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Organic benefits???
- Thread starter Lacroix
- Start date
umbralindigo
Member
Hey @Lacroix, lets not jump the gun here pal.. So are you already growing organically? And if so, what products and how?
If you build a living system with (most typically) peat or another base amendment (or even buy bagged soil), then you will not need to test or change pH, and in most cases the chemicals used for "up" and "down"s are can vary in toxicity to that living system.
The plant will control it's own pH to allow different nutrient uptake.
You will not, and should not need to "change" pH.
Don't be fooled by that bit of misinformation. It will cause you grief in the long run.
If you build a living system with (most typically) peat or another base amendment (or even buy bagged soil), then you will not need to test or change pH, and in most cases the chemicals used for "up" and "down"s are can vary in toxicity to that living system.
The plant will control it's own pH to allow different nutrient uptake.
You will not, and should not need to "change" pH.
Don't be fooled by that bit of misinformation. It will cause you grief in the long run.
umbralindigo
Member
After years of running guano teas with kelp extracts on coco and earthworm castings and perlite, I finally gave it up and just started mixing soil.
The difference in end product is remarkable.
I used to worry about pH for a short time. It gave me headaches and not researching more on my products used was a mistake.
Make your own personalized whatever you can. Mixes, compost, ferments, start growing beneficial herbs.
You can safely veer left of the grow store and head right for low cost high living.
The difference in end product is remarkable.
I used to worry about pH for a short time. It gave me headaches and not researching more on my products used was a mistake.
Make your own personalized whatever you can. Mixes, compost, ferments, start growing beneficial herbs.
You can safely veer left of the grow store and head right for low cost high living.
Umbralindingo I'm using a mixture of three foxfarm soils, roots compost, pearlite and dolmite lime. I'm using eureka springs compost tea mixtures to feed... http://eurekaspringsorganics.com/compost-tea-kits
umbralindigo
Member
Right on, I assume then that you mixed the dolomite early on. It as an amendment can generally be left out, it is a poor source for calcium and the pH buffer quality is rather pointless . since its there dont sweat it . organic benefits you say? Build you own soil, check the recycled living soil thread front to back, you'll be happy you did man.
DinosaurCocks
Member
the number one reason is so that you can feel superior to those lazy and/or ignorant chemical growers, and lord it over them that your weed is not only better, but much healthier...just kidding, a little...
i figure that with organics your much more likely to be getting your nutrients from multiple sources and would theoretically have a much more diverse and complete nutrient profile compared to say the lucas formula with maxi-bloom...sure, most plants wont show a deficiency with maxi-bloom but it doesn't mean they are necessarily getting exactly what they want when they want it...organics allows your plants to do that better...
just like with plants we know that as humans, we are healthier with a more diverse diet, vs eating the same thing at every meal for an extended amount of time, no matter how healthy said meal is. you can go to a grow shop and spend a grand on 10-20 different bottles of chemical ferts, boosters, and snake oils, only to find that you probably only ended up with the same 6 chemicals in every single bottle in varying amounts...i guess i don't see snake oils as much in organic, you could leave the store with 10 different organic supplements and end up with hundreds of different compounds, and every source seems to have different profiles of diverse goodies...when a plant is at the true peak of it's health, it's going to put out a more complex profile of terpenines, an effect that is compounded by a lack of harsh chemical salt in your buds...
when i switched to organic i couldn't believe the change in flavor, it was very pronounced, and i had been told my entire chemical growing career that i wouldn't be able to tell the difference at all so i was very very surprised. my weed is not only worlds smoother but i can taste subtle flavors that i never tasted when growing the same clones using GH products...
another benefit for me was that i was growing completely and utterly bored with chemicals, it was getting to a point that i would never look at my plants, i knew how often i needed to be in there to water them, and it was all i could do after a while to summon up the motivation to go care for them...there is nothing really all that new to read about in the chemical world imo...i was very bored after 3 years of using the same fertilizer every other day in the same amounts and getting the same results every single time. Switching to organics about 6-8 months ago, though, totally transformed that. i suddenly have a huge amount of new info to learn about, hundreds of different supplements and teas and compost and microscopic bugs that may or may not even exist...rock dust and kelp and apparently even dead bugs...beneficial predators and bat shit...it's pretty easy to get your feet wet, yet seems to have no end to the amount of learning and exploring needed to know everything about it, if that could ever happen...that is a HUGE plus for me because it keeps gardening interesting, and my product is much better when i am actually interested in my plants and caring for them.
i figure that with organics your much more likely to be getting your nutrients from multiple sources and would theoretically have a much more diverse and complete nutrient profile compared to say the lucas formula with maxi-bloom...sure, most plants wont show a deficiency with maxi-bloom but it doesn't mean they are necessarily getting exactly what they want when they want it...organics allows your plants to do that better...
just like with plants we know that as humans, we are healthier with a more diverse diet, vs eating the same thing at every meal for an extended amount of time, no matter how healthy said meal is. you can go to a grow shop and spend a grand on 10-20 different bottles of chemical ferts, boosters, and snake oils, only to find that you probably only ended up with the same 6 chemicals in every single bottle in varying amounts...i guess i don't see snake oils as much in organic, you could leave the store with 10 different organic supplements and end up with hundreds of different compounds, and every source seems to have different profiles of diverse goodies...when a plant is at the true peak of it's health, it's going to put out a more complex profile of terpenines, an effect that is compounded by a lack of harsh chemical salt in your buds...
when i switched to organic i couldn't believe the change in flavor, it was very pronounced, and i had been told my entire chemical growing career that i wouldn't be able to tell the difference at all so i was very very surprised. my weed is not only worlds smoother but i can taste subtle flavors that i never tasted when growing the same clones using GH products...
another benefit for me was that i was growing completely and utterly bored with chemicals, it was getting to a point that i would never look at my plants, i knew how often i needed to be in there to water them, and it was all i could do after a while to summon up the motivation to go care for them...there is nothing really all that new to read about in the chemical world imo...i was very bored after 3 years of using the same fertilizer every other day in the same amounts and getting the same results every single time. Switching to organics about 6-8 months ago, though, totally transformed that. i suddenly have a huge amount of new info to learn about, hundreds of different supplements and teas and compost and microscopic bugs that may or may not even exist...rock dust and kelp and apparently even dead bugs...beneficial predators and bat shit...it's pretty easy to get your feet wet, yet seems to have no end to the amount of learning and exploring needed to know everything about it, if that could ever happen...that is a HUGE plus for me because it keeps gardening interesting, and my product is much better when i am actually interested in my plants and caring for them.
Well said DC I'm doing my first organic grow with 4 plants in 10 gallon smart pots. 2 liberty haze and 2 pineapple chunks both from barnys farm. I'm pretty excited. I'm only growing 4 plants because where I live that's not a felony. On my last grow I grew 3 plants indoors and harvested a pound of pretty dank stuff. I'm so eager to learn Organics. I plan to take it outside this spring for a magnificent vegetable garden...
That compost tea looks good. Shouldn't be very strong. I never worked with worm castings so I am guessing the npk is lower than guano's. You might want to buy some bulk items, 5 pounds or a kilo. Also, planet natural sells compost tea extractor bags. Worth the money if you like organics. These are large bags and reusable. Typically, a true compost tea is taking actual compost and making tea. It's as strong as what you compost. You may want to add some guano to your brew. It's high in N if you get that guano and high in P if you get that one. First one (high N) for veg and high P for flower. Green sand in your mix will add a slow release of K. Langbeinite is also a source of K as well as magnesium and sulfur. Everwood farm is also a good place for organics in bulk. Don't forget micro's from glacier dust or azomite, perhaps both. You can also put worm castings, compost, and kelp, alfafa meal, all that stuff in your tea bag with guano.
umbralindigo
Member
Azomite is a clay and an entirely different deal that "rock dust", azomite should be used in small amounts as far as I know.
I would leave the guanos out, as I see their effectiveness as controversial. I'm guessing some is good and some is bad, but all in all I think compost is a better form of everything you would want out of a bat or seabird guano.
DinoCocks, thats the attitude man, good for you. Endless info out here in the nets and elsewhere.
I would leave the guanos out, as I see their effectiveness as controversial. I'm guessing some is good and some is bad, but all in all I think compost is a better form of everything you would want out of a bat or seabird guano.
DinoCocks, thats the attitude man, good for you. Endless info out here in the nets and elsewhere.
E
Eureka Springs Organics
You are spreading misinformation. Straight from the Azomite website
"Mineralogically, AZOMITE® can be described as a rhyolitic tuff breccia, which is a hard rock formation that formed from the dust of a volcano that erupted an estimated 30 million years ago."
Guanos effectiveness are far from controversial. The harvesting of guanos is where the controversy lies.
Compost, and worm castings work well in conjunction with each other. They are both great for making compost tea.
umbralindigo
Member
I used guanos for years. I think they hold less than true value.
And apparently here is what is said on azomite...
What is AZOMITE®?
AZOMITE® is a highly mineralized complex silica ore (Hydrated Sodium Calcium Aluminosilicate or HSCAS), mined in Utah from an ancient deposit left by an volcanic eruption that filled a small nearby seabed an estimated 30 million years ago. AZOMITE® is used as a naturally rich soil re-mineralizer for plants, as well as a feed ingredient for animals. In a typical chemical assay, AZOMITE® contains more than 70 trace minerals which include many rare earth elements (lanthanides). Many of these elements have been depleted from soils worldwide.
Which apparently is classified as a zeolite "rock powder".
But then there is in Harvey Lisle's "The Enlivened Rock Powders", and from it, "Another well known rock powder is Azomite, which is montmorillonite clay."
Hmmm? So maybe I am not spreading misinformation?
A search for HSCAS will pull up a number of websites claiming it is a clay.
Gonna have to say its a clay dude.
Look, I havent even looked at your products that you sell, but if I have stepped on your toes in any way against your business, I apologize. I will look at your products, and see if it correlates the tone you have taken.
And apparently here is what is said on azomite...
What is AZOMITE®?
AZOMITE® is a highly mineralized complex silica ore (Hydrated Sodium Calcium Aluminosilicate or HSCAS), mined in Utah from an ancient deposit left by an volcanic eruption that filled a small nearby seabed an estimated 30 million years ago. AZOMITE® is used as a naturally rich soil re-mineralizer for plants, as well as a feed ingredient for animals. In a typical chemical assay, AZOMITE® contains more than 70 trace minerals which include many rare earth elements (lanthanides). Many of these elements have been depleted from soils worldwide.
Which apparently is classified as a zeolite "rock powder".
But then there is in Harvey Lisle's "The Enlivened Rock Powders", and from it, "Another well known rock powder is Azomite, which is montmorillonite clay."
Hmmm? So maybe I am not spreading misinformation?
A search for HSCAS will pull up a number of websites claiming it is a clay.
Gonna have to say its a clay dude.
Look, I havent even looked at your products that you sell, but if I have stepped on your toes in any way against your business, I apologize. I will look at your products, and see if it correlates the tone you have taken.
the azomite guys will come along sometimes when these discussions develop to defend the "azomite isn't clay" stance they represent. honestly, IDK but, seems like it has to be very similar to montmorrillonite clay.
It can be used interchangeably in a soil recipe w/ either clay or rock dust & even has calcium like can be figured as part of your "liming" additions
It can be used interchangeably in a soil recipe w/ either clay or rock dust & even has calcium like can be figured as part of your "liming" additions
