should i really not bother with the ph??

[Easy7]

I would like to know how humic acid removes another chemical. All I know is you can make agar plates with tap water and grow all sorts of funky things. It's not pool water. But ro water is best.

I've grown better soil plants with ph water. The yeild is higher when it's dialed in. But I have burnt hydro organic plants when the meter broke. It's good to have back up electrodes.

 

[non]

yeah that was badly worded, should i say neutralizes it instead of removing. i could be wrong tho.

 

[Easy7]

Humic acid would have to turn the chem into something else. Chems don't up and go poof.

It's the enzymes from bacteria and fungi that you have to buffer. Lot's of times just ro or tap water is your buffer. Dolomite is strong and fast acting, calcium oyester shells are slower and more gentle.

It's good to know what reactions are taking place. Lot's of growers get lucky.

 

[non]

neutralizing as in forming a harmless compound. yeah i get lucky too, more into a practical approximation than science type. if i were pro i'd probably think differently.

 

[bugman52]

using soil I say no.ph adj

 

[umbralindigo]

Guys and gals, foliars do not need to be pH adjusted neither do teas of any kind. start with clean water, and build your living system.

Do you have an outdoor garden? Do you check the pH on tomatoes outside? NO. you do not. Mother Nature takes care of that for us.

Anyone who says otherwise is carelessly wrong.

You don't have to take my word on it. But don't be sold a line because you don't know any better.
Get some books... ----> ACRESUSA.com
Check their book store.
pH is unnecessary. Squash this shit, and don't let people sway it back and forth.

 

[Eureka Springs Organics]

Guys and gals, foliars do not need to be pH adjusted neither do teas of any kind. start with clean water, and build your living system.

Do you have an outdoor garden? Do you check the pH on tomatoes outside? NO. you do not. Mother Nature takes care of that for us.

Anyone who says otherwise is carelessly wrong.

You don't have to take my word on it. But don't be sold a line because you don't know any better.
Get some books... ----> ACRESUSA.com
Check their book store.
pH is unnecessary. Squash this shit, and don't let people sway it back and forth.

Certain foliars are indeed absorbed better at certain ph ranges. There is not one answer for all problems.

I actually think this has been talked about in Acres USA.

 

[AloeRuss]

True. I would not defend the PH measurement to the death. In fact it is a great chance this concept can be removed from gardening all together.
I just do it because I am very anal with my hobbies or my work. I enjoy tracking and writing things down. But that's me. You have to do your own thing mate

 

[umbralindigo]

I cant give rep yet, but yes, word Eureka, it is true that one size does not fit all. although, I cannot think of any organic foliars that need to be adjusted, and what would you adjust it with?
I can say that since we are focusing on foliars, I'm not all that convinced ANY are needed at all.
Will they help? Maybe, in certain "i gotta get this shit straight now" situations, then they are a life saver. Straight aloe juice spray downs are where its at.
Ever heard of David Wolfe? He is a nutritionist, and touts the benefits of aloe juice in foliar application. His stand point is that after many studies, aloe contains high amounts of polysaccharides and these contain large amounts of "ormus". The all enveloping life force as he might put it.
In aloe I have seen the greatest difference in plant health through foliar application.
Other than that I've seen first hand the power of straight compost teas, and no foliars vs. kelp teas and foliars of all sorts of botanicals.
Its night and day, get good compost and drench your soil with it once and awhile. Results in bud size, formation and general health are noticeable overnight.

 

[Eureka Springs Organics]

Reems, and albrecht, and many other agronomist have proven the benefits of foliar feeds. That being said Compost tea can't be beat. However when growing in shitty soil that may take 2-3 years to turn to good soil you have no choice other than to foliar feed. If you don't you may not eat.

Everything has it's application. I foliar feed multiple times per week on anything I grow. I can't say I would ever change that. Unless I just get lazy.

 

[bigshrimp]

If your ph'ing your water besides in the case of suspect high alkalinity water your wasting your time and possibly harming your grow imo.

Too much acid can kill your bacteria and trying to control the PH of a properly built soil mix is gonna create problems and headaches for you. If you have to worry about PH imo it means your soil mix garbage and needs to be adjusted.

In a living organic soil the PH can rapidly change from one part of the soil to the next further complicating things. Leave measuring PH to the hydro guys.

Huh if dumping water ph'd to 6 something is so horrible to soil ecology than i wonder what water at ph of 9 is doing. Probably alot worse.

I'd also like to see a recyclable soil mix for 3-7 gallons that can take high alkalinity high ph water. Not everyone is running 30 gallon no tills.

High Alkalinity water + No leaching = calcerous soil, simple as that.

 

[DinosaurCocks]

i recently bought a bottle of hummox as an omri certified ph up, i put 30ml's into a gallon of my mix and it brought the ph up to 9, which is crazy high, i know, but i need it whenever i open a new bag of happy frog, i don't know if other people have this issue but every bag i open has a ph of like 3-4 and curls my leaves like crazy, despite the organics...one watering at 9 and the next two waterings at 8 seem to mostly solve the problem for good, though.

i have a ph tester and have tested my water once i mix in all my organic nutes, it's pretty close to neutral so i never test it anymore...plus the directions on my natures nectar nute line say don't worry about the ph, organics tend to self correct and tend to be available to the plant in a wider range of ph's.

 

[bigshrimp]

i recently bought a bottle of hummox as an omri certified ph up, i put 30ml's into a gallon of my mix and it brought the ph up to 9, which is crazy high, i know, but i need it whenever i open a new bag of happy frog, i don't know if other people have this issue but every bag i open has a ph of like 3-4 and curls my leaves like crazy, despite the organics...one watering at 9 and the next two waterings at 8 seem to mostly solve the problem for good, though.

i have a ph tester and have tested my water once i mix in all my organic nutes, it's pretty close to neutral so i never test it anymore...plus the directions on my natures nectar nute line say don't worry about the ph, organics tend to self correct and tend to be available to the plant in a wider range of ph's.

You'd be better off liming your happy frog a little than using ph up.

 

[Easy7]

Soil bacteria do best at ph of 6 - 7.5. A healthy soil should have all additives checked for ph. I don't know why happy frog would throw ph off so much. Sounds like to much ph up too (obviously). Somestimes drops of ph up or down is wise.

I never tested the ph of humic acid. Never worked with it before. Most organics are plenty alkaline. But if it's an acid it's surely not alkaline.

I never ph top dressings. Can't test run off with outdoor in the ground plants either. It's a margin of error & never had issues with anything other than hydro. The ph of soil here and a lot of the country is alkaline. Most of my ferts are alkaline. So a little acid to the dressing is good. Not that I dump citric acid around.

 

[Easy7]

I forgot to add that soil fungi that help plants love low ph levels. Most bacteria in soil thrive at mid range ph. The plant itself does best at slightly acidic ph. It would be helpful and interesting if people would test different organic dry ferts for ph. I've done this with what I had around awhile back. Surprising to find that sea bird guano was alkaline as well as epsoma. Never tested bat guano, kelp, alfalfa, humic acid or whatever else.

 

[Eureka Springs Organics]

I forgot to add that soil fungi that help plants love low ph levels. Most bacteria in soil thrive at mid range ph. The plant itself does best at slightly acidic ph. It would be helpful and interesting if people would test different organic dry ferts for ph. I've done this with what I had around awhile back. Surprising to find that sea bird guano was alkaline as well as epsoma. Never tested bat guano, kelp, alfalfa, humic acid or whatever else.

You can find the ph of any amendment on their msds sheet. No need to test as it should have already been done for you.

That being said, some msds sheets are blank as hell.

Irony I believe.

 

[O.G.#1]

Im using the whole Canna Terra line of nutes with the Terra Pro Plus substrate, they recommend a nutrient solution ph between 5.8 and 6.2. This lower number than usual is to off set salt build up and to work in conjunction with the Lime charge provided in the Terra Pro Plus. Never had healthier plants!!!!

 

[DinosaurCocks]

You'd be better off liming your happy frog a little than using ph up.

how is lime better than humus? lately ive heard a lot of not so great things about lime, thats why so many people are switching to oyster shells?

I don't know why happy frog would throw ph off so much. Sounds like to much ph up too (obviously). Somestimes drops of ph up or down is wise.

ya my happy frog has always been like this, before it wasn't a problem because i wasn't organic, and i would just ph my water to 8 for the first 3 weeks or so to fix it...it corrects fairly quickly and then never creeps up again so i never really thought twice about it. it is definitely NOT at a point where i can just let it spike for a while to "potentially" benefit my plants, it majorly jacks the hell out of them...i don't know if my shop stores it for long periods or what but everybody i know who buys happy frog from the same shop has the same problem so it's not something i am doing, it's just super acidic out of the bag.

I never tested the ph of humic acid. Never worked with it before. Most organics are plenty alkaline. But if it's an acid it's surely not alkaline.

hummox has a ph between 10 and 11 and is omri certified organic, so it seems like the perfect ph up for me, though as i stated above i only bother testing the when i get a new bag of soil and then i stop testing it as soon as the soil become alkaline enough that my plants leaves wont start twisting and curling. furthermore i since it raises the ph so fast and i don't ph test my grows i won't be using it except for neutralizing new happy frog a bit when i first buy it.

 

[surfguitar]

Huh if dumping water ph'd to 6 something is so horrible to soil ecology than i wonder what water at ph of 9 is doing. Probably alot worse.

I'd also like to see a recyclable soil mix for 3-7 gallons that can take high alkalinity high ph water. Not everyone is running 30 gallon no tills.

High Alkalinity water + No leaching = calcerous soil, simple as that.

Did you misunderstand me? I don't see any problem PH'ing your water to a reasonable range. I think the problem arises when you try to adjust the PH of your teas and growing medium.

 

[Granger2]

BigShrimp said: Huh if dumping water ph'd to 6 something is so horrible to soil ecology than i wonder what water at ph of 9 is doing. Probably alot worse.

BigShrimp,
Excellent point. I've never understood how pHing water, nutes gets some people all riled up. What does it hurt?

I know from personal experience that, in coco, repeatedly applying organic nutes with a pH in the 4's will cause problems.

But in any medium, what is wrong with pHing what you apply to optimal, even if unnecessary?

If D.Cocks applies high pH water/nutes to his very acid Happy Frog the first few waterings, and it fixes the problem permanently as he says, why is liming better? -granger