Which Hydroponic Grow Method?

[HellaFella420]

what about the RDWC set ups? Thinking about doing 9 5 gallon buckets and a 30 gallon control bucket for about 50 gallons total. Going to flower under 1400w hps in a 5x4 ft area.

Was going to go with ebb and flow but idk, just glad this thread was started bc ive been wondering the same question too. Which hydrop set up is better... Ill be checking in.

GO WITH EBB AND FLO.....

if this is the "decision" time, make sure you make the right one...

I have ran both styles, MANY times..... I would choose Ebb&Flow anyday after what I know now....

Stop by my thread, check things out and ask any questions you like!

 

[TerpeneTom]

Stand alone C02 Meter (www.co2meter.com) and C02 Controller (Titan Controls - Atlas 7).

Nice Noobs, this PPK is entirely new to me as well. RDWC intrigues me too, but Ebb and Flo seems superior in regards to air type root development. From what i understand it better mimics nature, cycles of rain (flood) and drought. That seems to be the direction of these passive techniques.

This is in short what i have gathered, though there is much more insightful, intelligent, and reputable discussion/knowledge only a Google search away

 

[Jellyfish]

You won't really know until you go for it.

 

[farmari]

Actually opposite of rain and drought, PPK and flood+drain are meant to give the roots 24/7 a lot of moisture and oxygen. PPK especially is meant to have a constant ideal amount of moisture+air. The flood is meant to be as short duration as possible, to evenly soak everything while displacing the air. (stagnant air is then replaced by fresh air when it drains)

 

[noobs1988]

Well, i was originally was going to go with ebb and flow but i just thought it would be a lot of hydroton I would need. And I only have 1 big bag. How big of a flood table you think i would need to 9 plants under 1400w?
I will have a professional set up with co2 dehumidifer and everything.

 

[TerpeneTom]

Certainly didn't mean literal drought, but instead the "natural" cycling and roots not totally submerged in water. The soilless media (turface now?) effectively retains moisture and supply's excellent oxygen exposure. Similar concept, but improved cycle times, dependent upon environmental conditions unique to your microclimate

I can see now that what i said is flawed. This is why I question my choices/actions, and thus cannot determine which method to grow with, for i am so often wrong, heh.

 

[justanotherbozo]

I can see now that what i said is flawed. This is why I question my choices/actions, and thus cannot determine which method to grow with, for i am so often wrong, heh.

...this is why i seem to advocate for hempy buckets so strongly, most especially for new people just learning their chops.

...experience will always be your best teacher and you won't really begin to learn until you start popping some beans and in the beginning maybe 'simple' is the way to start, if there is little that CAN go wrong, it won't be hard to figure it out when something DOES go wrong.

...you're gonna have plenty of time to experiment and learn new and more advanced techniques and technologies so maybe begin by doing things as simply as you can manage so you can spend these months learning to read your plants instead of struggling to keep your res temps down and your dripper or sprayer heads unclogged or whatever, lol.

anyway, that's my story and i'm stuck with it, lol.

peace, bozo

 

[TerpeneTom]

Preachin!

Thanks Bozo, wise statements!

Have to take it all in stride I suppose : /

 

[farmari]

Certainly didn't mean literal drought, but instead the "natural" cycling and roots not totally submerged in water. The soilless media (turface now?) effectively retains moisture and supply's excellent oxygen exposure. Similar concept, but improved cycle times, dependent upon environmental conditions unique to your microclimate

I can see now that what i said is flawed. This is why I question my choices/actions, and thus cannot determine which method to grow with, for i am so often wrong, heh.

Ohh Tom I hear what you're saying, didn't mean to try to correct you so much as to just ramble on a bit about the concepts behind the methods

I totally agree with justanotherbozo. For a new grower best thing to do is just start growing asap, and perhaps the fastest way to get set up is hempy buckets. You can always transplant your plants out of hempys if you decide to set up a more complicated system.

 

[TerpeneTom]

" You can do anything you put your mind to...

Just saying the possibilities are endless, and don't get hung up on mimicking to attain your goals.

--

and only add patience (#12) as being a possible advantageous ingredient towards eventually achieving your goals.

--

We are not posting here to outline any definitve, exhaustive or conclusive guide to what you are seeking, only some fairly broad points which might be further visited or explored to garner greater detail as it may or may not relate to one`s pursuits, from what we gathered experimenting with Square Root® Garden Bags. The data points may or may not be applicable. Please post if you would like us to remove this post from your thread. If inapplicable, please simply discard the particular point description.

Some possible considerations:

1. Awareness of the cultivar selected for the experiment. Or, genetics. Some may reach the required mass to achieve the desired result, some may not, regardless of the vegetation period. Perhaps selecting the cultivar genetically capable of filling a 5x5x8 foot area might be an inital determination.

2. Medium. We found pumice and perlite to possess properties suitable for long-term vegetation and continued flowering or fruiting. That is, thorough drainage, adequate capillary action, inertness decreasing chemical influence on nutrient solution, reusable. Perlite alone also worked well. Calcined clay alone worked well. Mixtures of the above 3 ingredients worked well. Coco coir can also work, though it may require some attention to its saturation and pH.

3. Lighting. Sufficient to strike the cultivar from two opposite angles, or a single large luminaire per specimen. Vertical bare bulb or hooded bulb with reflector. Either might work well. Perhaps over the last week or so, lighting can be reduced, as well.

3. Nutrients. As little as possible, as simple as possible. Any of the dry type nutrients, or the preferred nutrient. Any should work well. If more than one cultivar, perhaps can be more difficult if employing a single active delivery method. Different specimen may require different specific compounds. As little as possible and add to that, if needed, as a standalone application, top-fed, to accomodate individual specimen which might exhibit issues.

4. pH. 5.0-5.5 input. Lower pH input to account for pH fluctuation in the medium. One of the most important items to manage. Extended vegetation periods in media that retains too much nutrients over a period might adversely affect the units at a later point. Some gardeners prefer a range of 5.8-6.2. Once the gardener is aware of what that specific cultivarrequires, the inputs could be tailored for that specimen.

5. Watering. Once or twice per day, only until minimal run-off. Can be handwatered, or any of the various system configuarations. Does not require any pumps, air stones, feed lines, etc., unless preferred. There might be nuances in feeding less water than a gardener might expect necessary - and also not feeding too little water or nutrients. Feeding only what the specimen uses over a given period tended to work well in either active or passive systems. Watering too much reduced the ability to maintain a `fresh` (stable pH, less precipitation, less over-fertilization, less saturation of media if coco coir was in the media mix) solution every 24hrs.

6. Container capacity. Between 5 gallons and 20 gallons. The smaller the capacity of the container, the more acute gardener actions influence the specimen. Some gardeners achieve large plants or trees in 5 or even 3 gallon containers. Very possible, yet requiring some degree of awareness of the specimen and system. We found 10 or 20 gallons - same container for vegetation and flowering or fruiting to work during experiments, though 3 or 5 gallons work, too.

7. Vegetation. Full light of garden, i.e., the total available illumination that might be reserved for fruiting or flowering. 20/4, or 24/0. Until specimen reaches appropriate mass based on awareness of #1. In a 10x5 tent, that might be approximately 4 ft. wide by 4-6 ft. tall - prior to initiating fruiting or flowering. If the experiment is only the first in that particular garden, method, or other unknown variables (1st occasion), perhaps ignore any `time` requirements for a cultivar to reach a desired mass. Perhaps define the desire mass before, and simply garden until that mass would be reached - irrepsective of the duration necessary to reach that state. That might be a possible benchmark to reflect on at a future garden, i.e., it might require 6 weeks or 9 weeks. If the goal was the largest possible mass, negating a `time` variable to reach the mark might be rewarding. In essence, the gardener might seek for any surfaces behind the specimen to be unviewable due to the mass in fronmt of it - from the top of the container to the top of the specimen, or 4 ft. by 6 ft. of specimen mass - before initiating fruiting or flowering.

8. Temperature. The lower the average daily temperature, the least possible stress might be exhibited by the specimen. Not necessarily visible stress, but the physical process through which the specimen might exert energy to cool itself, instead of directing its energy to continued growth and development. Perhaps under 85 degrees F, ideally 75-80 degrees F, with illumination. Perhaps as low as possible over the last 2 weeks or so.

9. Dehumidification. The larger the specimen, the more water vapor they might push into the micro climate around the foliage. At least some form of water vapor extraction from the garden, i.e., dehumidification.

10. Supports. If a tent garden, perhaps affixing appropriate ceiling tresses or lateral bars to have the ability to tie branches from the top. Some gardeners employ yo-yos, cages, or other devices, or both. We found basic bamboo stakes to be useful. Perhaps 24 4 ft. stakes to support every lateral branch, in concentric circles around the trunk, and perhaps another 12-18 6 ft. stakes for the oldest branches (at the top 1/2 of the specimen). No branches without some form of support, to prevent stress or fracturing of the branches, and to permit the specimen to develop without bearing the weight of its own fruit or flowers.

11. Amendments, supplements, etc. Perhaps potassium silicate media or foliar fed once per 10 days, at 50ppm. Perhaps calcium fed separately once per 10 days. Perhaps iron fed once per month, at a very small amount. Without exacting awareness of what a supplement does, and its possible after-effects, or infleunces on the entire nutrient regime, as few additives as possible.

12. Patience. Without this element, it might be more difficult for the specimen to reach its maximum potential within the space parameters of the garden. Ideally, the gardener would want to not be able to physically move through the garden at all at the conclusion, nor be able to see any walls within the garden.

--

The above were simply posted as a possible simple appraoch. Just an optional cursory outline. Not in any particular order, nor intended to be definitive, though #12 could be a preface to each of the previous 11 points, or any other point incorporated into the flow of the model.

There really might not be any magick involved, or `secrets`. What might be gleaned by the gardener during such an experiment may be difficult to convert into printed principles.

The particular system or method used, perhaps, could be selected based on the inherent preferences,or preferred experimental practices of the specific gardener. If a gardener preferred pumps, feed lines, etc., or an `active` system, then they might be more inclined to pursue such a route. If the gardener did not particularly prefer any method, hand watering might accomplish the same as an abundance of equipment employed. The cultivar should not be effected adversely by any method employed as long as the gardener provides the basic essentials.

In the past we experimented with active recirculating shallow water culture using 20 gallon SRBGB`s in a basin that covered an entire garden floor. We simply poured 10 or 20 gallons into the basin, which disperesed to form a roughly 2 to 4 inch pool in the basin. A single small water pump was affixed at the bottom of the basin. The pump ran 24/7 to a 12 in. 3/4 inch tube that had 1/8 lines travelling to top-feed each 20 gallon SRBGB. To keep the process going, we simple continued to replenish the solution in th large pool. Based on the extended vegetation period, we compiled approximately 3 total sets of pump and entire feed line. We swapped out the entire feed system every week to 10 days to prevent accumulation of build-up in the nutrient circuit. That was a relatively simple actively circulating system.

We also experimented with hand watering 10 and 20 gallon SRBGB`s in individual basins, approximately 2 ft. by 3 ft. reservoirs. We simple top-fed once per day at approximately 1 to 2 gallons per day, depending on cultivar. That amount of water (or solution) would accumulate to approximately 2 to 3 inches of run-off in the external basin, which roots could uptake over the 24 hour period between waterings. Roots grew into the basin and depleted the run-off to a only a damp level by 24 -36hrs. The specimen was then simply top-fed again. We described this process in an article at the subforum `Drain To No Waste Methods`.

Basically, mostly any `system` or `method` might work to achieve large plants or trees. But, without #12, the process might become challenging due to #12 being possibly an important precursor for #1 - #11, if not already in the designs of the gardener.

There are many threads at ICMAG which detail, or at least depict the basics of large plants or trees in DWC, soil, coco coir, aeroponics, rockwool, `bucket systems`, other novel apporaches, etc; some older threads some newer. Any gardener can do it in nearly any system - with #12 - and individual gardener awareness of their own preferences of approach. Again, the only magick might be found at #12.

We would perhaps simply handwater a large SRBGB filled with pumice, once per 24 hrs. Draw a 4-5 ft. wide by 5-6 ft. tall box on the wall, or on carboard in front of a wall, of the size the mass should be before fruiting initiation (half of the space described), and pre-place 36 4ft. and 6ft. stakes into the medium. Ignoring `time`, if the genetics permit it, the gardener might reach their desired goal. If not, then at least a baseline might be found from which to improve.

Positive expectations, or definitve goals, in general, might assist in advancing an experimenter forwards in their endeavors.

We hope that this post might be helpful.

Kind regards,
/SRGB/ "

Incredibly informative post worth quoting.

Thanks, SRGB!

 

[TerpeneTom]

Forgot to cite.

(SRBG, https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=273811&page=3, #38)

 

[justanotherbozo]

Forgot to cite.

(SRBG, https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=273811&page=3, #38)

...high man, i checked and you were off by a page, ...anyway, here is a link to that single post, i agree, it's well worth repeating.

SRBG

peace, bozo

 

[farmari]

Post count # is what matters some choose different numbers of posts per page so what is page 70 for some people is page 35 for others

 

[TerpeneTom]

Duly noted.

 

[TerpeneTom]

To update, I have determined that I will be employing PPK techniques, aside from vertical orientation of the bulb and the growth of uncontrollable trees, but instead just implementing the grow module design - shallow and wide media container, stagnant wicking bottom reservoir, tailpiece, turface, pulsing... - within my given parameters (4X4X7 Tent, Horizontal lighting).

 

[noobs1988]

That's about the same spacre im working with but mine is 4x5 9ft high. I was really set on 9 5 gallon buckets doing a RDWC... having a 30gallon control res