Probably been covered but what ideally should I be aiming for in terms of watts per square (or cubic) feet during veg, presuming everything else (temp, rh, etc.) are dialed in? I presume I should be bumping it up to near 50 watts per sq ft (or to whatever I'm running in flower) before I flip, but how much is overkill, and how many watts should I be running during each week, etc.?
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Vegging Vert Q
- Thread starter flat9
- Start date
I've always tried to use 50wpsf minimum and have gone as high as 80wpsf but at that high of a wpsf the cooling needs to be upped big time!
I like to stay between 50wpsf and 66wpsf with 7500 to 10,000 lumens per sf.
My last grow was in a 3x3x6 tent with a 400w HPS hung bare bulb vertical with five plants encircling the vertical bare bulb...that's about 45wpsf but I still got 10-12 ounces of high quality bud.I know if I were to bump it up to 50-66wpsf my yield would have been better,but I also know if I had monocropped five clones from the same mother plant instead of growing five different plants that my yield would have been better...possibly 1lb give or take an ounce.
I like to stay between 50wpsf and 66wpsf with 7500 to 10,000 lumens per sf.
My last grow was in a 3x3x6 tent with a 400w HPS hung bare bulb vertical with five plants encircling the vertical bare bulb...that's about 45wpsf but I still got 10-12 ounces of high quality bud.I know if I were to bump it up to 50-66wpsf my yield would have been better,but I also know if I had monocropped five clones from the same mother plant instead of growing five different plants that my yield would have been better...possibly 1lb give or take an ounce.
StayFoolish22
Member
Higher watts = less stretch which can be bad for vert no? I dialed the ballasts down with this thinking.
D
DHF
Waaaay back when vertical bare bulb setups began with low plant numbers , it was beat into our heads to veg with horizontal hoods to stack nodes and build laterals , so we did....and....
Once put into bloomage 12/12 , the proper hybrids blasted off upward as well as outward to fill in the sideways canopy that guarantees consistent returns with monocropped rooms.....
Even when I went with increased plant numbers with buncha fliprooms , I still pre-vegged with 8 bulb 432 watt T-5`s @ 50 watts per sq ft to as stated above , stack nodes and build laterals....
Plants that`re vegged with bare bulbs bush out sideways toward the light stimulus waaay more than if vegged with horizontal hoods with proper wattage to keep intermodal spacing to a minimum for cola stackage after end of stretch....IOW...
As long as yas veg with the same wattage as yas flower with , there`ll never be any problems with lumen shock/plant stall/transplant shock once put in the big rooms to flower and finish.....so....finally...
After cuts are fully rooted under low light and then pre-vegged with T-5`s or MH`s @ 50 watts per sq ft , THEN they`re poised during 3-4 weeks of stretch to explode with foliage and budsite formation FTW without the plants bein all stretched out and growin stem between budsites.......
IME.....It`s best to veg horizontally , but I see a lotta folks veg in the flower rooms and then flip em , and they kill it so who am I ta say howta do shit , but........
Guaranteed after all them yrs of growin every which way I could for the best possible end product , what worked for me consistently is what I`ve tried ta help folks with over the yrs and have had nothing but thanks for upping their bottomline returns ....anyways....
Many ways ta skin a mule , but very few ways ta streamline and dial every aspect of a setup without having done it repeatedly over and over till it`s imbedded ......Just keep strokiin Flat....You`ll get there....
Peace.....DHF.....
........
Once put into bloomage 12/12 , the proper hybrids blasted off upward as well as outward to fill in the sideways canopy that guarantees consistent returns with monocropped rooms.....
Even when I went with increased plant numbers with buncha fliprooms , I still pre-vegged with 8 bulb 432 watt T-5`s @ 50 watts per sq ft to as stated above , stack nodes and build laterals....
Plants that`re vegged with bare bulbs bush out sideways toward the light stimulus waaay more than if vegged with horizontal hoods with proper wattage to keep intermodal spacing to a minimum for cola stackage after end of stretch....IOW...
As long as yas veg with the same wattage as yas flower with , there`ll never be any problems with lumen shock/plant stall/transplant shock once put in the big rooms to flower and finish.....so....finally...
After cuts are fully rooted under low light and then pre-vegged with T-5`s or MH`s @ 50 watts per sq ft , THEN they`re poised during 3-4 weeks of stretch to explode with foliage and budsite formation FTW without the plants bein all stretched out and growin stem between budsites.......
IME.....It`s best to veg horizontally , but I see a lotta folks veg in the flower rooms and then flip em , and they kill it so who am I ta say howta do shit , but........
Guaranteed after all them yrs of growin every which way I could for the best possible end product , what worked for me consistently is what I`ve tried ta help folks with over the yrs and have had nothing but thanks for upping their bottomline returns ....anyways....
Many ways ta skin a mule , but very few ways ta streamline and dial every aspect of a setup without having done it repeatedly over and over till it`s imbedded ......Just keep strokiin Flat....You`ll get there....
Peace.....DHF.....
........
Not really stayfoolish.First of when doing a vert,a good 50/50 Sativa/Indica hybrid that has good stretch but also good branching is what you want.And the more distance between nodes,well the less and looser the bud.
Best advice I can give is listen to DHF for sure,bro preaches gospel when it comes to vert!
Others would include Bobblehead and Mr.D
There are a few others too but those three have been major help here in vertville...once you vert,you never revert!
Best advice I can give is listen to DHF for sure,bro preaches gospel when it comes to vert!
Others would include Bobblehead and Mr.D
There are a few others too but those three have been major help here in vertville...once you vert,you never revert!
I vegged vert for a set-up I had and it worked great. It actually made my leftovers turn into mega-tree's, well for me they were anyway. I had a 400 mh hanging bare bulb, and I flowered with a 400 and 600 hps. Room was 5.5 ft. wide and 4 ft. deep, with 8 ft. ceilings. The first harvest for half of the room was a half lb., and it was a few different strains. For me vegging vert was a way to see which of my strains would go where in my room. Because for me once I figure out the "sweet spots" in my room for certain strains, my yield always goes up. (sidenote: deadhead og is an awesome strain for vert). Just my 2 cents.....
Depends on the strain as to how much light I give them.
If I have a real leggy plany I blast it with light to slow the stretch.
If I have a plant that does not stretch I raise the light high to cause it to stretch. That way in flower I don't have to remove alot of plant mass that will be shaded.
I veg with a bare bulb that hangs at a set height. I move the plants up and down depending on how the structure is. To stretchy and it gets raised up to fill in. To short and full gets lowered to cause some stretch. I have a shelf that I use to raise the plants on. To lower I just set them on the floor in front of the shelf.
If I have a real leggy plany I blast it with light to slow the stretch.
If I have a plant that does not stretch I raise the light high to cause it to stretch. That way in flower I don't have to remove alot of plant mass that will be shaded.
I veg with a bare bulb that hangs at a set height. I move the plants up and down depending on how the structure is. To stretchy and it gets raised up to fill in. To short and full gets lowered to cause some stretch. I have a shelf that I use to raise the plants on. To lower I just set them on the floor in front of the shelf.
Generally speaking if your environment can handle it then add more watts.
To me, for vegging in general, it makes sense to try to limit the watts for efficiency's sake, if the output is plenty to keep bringing in the amount of foliage needed in the flowering space.
As in, no point in overvegging, as it's a waste of electricity, time, and can mess up the plants structure.
But if you don't have a flowering room full of plants running 12/12 every day of the year, then use +50w/sq ft in veg because the faster the plants veg the earlier you can start 12/12 and thus the earlier your harvest is ready.
So if you're talking about vegging plants in the same setup/space that they will be flowering in, then yea use the same amount of lighting during veg as you would when you change the timer to 12/12.
To me, for vegging in general, it makes sense to try to limit the watts for efficiency's sake, if the output is plenty to keep bringing in the amount of foliage needed in the flowering space.
As in, no point in overvegging, as it's a waste of electricity, time, and can mess up the plants structure.
But if you don't have a flowering room full of plants running 12/12 every day of the year, then use +50w/sq ft in veg because the faster the plants veg the earlier you can start 12/12 and thus the earlier your harvest is ready.
So if you're talking about vegging plants in the same setup/space that they will be flowering in, then yea use the same amount of lighting during veg as you would when you change the timer to 12/12.
I don't know where to write, so sorry for it being here... anyhow, the only reason I am writting here is to ask nicely DHF if you could PM me, I can't... I have a few specific question about vert and don't want to thrash all over the forum... so DHF, when you see this please contact me.
and for everybody else, read read read! If you would have read at least ONE topic, you would know everything! and as far as I am concerned, DHF is a faking prince of vert since he had Heath THE KING for mentor!
"strike out boys, for the hills! I can find that hole in the wall and i know that they never will."
one love
and for everybody else, read read read! If you would have read at least ONE topic, you would know everything! and as far as I am concerned, DHF is a faking prince of vert since he had Heath THE KING for mentor!
"strike out boys, for the hills! I can find that hole in the wall and i know that they never will."
one love
D
DHF
I`ve never claimed to be the prince of anything dewd , and you need 50 posts to pm , so hang in there or start a thread.....and.....
I assure you I`m not a faking ANYTHING , so please refrain from belittling me while on the same note asking for my help ?....Not a very class act , but for the record Heath and I collaborated/tossed ideas back and forth for many many yrs , and Heath IS the man in my book as well......Very knowledgeable and experienced....now....
I BEGAN with bare bulbs back in `95 , and when I met Heath at old dead and gone places , he was growin SOG with adjust-a-wings , so I ran bare bulbs waaaay before he did , but Heath was always excellent about pics and illustrations , and I`ve never started a thread in my life NOR posted a pic.....but...
Many ways ta skin a mule , and Heath`s 1 of my oldest and dearest Growbro`s and has helped MANY folks before retiring from the forums to raise a family , and guaranteed if he was here as we speak you MIGHT be getting a tongue lashing for callin me a fake .....
Nothin but real knowledge and experience from this old ass......bet on it.....anyways....
Good luck.....DHF.....
.......DHF so sorry for the missinterpretation. I have deep respect for you and would NEVER call you fake. I named and called you the prince because I was reading many topics regarding vert grow and also stumble upon Heath's. and also now I know why I can't find none of yours... but since he is gone from forums I turned to you for your knowledge.
didn't really knew all that, that you encouraged HIM about vert, so that basically makes you THE King of vert! and the f-words + typos(tnx farmari)...when I am excited, this shit just blows out of me...
anyway, sorry again and hope you'll still help me. but I think I can't wait for 50 posts and new thread would be stupid... since I have just a couple specific Qs and that's it. MAYBE I could expand that thread into a grow log of some sort but not a big fan of pics up here too...
you know what, I'll just shoot one, since it's the right thread: how long do I need to veg rooted clones to eventually get to max 1m(finnished plant) in height? flower room: 150x150x200, 16plants around the one 600w (philips pia plus hps) and, are more indica strains good for vert or just go for more sativa? if, what's the veg for one and the other?
respect man!
peace
didn't really knew all that, that you encouraged HIM about vert, so that basically makes you THE King of vert! and the f-words + typos(tnx farmari)...when I am excited, this shit just blows out of me...
anyway, sorry again and hope you'll still help me. but I think I can't wait for 50 posts and new thread would be stupid... since I have just a couple specific Qs and that's it. MAYBE I could expand that thread into a grow log of some sort but not a big fan of pics up here too...
you know what, I'll just shoot one, since it's the right thread: how long do I need to veg rooted clones to eventually get to max 1m(finnished plant) in height? flower room: 150x150x200, 16plants around the one 600w (philips pia plus hps) and, are more indica strains good for vert or just go for more sativa? if, what's the veg for one and the other?
respect man!
peace
I'll step in and answer one question for my boy DeadHeadFred...
You want a good 50/50 or 60/40 hybrid so that it stretches vertically as well as filling out horizontally.
So if going with a 60/40 hybrid it really doesn't matter if Sativa or Indica makes up more of the hybrid.
Full on Indicas would be good in a colloseum (high plant count) vert SoG,but a heavily Indica leaning hybrid would too.
As DHF always says,there is more than one way to skin a mule.
It takes runs under your belt with a particular strain to learn how it likes to grow best,how much/little it likes to be watered/fed,trained,etc.
Best way to find out is like Nike's slogan...Just Do It.
It wasn't anything big time and it was my first vert grow but you can check out my grow log (check mu sig) for any ideas of what and what nit to do.
Even with piss poor canopy management,and the fact that I was running five different unkown strains from unkown AAA+ bagseed I still got about 12 ounces total from just a 400w HPS hung bare bulb vertical in a 3x3x6 SJ DR90 tent.I was also using FFOF and GH Flora series as per lucas method (8ml micro/16ml bloom per gallon of water).
Monocropped with five clones from the same mom,and better canopy management/training I can see about a pound coming out of my tent give or take an ounce.
Curently running three clones from my best yielding plant from the first run (back left corner plant) in 2 liter coco hempy buckets.Plan on pruning some lower branches off to make more clones and doing 5-8 clones in 2 liter coco hempy's around my 400w HPS.For now I'm going to flower out the three I already have in a few weeks because I'm running out of smoke.
Yes I have grown before going vert lol.I started growing at the age of 15 I'm in my young 30's now.
I started out with 2x 4' two bulb floro's,then moved up to a 400w HPS after two grows under my belt.
Best I did horizontally/flat canopy growing was about 8 ounces in a 2x2.5x6 prefab closet/wardrobe high density SoG style.Back then I was using some soil from a local nursery and FF nutes (Grow Big,Tiger Bloom,Big Bloom,and the three dry additives,Open Seasame,Beastie Blooms,and Cha-Ching).
In short...switching to vert my veg time was a tad longer,switched from the soil at the local nursery (too much peat,and they started adding time released fertilizer),switched from the FF line to just GH FloraMicro and FloraBloom @ 8ml Micro/16ml Bloom per gallon of water,pH'd to 6.0 or 6.5 as per lucas formula.Also upgraded to a 3x3x6 SJ DR90 from a 2x2.5x6 prefab closet/wardrobe.That setup got me about 12 ounces with little to no larf,and it was five different unknown strains/plants encircling the bulb.
Given that,and the fact that there was poor canopy management (due to it being my first vert grow) I was still happy to increase my yeild by another 1/4 pound or 25%.
Like I said in my previous post...Had I monocropped,and enforced a better canopy management program,I believe I could have got a pound,give or take an ounce.
I have three clones of my best yeilding bitch vegging in 2liter coco hempy's right now (vegging flat).In a few weeks I'll be taking clones and flowering out the three donors because I'm running out of smoke and oil.After that I'll be flowering out 5-8 of the clones (monocrop ftw!).
So from .56 to .6gpw flat,to .84gpw my first vert.And in soil to top that off!
Interested to see what I can achieve with 5 clones (from the same mom a.k.a. monocropped) in coco hempy's encircling my 400w bare bulb vertical...I see a gpw for sure,possibly more!
I started out with 2x 4' two bulb floro's,then moved up to a 400w HPS after two grows under my belt.
Best I did horizontally/flat canopy growing was about 8 ounces in a 2x2.5x6 prefab closet/wardrobe high density SoG style.Back then I was using some soil from a local nursery and FF nutes (Grow Big,Tiger Bloom,Big Bloom,and the three dry additives,Open Seasame,Beastie Blooms,and Cha-Ching).
In short...switching to vert my veg time was a tad longer,switched from the soil at the local nursery (too much peat,and they started adding time released fertilizer),switched from the FF line to just GH FloraMicro and FloraBloom @ 8ml Micro/16ml Bloom per gallon of water,pH'd to 6.0 or 6.5 as per lucas formula.Also upgraded to a 3x3x6 SJ DR90 from a 2x2.5x6 prefab closet/wardrobe.That setup got me about 12 ounces with little to no larf,and it was five different unknown strains/plants encircling the bulb.
Given that,and the fact that there was poor canopy management (due to it being my first vert grow) I was still happy to increase my yeild by another 1/4 pound or 25%.
Like I said in my previous post...Had I monocropped,and enforced a better canopy management program,I believe I could have got a pound,give or take an ounce.
I have three clones of my best yeilding bitch vegging in 2liter coco hempy's right now (vegging flat).In a few weeks I'll be taking clones and flowering out the three donors because I'm running out of smoke and oil.After that I'll be flowering out 5-8 of the clones (monocrop ftw!).
So from .56 to .6gpw flat,to .84gpw my first vert.And in soil to top that off!
Interested to see what I can achieve with 5 clones (from the same mom a.k.a. monocropped) in coco hempy's encircling my 400w bare bulb vertical...I see a gpw for sure,possibly more!
