of lower shoots and leaves, but after the stretch it still looks hella packed. I'm not sure if I should clip any more fan leaves, especially the ones on top.
Any suggestions? I've read pros and contras about pruning and always used to be more conservative about it.

 

[greenops]

Looking good Greenops. Not sure what your spraying on them ,as far as N goes they use a lot first 3 weeks or so of flower .U are runnin coco nutes . don't forget to prune out good under the screen after stretch for good airflow. I think your getting dialed in..B

I pruned about a half grocery bag full of leaves under the screen. But what i'm more worried about are the leaves on the screen and above. I heard fan leaves are needed for growth, then again there's an extreme defoliation technique that seems to improve yield. You think I should prune on top as well?

Remember cold air in at bottom and hot air out on top. Pull that air through the plants. Or push air through them. Haha

Yup, i got intake at the bottom too.

ever think of putting a fan under the screen to keep moisture levels down and prevent PM? might have to water a bit more but it might help.

I got 3 clip fans under the screen. When I got PM last grow, my humidity rarely went above 50%. But I think it was the lack of circulation that contributed to it.

Greenops, hows the stretch winding down for you? Any more issues with PM? What's your thoughts on straight coir so far?

Stretch is crazy. A bit challenging to scrog but I'm managing with LST. What I like about Coco is that it seems cleaner to work with. I dont see any bugs. The growth rate is definitely higher. The downside is it requires more maintenance. We'll see if it all pays out when they start to bloom.

 

[Buddler]

Greenops ,looking real good in there ,usually u prune out all the growth below the screen and weave tops to form nice colas.Keep updates coming so I can watch em swell up..B

 

[greenops]

Hey Buddler, i will def keep updating since i decided to finish this grow. I think documenting grows and taking lots of pictures in the process is a helpful tool for future grows.

I must have trimmed about 80% of all the growth under the screen already. The larger fan leaves visible under the screen are mostly from above the screen, which i tucked under.
But I think it's a good idea to go on another "trimming tour".

What's your suggestion for pruning above the screen? With 8 plants in such a small space, i got bud sites popping up everywhere. The fan leaves from the higher bud sites are covering the lower bud sites.

Should I remove the lower bud sites, or the fan leaves that covers them?

 

[Buddler]

Greenops myself I would leave them and let plant recover its a fine line too much could stall plant,but its your call ,keep tuckin fans and weaving till end of stretch.Bud

 

[bigbuduk]

for trimming above the net just prune the leaves which are covering a bud site/potential bud site after some more lst nip and tucking!!

 

[bigbuduk]

also if you have a bud site higher than another,use the pinching technique or tie them down so they are equal,the whole point of a scrog is equal bud sites!!

 

[greenops]

also if you have a bud site higher than another,use the pinching technique or tie them down so they are equal,the whole point of a scrog is equal bud sites!!

I'm well aware of what the objective of a scrog is.
When I grew out 5 and 6 plants before, it was much easier to get an even canopy. Now with 8, the screen got full while the plants just started to stretch. The branches had nowhere to go but up.
So yea, I'm tying down the taller bud sites now.

 

[greenops]

Greenops myself I would leave them and let plant recover its a fine line too much could stall plant,but its your call ,keep tuckin fans and weaving till end of stretch.Bud

Yea bro, i went thru some articles on defoliation and aside from the "extreme defoliation thread" it mostly says that pruning during flowering can indeed slow down the plant. It should have been done couple weeks before flowering.

Therefore i'll go with tucking.



Do any of you have experience with products like Drip Clean?
I would like to prevent algae and clogged drippers, however I read somewhere that plants can go in shock if not used from the beginning. Is that true or BS?

 

[Nek Minnit]

Yeah man,, I run drip clean with my blumats,, haven't had one blockage yet,, last run was 2 blumats to each 6 gal pot with 12 pots,,a total of 24 drippers,,, I dialled them in to where they would almost get run off ,, running a mediocre feed solution with an ec of 1.6 to 1.8,, its good insurance,, I have never noticed any signs of shock, and I can water to no run off and not get any nutrient lockout,, no wasting nutrients to get optimal 10% run off ,, rez lasts longer which equates to less work for me,,, its win win IMHO,,, I normally hand feed thru veg under fluro lights and don't use it till I transfer the ladies into their final 6 gal flower pots with blumats,, one thing I have been told tho is to just buy the small bottles as it can go off if u take too long to use it once openned,, a little goes a long way,, 1ml to 2 gals or 10 liters,, can't wait to see ur girls grow some big fat buds,,,

 

[ares420]

awesome!

 

[greenops]

Day 66 / Day 32 12/12 / Day 17 Bloom

So I did use some Ata Clean at a slightly lower dose than recommended and didn't notice any ill effect. From now on I will add it every watering to avoid algae and salt build up in my drippers.

The Green Crack and Lost Coast OG, both freebies from Humboldt Seeds, are starting to smell pleasantly of sweet berry. Funny how similar they are makes me wonder if they have the same genetics (aka someone messed up with the packaging). The Headbands and OG18, those I was most excited about, still only have a subtle floral odor. Hope it gets stronger as they mature. Trichomes production is just kicking in and they seem to get bushier everyday, but no swelling yet.

The leaves directly under the hood are starting to get a lighter color, not sure if that's light bleach. I raised the lights a bit and monitoring temperature. When set to 400w HPS, the hottest part is at 71 F, and when switched to 600w the temps are between 73-77F.

I'm feeding them an ec of 1.1 and pH of 5.8, still run it 3 times per day. Once a week I leach the top with some additional enzymes. I plan on running the drippers 4 times when they bracets start to swell.

I'm contemplating to replace the HPS with an MH bulb during the last couple weeks of flowering. I noticed some strains I've grown lost their nice smell the mid flowering phase and I've heard that MH grown buds bring out more terpenes. I'm curious if anyone here has had experience with MH in flowering.



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[papaduc]

Hesi nutes are aggressive, stop feeding anything and only give water for the last 2 weeks, there's too much N in their nutes

Where are you? Plant Magic nutes are the best

If you think Hesi's nutes have too much N in them, you should steer clear of plant magic's.

Used alone, they're maybe the worst balanced bloom nutrients on the market.

Hesi's feed has been changed from 8-6-10 to 3-4-5.
Compare that with Plant magic's 4-2-4...

Plant magic's coco bloom formula can and actually should be used as a veg feed. That's how much nitrogen they contain.

With regards to training/defoliating:

If you tuck a leaf, pluck a leaf. You've already restricted it's function by tucking it anyway, just remove it and clear the space.

With regards to how much you can/should defoliate, listen, do yourself one favour and, on this grow, heavily, and I mean thoroughly defoliate one half of your screen. Leave the other half intact and continue tucking if you want.

I had a situation very similar to you recently, I ran a few Reserva privada strains, next to some blackjack, SSH, and some grapefruit krush by ET. My canopy was packed out and I had been toying with the idea of not just defoliating, but stripping every single leaf with a stem. I thought fuck it, it's one grow, one test, one result. What's the worst that can happen...

This is my post in the defoliation thread about that grow. My situation was very similar to yours. Have a read and have a look at the results:

.......

Check out this canopy. It's packed in there. Many different strains. All of them defoliated very thoroughly a few weeks back. Sorry for the shit lighting.



The biggest question mark when doing this was that which permeates this whole debate - the whole theory behind the fan leaf and it's role in the plant's metabolism; ie that the fan harvests light energy and powers bud development and by stripping it you restrict the plant's ability to do that.

The stripping of the plants allowed the light all the way through the canopy, but I worried about the above, obviously.

Well, it seems to have had a positive effect and it appears that whatever we think we know about the role of fan leaves directly relative to bud development, must be reconsidered.



This is a bud at the the very back corner of the canopy on a branch which had been stripped completely of it's fan leaves. It's a foot long and nice and firm. I'm moving other buds out of the way with a cane to take this photo. When I release them they're as packed in like this as you can see in the first picture. I seriously doubt I would have got this kind of result if I hadn't defoliated.

If the fan leaves were directly related to the plant's ability to produce bud, this wouldn't have formed like it has. My thinking is that maybe the plant processes energy as a whole, using a total sum of it's green matter, and maybe the leaf is many times more efficient than we think.

It wouldn't be strange to assume that the plant produces many times the amount of foliage it actually needs in order to maximise it's chances in the wild, and in an indoor environment where conditions are perfectly tailored it needs far less of them, to the point where just a few small leaves can produce buds like this.

It's also worth considering that like I said earlier, the fan leaf facilitates a certain type of growth, after which point the smaller leaves facilitate the growth of the bud or stem they're directly attached to.

 

[greenops]

Damn papaduc, those are some impressive buds, nice canopy too, respect!
I guess you're right, I should take this opportunity so i can see for myself.

Got some questions though:

At what stage of the grow did u start defoliating?
U said u completely strip fans leaves of your plant? Did u mean that literally? Or only those fan leaves that block other bud sites?
Do u defoliate everything in one session?

 

[papaduc]

Damn papaduc, those are some impressive buds, nice canopy too, respect!
I guess you're right, I should take this opportunity so i can see for myself.

Thanks.

Without doubt take this opportunity mate. Don't pass it up. Your canopy is only a couple of things from being the perfect defoliation experiment - identical clones and the timing of defoliation. It's still a fantastic opportunity to see the effects of defoliation for yourself first hand and to share that knowledge with other people on the site.

Draw a line straight down the center of your canopy to divide it in half, and defoliate left or right. Leave the other side intact.

Got some questions though:

At what stage of the grow did u start defoliating?

If I remember correct, just after stretch.

U said u completely strip fans leaves of your plant? Did u mean that literally? Or only those fan leaves that block other bud sites?

Every single leaf, even those you wouldn't consider main fan leaves. Anything with a stem which could be removed to allow light through. The plant was nearly bare when I'd finished except the ones which actually made up the bud site.

I worried when I did it that I'd gone too far, but if I half assed it, what would I really find out? I was questioning the whole defoliation thing and if I was going to find out for myself I was going to find out properly just what the effect of such extreme defoliation would have.

Put it this way, the amount that I defoliated was such that I wondered whether they'd even be able to process light. Like I say, I trusted in the experiment and you can see the results for yourself. Go for it, and be brave. In fact, be more than brave. Go further than you think you should.

Do u defoliate everything in one session?

Everything was taken in one session. Bags were filled.
In fact, I think they filled in again a couple of weeks later and everything was taken again.

I really should have documented it better to go back and check. I'll be doing it again in the future for the defoliation experiment which Payaso is running in the side by side forum. You have that opportunity now. Go for it

 

[papaduc]

Btw, don't feel under pressure to do it just because I've said so. Feel free to tell me to fuck off

It's a daunting thing to do to be honest, and I can understand you not being comfortable with ripping off every single leaf with a stem. It doesn't seem like a natural or intuitive thing to do.

I wouldn't advise you to do it if I wasn't confident you'd be happy with the results, but I wouldn't blame you for maybe not being confident yourself. Especially when you've never seen the results first hand.

Take care.

 

[newtothiscoco]

its looking great man i like your style screen of green