Terpene profile: Sinsemilla v.s. seeded

[Only Ornamental]

Hi Sam,

Knew the first part (Edit: of your first post) of it but not this (thanks!):

I then got the 100% pure THC and mixed in just a very tiny amount of a terpene, I tried the top 12 and found several that made THC stronger and some like Myrcene made the THC high more narcotic, couchlock, stronger then 100% pure THC. Some like limonene contribute to the up , clear, speedy, psychadelic effects.
This was confirmed by an organolepctic test of 100 questions before and after the tests which were for one THC/terpene combo a day. The testing was double blind.
Every single smoker was in general agreement abut the modulation of the THC.

You don't happen to have the complete documentary of that experiment in 'internet-distribution-mode' slumbering on your computer?

But that

Also terpene production is cut in half by seeding, here is the proof:

http://www.internationalhempassociat.../jiha5107.html

is unfortunately no proof. Maybe you posted the wrong link or didn't read it in detail?

 

[Only Ornamental]

I do. And a couple of HPLC's.
-SamS

I know you do and I envy you juuuust a lil bit for that.

 

[Only Ornamental]

Wrong, monoterpens, like Myrcene and Limonene do modify the Cannabis THC high.
Maybe it is time to go back to school?
I do know this.
It has been proven over and over, just not in print in an science article you can find..
-SamS

Can't explain right now (soon dinnertime, sorry) why I think it may be something less volatile but I'll gladly come back to that suject.
A pitty that you don't have something 'official'. Such knowledge might push/motivate cannabis research...

 

[Dropped Cat]

Sam talks terpenes. More please.

What accounts for a carrot smell?

I personally like a floral scent. Terpineol. mmm

 

[Sam_Skunkman]

It was the right link:


Prevention of pollination-
****** The female hemp flowers are thought to be fertile only during a rather short time. Hemp is known to build large amounts of new flowers as long as it does not become pollinated. Prevention of pollination leads to greater amounts of flowers and also to significant higher essential oil yields (Table 3). This strategy is also known by growers of drug Cannabis and is called the "sinsemilla" technique. Prevention of pollination in fields with a size of economical relevance is nearly impossible, but easy to carry out in a greenhouse.
****** The quality of oils was rated as "very good" or even "excellent", regardless if pollination took place or not.
Table 3. Essential oil yields from pollinated and non-pollinated plants (Kompolti).
growing condition --------------------- mean yield (I/ha)

pollinated plants --------------------- 8.3

non pollinated plants------------------ 18.4

LSD0.05 ---------------------------- 2.7


-SamS

Hi Sam,

Knew the first part (Edit: of your first post) of it but not this (thanks!):
You don't happen to have the complete documentary of that experiment in 'internet-distribution-mode' slumbering on your computer?

But that
is unfortunately no proof. Maybe you posted the wrong link or didn't read it in detail?

 

[shaggyballs]

I grow many types of weed.
Which one is best....It depends on who you ask.
Based greatly on taste and smell.....given they are all very potent.
I am of the opinion the same terpene can have a different effect on different people.

 

[Sam_Skunkman]

I did the work for myself to answer basic questions I had.
I did not write it up into an article and won't be doing so.
I got the info I wanted, that is all that was important to me.
You are welcome to repeat the work and write it up for everyone if you wish. I am busy with other things.
I did share the info with anyone, and now the whole Cannabis world is focused on terpenes, I hope it allows patients to find medicine that helps with their ailments and recreational users to easier find herb with the effects they love, while avoiding varieties they do not like. This of course requires places that sell Cannabis to test and post not only Cannabinoid profiles but also the terpene profiles. This will happen, it just takes time, like it took to get good Cannabinoid analysis that is now pretty easy to find. 10 years ago it was impossible to get Cannabis analyzed today it is easy.
-SamS

Hi Sam,

Knew the first part (Edit: of your first post) of it but not this (thanks!):
You don't happen to have the complete documentary of that experiment in 'internet-distribution-mode' slumbering on your computer?

But that
is unfortunately no proof. Maybe you posted the wrong link or didn't read it in detail?

 

[Sam_Skunkman]

Hi Sam,

Knew the first part (Edit: of your first post) of it but not this (thanks!):
You don't happen to have the complete documentary of that experiment in 'internet-distribution-mode' slumbering on your computer?

But that
is unfortunately no proof. Maybe you posted the wrong link or didn't read it in detail?

Maybe you need to read it in detail?
-SamS

 

[Tonygreen]

I do an awful lot of plant watching and to me it seems like some strains I have seen may get frostier with pollination tbh. I also seem to observe a rapid ripening of trichs after pollination occurs or I could be trippin.

 

[Only Ornamental]

Maybe you need to read it in detail?
-SamS

Hi Sam,

Maybe you and me are talking of something different.
My question is: Does pollination change secondary metabolite profile, not quantity.
The article states: No difference in quality (greenhouse was better with no regard of pollination), data on composition aren't provided in that case, in case of sinsemilla quantity of essential oil increased due to an increase in bud size/amount (a rather obvious and known correlation).

Bottom line is, this publication ain't no help for my question but your personal findings are .

 

[Sam_Skunkman]

It is not just the increase of bud/size, it is the increase in terpenes twice the amounts of the same plants grown pollinated, regardless of what the article states it does make a big difference, I can tell you I can smell the difference between the same clone seeded, or not. It is easy for me. But if all you want to know is if the terpene profle changes, not in quanity but quality, I sould still say yes because there is a big difference between the smells of seeded or not. Maybe it is just a doubling of all the terpenes, and that does make the big changes. I do not think the terpenes are different meaning completly different terpenes, just cut in half by seeding.
Take two identical clones, seed one and not the other, then smell them and tell me what you think. Oh and some people have no sense of smell at all, I have a super developed sense of smell, I can smell differences that most do not smell.
-SamS

Hi Sam,

Maybe you and me are talking of something different.
My question is: Does pollination change secondary metabolite profile, not quantity.
The article states: No difference in quality (greenhouse was better with no regard of pollination), data on composition aren't provided in that case, in case of sinsemilla quantity of essential oil increased due to an increase in bud size/amount (a rather obvious and known correlation).

Bottom line is, this publication ain't no help for my question but your personal findings are .

 

[Only Ornamental]

Thanks for your personal insights and observations!

I re-read the publi and I think there remains much to be done but still, it's quite interesting that the essential oil quantity was highest when 50% of the seeds were mature whereas the quality was judged best about one to two weeks prior to that point (but the results, discussion, and conclusion sections are somewhat contradictory). Also that a medium-low seed density (15 plants per square meter) gave best results is helpful I guess. Though, there might be an influence of climat conditions: to me, it seems as dry weather is favourable which may also explain why the greenhouse plants smelled better.
It's a pitty (but not surprisingly) that there is no obvious correlation between the measured terpenes and quality.

Unfortunately, my olfactory sensibility isn't very developed... although, that's pretty advantageous when using public transports .

 

[BredForMeds]

Now I am not a scientist I'm just going off of intuition here but, I would think that a seeded plant would produce a wider range of terpenes to protect the developing seeds from pests and the environment i.e intense uv rays from the sun and HID lights. Also cannabis has evolved for the purpose of reproduction... Just like every other organism on the beautiful planet has. So in my humble opinion unseeded cannabis is missing something, including certain terpenes it might not produce in unseeded bud. If terpenes add to or modulate the high in some way then this statement from Dj Short will back this up somewhat...


Peace and love!!

I thought the hash growers relized that wen a male is around the females tend to push out more trichomes.. obviously this is the case.. or else they would pull the males for a bigger harvest..

from what I think is happening.. is just like wen a female is ovulating. and a male is more attracted to her.. this is proven fact with humans and animals.

I think the female gets excited.. and wants to reproduce so she pushes out as many trichomes to get that pollen to stick to something.. then from there bugs and wind do the rest?

I could be rong.. its just my theory.

 

[Only Ornamental]

I think the female gets excited.. and wants to reproduce so she pushes out as many trichomes to get that pollen to stick to something.. then from there bugs and wind do the rest?

I could be rong.. its just my theory.

Jep, you are wrong . Cannabis is exclusively wind-pollinated, not by insects, and the pollen 'sticks' to the stigma not the trichomes.
As already stated, females obviously want to reproduce (like all living organisms) and when unpollinated push out more flowers. Others may tell you better what the effects on trichome density, size and composition are (see posts by Sam_Skunkman).

 

[TommyJay]

Sam did the pure 100% THC have any smell by itself? Or any taste when consumed alone?

Thanks,
TJ

 

[Sam_Skunkman]

Thanks for your personal insights and observations!

I re-read the publi and I think there remains much to be done but still, it's quite interesting that the essential oil quantity was highest when 50% of the seeds were mature whereas the quality was judged best about one to two weeks prior to that point (but the results, discussion, and conclusion sections are somewhat contradictory). Also that a medium-low seed density (15 plants per square meter) gave best results is helpful I guess. Though, there might be an influence of climat conditions: to me, it seems as dry weather is favourable which may also explain why the greenhouse plants smelled better.
It's a pitty (but not surprisingly) that there is no obvious correlation between the measured terpenes and quality.

Unfortunately, my olfactory sensibility isn't very developed... although, that's pretty advantageous when using public transports .

You need to remember that most of what was tested was hemp only a couple were drug varieties.
-SamS

 

[Sam_Skunkman]

Resin is THC plus any other Cannabinoids and terpenes, seeded Cannabis has less of both. The same clone seeded will not have any more, maybe it looks like it but it does not.
I have never seen a sieved hash farmer sex and kill all the nales and i have been to almost every hashish producing country and talked with farmers. Sexing millions of plants in a hash farmers field is so much extra work, think about it. Hand rubbed from NLD like in Nepal is the only place I saw males destroyed and it was westerners that were doing it.
-SamS

I thought the hash growers relized that wen a male is around the females tend to push out more trichomes.. obviously this is the case.. or else they would pull the males for a bigger harvest..

from what I think is happening.. is just like wen a female is ovulating. and a male is more attracted to her.. this is proven fact with humans and animals.

I think the female gets excited.. and wants to reproduce so she pushes out as many trichomes to get that pollen to stick to something.. then from there bugs and wind do the rest?

I could be rong.. its just my theory.

 

[Madjag]

While we're on the subject of terpene profiles, I was talking to a friend on another forum who lives in Australia. I started a thread there focused on scent and aroma descriptions and the way seed companies as well as individuals describe a strain. An example is this description for Bodhi Seeds' Tiger's Milk. It's found on the Seedsman Seeds website:

"This hybrid rocks the kasbah everytime.....inside and out, she puts out potent pillars of fruity kushy chem nugs with accents of honey rolled durbar incense, Ethiopian frankincense, cane syrup, pina colada, and mocha chai lattes. Expect extreme frost and strong effect that makes you feel like a tiger cub in a field of catnip."

Granted, this kind of description, like those found on the labels of fine wines, hinges upon a totally subjective description, usually by an "expert". "Hints of chocolate", "evoking memories of fields of fresh strawberries", etc. all depend upon the reader's ability to remember those scents and aromas. A lot of it is focused upon salesmanship as we know. I have no memory of "honey rolled durbar incense". Do you?

My OZ friend mentioned that no one in Australia, or for that matter Europe, can properly recognize "skunk", unless they've been to North America and experienced one, because skunks are not found in their native countries except Stink Badgers, which resemble the hog-nosed skunk, that are strictly found in the Philippines, Malaysia, and Indonesia. They can smell good weed in their respective countries and have someone who truly knows say, "that's the smell of road-kill skunk" or "that's what skunk spray smells like". Hopefully the person helping them understand has a accurate grasp on it in the first place, or they're lost even further when it comes to identifying "skunk".

The same goes for blueberry, lemon/citrus, and many other primary scents we use for herb scent descriptions. Having a fairly clear terpenoid compound aroma library in your nose and memory is nice if you're talking herb scents and tastes.

 

[pinkus]

AFAIK already a few dozen seeds, even when just on one branch, will trigger a response (i.e. less new flowers) in the WHOLE plant. Therefore, the chemical composition of all the trichomes on the plant should change accordingly... at least, that's my theory...

I'm not sure it would trigger the whole plant. The one piece of evidence I have is that flowering is localized on the plant. In other words if you cover one branch so it has a flowering photoperiod, just the covered portion will flower... at least in a photo-period controlled plant.

great question, IIRC DJ shorts claims seeded weed gives a happier high

EDIT: did not see Sam S in here. Time shut my mouth(keyboard) and open my ears(eyes). Thank you Sam for sharing your learning.

 

[Sam_Skunkman]

I'm not sure it would trigger the whole plant. The one piece of evidence I have is that flowering is localized on the plant. In other words if you cover one branch so it has a flowering photoperiod, just the covered portion will flower... at least in a photo-period controlled plant.

great question, IIRC DJ shorts claims seeded weed gives a happier high

EDIT: did not see Sam S in here. Time shut my mouth(keyboard) and open my ears(eyes). Thank you Sam for sharing your learning.

You are correct, flowering is localized meaning if you cover one branch of a vegetative plant it will flower if under short hours of light and the rest of the plant will not flower. Sam the other way you can flower plants and have only one branch that is getting long light hours and the plant flowers and the branch does not.
I do not agree with DJ Short on this issue, to me sinsemilla of the right kind with the right terpenes is what you want, not the seeded version of the same plant. If he is after less terpenes and less Cannabinoids like THC, then seeded is the way to go, but not for me.

-SamS