2014 +3kw coco PPK grow attempt

[farmari]

Happy 2014 everyone! Who knows what the future may bring, but I have reasons to be optimistic. External factors have calmed a lot to where I now may be able to put a proper level of focus and energy to my garden.

Last month ended with an okay harvest but it also ended with a lot of veg tent problems. I failed to properly clone this plant and now must attempt to reveg it:

Instead of continuing the perpetual harvest, I must veg first.

Here are 12 coco buckets with seeds planted, Nirvana Crystal, Nirvana AK-48, and Dinafem Power Kush:

Three days have passed, no sprouts. Is this normal?

And now for the PPKs. These are two Seedsman Pot of Gold from seed. Photos were taken immediately after putting up these 2 foot diameter tomato cages:

They are in 5 gallon buckets cut short so they contain about 3 gallons of Botanicare coco coir. I am not top feeding at the moment. Just wicking with a 5" air gap.

I cut a large hole in the bottom of each bucket to fit a 6" net pot through. Here is an example of a net pot used:

I fitted window screen into the net pot then added coco. The window screen is to keep the coir from falling through.

Using big net pots should remove the risk of the tailpiece clogging that is common with 1.5" tailpieces filled with coco.

The PPK tailpiece theory is that they keep the coco at a near ideal moisture level. I've been very happy with growth rates in the past when done properly.

Everyone please ask any questions and feel free to comment! Constructive criticism is appreciated too! Any suggestions about anything are welcome.

 

[farmari]

Here is a closer look of the two PPKs.

Pot of Gold #1:

Pot of Gold #2:

A more broad look at the flowering area:

The room has a few air intakes but this is the biggest. It's a 14" passive duct. The other end terminates at the other end of the house.

And here is the exhaust. On the other side of the wall is a 14" Can Max fan hooked up to a carbon filter. Normally the temp and humidity is significantly higher.

 

[flat9]

What are you using to raise RH? DHF always preaches 70% at 78F through stretch.

 

[flat9]

Curious to see how that tailpiece works for ya...

 

[Mister_D]

Subbed

 

[farmari]

Hello Mister D, I actually have a few of your grow threads open in my browser currently that I was planning on studying

What are you using to raise RH? DHF always preaches 70% at 78F through stretch.

The growroom RH never goes this low... it's really low now #1 because of extreme weather (extremely low outdoor dew point) and #2 because there is so little foliage. Normally the room is perpetual and the plants continually humidify things to a decent degree.

The highest RH I can go to at 78F is 45% without changing the ventilation setup, because that would put the rest of the house at 60% RH if the temp is 70F, and I am not comfortable with going any higher than that for the sake of my family's health and risk of mold damage to the house. Plus even that high puts the lights off humidity at 60% which has caused bud rot in the past ... maybe programming the mini split to dehumidify during lights off would fix that?

As far as I'm aware the only way I would go higher than that arbitrary maximum is if I changed to a sealed room, which I guess is possible though would be quite difficult to set up due to the particulars of this property. Currently I have kind of a 'sealed house' with house being the 'lung room' for the grow.

But flat9 you are helping me because my short answer is: I'm doing nothing because I'm being lazy. Saying this motivates me to at least fill up my 1gallon humidifier and get another wet black towel in there.

I have a towel wicking from a bucket on the pond liner growroom floor currently.

 

[flat9]

Ha! Laziness happens to the best of us bro.

Actually I'm quite curious about this setup with coco. I'd like to run PPKs with coco rather than the floor dry ... cleaning the shit is a PITA ... and despite Mister_D's luck, it hasn't worked for me w/o a very thorough cleaning.

Those netpot lids are really 5 deep"? Btw, how did the reveg go?

 

[farmari]

11 of 12 seeds sprouting today, yay! Two of four clones are finally growing now too. Here they are:

Not so good, only two clones left growing, two more in stasis, after taking a bunch in rockwool 20 days ago. I was afraid of the rockwool cubes drying out and think I made the mistake of keeping them too moist. Four made it at least... better than 0

Temperature gun said 90F for some of the Pot of Gold #1 leaves. There are two Super Sun 2's with 600w bulbs above this plant. I raised the lights a few inches and added this fan:

Now down to 84-85F, (29C) still higher than I'd like with this low humidity but not nearly as bad as 90F. Pot of Gold #2 is 80F canopy temp under 1150w Gavita. Lights overkill right now because I have a lot of space without enough canopy to begin flowering. Time's a wasting!

Note that the fan breeze is (barely) missing the plant. Hitting the plant with a strong breeze would just make the low vapor pressure deficit more of a problem IMO. Normally I have no fans running except the exhaust fan which isn't in the growroom, and an exhaust fan in what is normally the veg tent. The passive intakes generate very good broad airflow.

Here is the diy passive humidifier added yesterday:

Ha! Laziness happens to the best of us bro.

Actually I'm quite curious about this setup with coco. I'd like to run PPKs with coco rather than the floor dry ... cleaning the shit is a PITA ... and despite Mister_D's luck, it hasn't worked for me w/o a very thorough cleaning.

Those netpot lids are really 5 deep"? Btw, how did the reveg go?

Ohh I'm not sure if I can recommend coco for PPKs honestly because I'm no expert and better growers than me have had serious problems with it. (FlowerFarmer and DaveTheNewbie for example) Though others (otis33 for example I think?) stay with it with good results. Wish I saw photos of your floor dry PPKs, I had no idea what the cause of the slow growth was. I'd be afraid to recommend coco PPKs to someone who ends up having big problems! I've had good results without any wicking with coco too and many on the forum mention great results with coco drain to waste. Without the wicking it was the same setup as this, coco buckets top fed on a timer, recirculating. Just hydroton in the bottom of buckets and in the wicks instead of coir.

Perlite PPKs went well for me too. I just hate the dust. Usually in veg everything is in handwatered (sometimes hempy) buckets then transplanted into a PPK bucket for flowering, whether it was 100% coco or 100% perlite.

What most are doing now with PPKs seems to involve a flood pulse feed, totally flooding the plant bucket like an ebb/flow would. Although I did this successfully with coco before it's not recommended at all as it the coir more likely to compact and clog the wick. Perlite floats which is the main drawback for using it in PPK as you can't do the flood pulse.

The netpots are about 6" diameter and 6" deep (I think!) and the water level is kept 5" below the top of the lower buckets, so only the bottom inch of the netpots are submerged.

No new news on the WWxBB reveg. Never done a reveg before... it's just a few days since harvesting, if all goes well apparently there should be new growth in 3-6 weeks.

 

[Mister_D]

Ha! Laziness happens to the best of us bro.

Actually I'm quite curious about this setup with coco. I'd like to run PPKs with coco rather than the floor dry ... cleaning the shit is a PITA ... and despite Mister_D's luck, it hasn't worked for me w/o a very thorough cleaning.

Those netpot lids are really 5 deep"? Btw, how did the reveg go?

Keep in mind I'm not just mixing it with straight coco. My mix is unique, and cannot be apples to apples compared to anything else.

 

[otis33]

if one knows the ins and outs of coco, there is no reason one shouldn't be able to kill it with the right coco mix in appk... I'm loving my chowe mix ppks and my straight coco only ppjs did very well too. coco is all I know. I'm new to the game still, but I cut my teeth in the vert section and learned all I know from mr d, dhf, and bobblehead before he went horizontal organic( I'm still learning from him as well as dhf & d). it's a process finding what works best for you, cause it's not the same for all. I'd suggest mixing your coco with something as it tends to compact after being watered constantly. the clay pebbles have been good to me, but perlite has worked well too and I'm thinking d's mix of croutons etc could do well in appk too, but it seems like I'm the only one who doesn't have problems with coco at times... any way I'll be often lurking and posting every once and a while so ifs yas needs me...

 

[otis33]

oh ya, the net pots, bitchin idea!

 

[otis33]

is that a gavita j see in there? what's the footprint and how much space between bulb and plant tops?

 

[farmari]

These photos were all taken on the 19th (?), so 11 days since the previous photos.

The large Pot of Golds have alternated from looking happy to looking overwatered and zinc deficient.

The humidity 2 weeks ago was way too low. I don't know if that was the cause, but leaf temps were highest where the leaves looked in the worst shape.

Wild guesses:

1) Lumen shock - I never usually veg CFLs but did before putting them in this system this time. Also had the lighting on 24/0 so no time to rest for the 'daily light intregal' or however you call it.

2) Heat stress - leaf temps only in the low 80s at highest, but at the room dew point that would mean very low humidity, very stressfull vapor pressure deficit.

3) Overwatering - Maybe the 6" net pot tailpieces are just too wide, and either wick up too much or the roots have grown down in them too much.

The Botanicare brick coco I use does wick like crazy. I've done a test before with a regular tailpiece and 6" above the water level seemed too moist to the touch.

Improving weather and arrival of a fogger should help the humidity very soon here. Overwating is being tested by lowering the water level of the PPKs below the net pots, then raising them a couple days later, and seeing how the plants respond.

And here are the 4 clones and 11 seedlings:

^^^One or two of the seedlings is having a strong downward leaf curl. The near left seedling in the photo above is worst. Is this nutrient toxicity?

is that a gavita j see in there? what's the footprint and how much space between bulb and plant tops?

Yes indeed... the lights along the back wall are currently aligned to cover a 3x3ft space each, with the back wall being 9ftx3ft. The Gavita is in the middle meant to cover the middle 3x3ft space with the Pot of Gold #2 under it. The wide angle reflection of the Gavita ends up hitting all of the plants along the back wall. The light is higher than usual because of poor humidity, I'll do some measurements for the next post but I think around 24-30" right now. Usually 18-24" from the closest leaf in the past, on the 1150w setting which is strongly advised against by others if I recall right. On my first coco PPK grow, I had 4 plants under the Gavita in the 3x3ft middle and they yielded over 2 pounds, even though one of the four was badly hurt and killed in late flowering by fungus gnats.

As things develop there will be at least 2 Gavitas and I can better show visually the lighting config for yas.

 

[farmari]

These photos are all from today, 4 days after the previously most recent photos were taken:

Here are the four clones of the left corner Pot of Gold #1 now in 2 gallon coco PPKs. These have the normal 1.5" sink tailpieces as wicks. Well except one which is still in a handwatered 1gal coco bucket.

And here are the seedlings, still handwatered coco:

This is the most concerning seedling:

Leaves all clawed down/inward like that. Anyone know what this might be and what I should do?

Sorry that the lights are on in these photos. Ugly color with HPS lights on.

 

[Mister_D]

My bet is when your humidity dropped so low the plants started to transpire more water relative to the nutes being used (VPD issue). This concentrated the nutes in your coco, and because you continued to feed at normal strength you now have lockout. Do a slurry test (mix 50/50 coco from your worst plant, and RO or distilled water. Wait at least 30 min, strain and measure the EC and ph of the water) This will give you an accurate idea of what your roots are actually seeing. Assuming it's just your EC being high (anything over 1.4EC at anytime in a plants life is high IMO), I'd recommend you flush with 50% strength nutes until a slurry test comes back in the proper range.

 

[flat9]

Hey farmari why not bare bulb? Forgive me if I missed it before ... just dropping in and looking at pics mainly

 

[farmari]

Mister D thank you for your input! If problems continue I'll certainly try the slurry test. Was waiting on a part for my RO filter (just using tap) at the time. I picked off the worst two fans on that one and the new growth looks significantly better. Hoping that a thorough flush watering in these coco beds will put the seedlings on a healthier and faster growing path.

I just switched to 12/12 light schedule tonight, finally. Decided to flower out everything at the same time. Still more work setting up a 2nd coco bed and getting the lights proper tomorrow.

I cut a hole in the middle of this 3ft x 2ft HDPE tray and put a 6" net pot into the hole to act as a PPK wick, same as I did with the two big Pot of Gold plants. Then added 6 of the seedlings, two AK-48s on the left and four Crystal (Nirvana) in the middle and right side of the tray.

Hey farmari why not bare bulb? Forgive me if I missed it before ... just dropping in and looking at pics mainly

Hey flat9, ask away, I skim grow threads just looking at photos all the time. I have switched back and forth at times, though I mostly grew vert trees until my first coco PPK grow a year ago and have stayed horizontal lights since then. With my plant count, (above 10 but under 50) I prefer horizontal... if I could have 99 plants then vert SOG might be cool or if I could only have a half dozen plants then I'd go vert trees. Trees can be a real pain in the ass and I had no better yields compared to horizontal. Horizontal is a lot easier for me personally and especially now that I run much higher lighting intensity (watts per sq ft) which I can't do with vert. Gavitas don't work vertically either. Not saying that horizontal is better than vert... just my personal preference for now. I'm pretty tired so feel free to ask and I can try to elaborate more clearly another day

 

[farmari]

The two big Pot of Golds. (aka Hindu Kush Skunk) There are the two with the 6" net pot tailpieces: (100% coco)

Pot of Gold #2 with the 4 PoG #1 clones:

And a closer look at the 4 clones. Again these have 1.5" diameter 6" long tailpieces, 100% coco.

And the last 5 seedlings. 4 Critical+ and 1 AK-48. Need to put these into a 2nd coco bed ASAP:

 

[farmari]

Another look at the coco seedling bed:

To give an idea of the current lighting arrangement. When it's all set up I'll draw up a plant and lighting layout and upload it to make things more clear:

 

[AuZeN]

Wow its new for me, valuable information thanks