Are there better Values than these CFLs?

[DogDad]

[FONT=&quot]I spent quite a bit of time looking around and in 42W, these two were the best I have found so far. You guys may have seen something better and if so, I would appreciate your suggestions.[/FONT]

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[FONT=&quot]Thanks.
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[FONT=&quot]TCP Brand - 42 watt 6500k 2800 Lumen - $12.95 http://www.lightbulbsurplus.com/ind...4&gclid=CJnd96_947sCFWRk7AodiTMAKA#googlebase [/FONT] [FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Reviews: http://www.1000bulbs.com/product/62709/FC42-MS65.html?tid=pacc#BVRRWidgetID[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]TCP Brand - 42 watt 2700k 2800 Lumen - $11.85 http://www.lightbulbsurplus.com/ind...t_info&cPath=622_7_9_557_561&products_id=1283[/FONT]

 

[PetFlora]

CFLs bad, LEDs good. Seriously

If/when a cl breaks, you and your dog will be breathing toxic mercury vapors

Beyond the health component, today's household leds provide a much better light intensity for mj. Lowes/HD carry various brands ~ 10w is ~ $13, but is equal to much more than that

 

[justanotherbozo]

...these are called PLL's and are a newish form of CFL that is not only straight rather than twisted so deliver light over a canopy more efficiently, they are also remote ballasted so much of the heat is removed from the growspace.

...these pics are of my clone/seed start cab and the bulbs are 55watters and they were approx. $10.00 per bulb when i bought them a couple years ago, definitely less than $18.00 per bulb.

...btw, these are available in a variety of Kelvin temps and wattages with the lower wattage bulbs being shorter, physically, ...the 55's are approx. 23 inchs from tip to tip.

...also, with CFLs, you get MUCH more bang for your buck with the lower wattage bulbs, for example, when i was growing under CFLs i preferred the 23 and 26watters which can almost always be found in 4 packs for under $10.00, ...then if you look around, i'd bet you can find an instant rebate for $3.00 off that which brings down the cost to about a buck a bulb, ...so 2x 26watters gives you 52 actual watts for about $2.00.

...btw, i'd like to agree with PetFlora but i have no personal experience with LEDs, i believe them to be the best, although the most expensive, option but i don't know for sure yet.

peace, bozo

 

[The OrigF/clred]

pretty much what [FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]justanotherbozo[/FONT] said

here's a link to 40 watt CFL on amazon for $8.99 - FEIT bulbs seem to be decent quality. There are also 45 watters for similiar pricing - do a search

http://www.amazon.com/Feit-Electric...id=1388845160&sr=8-5&keywords=cfl+light+bulbs Amazon seemed to have the best CFL pricing.

The PL-L bulbs - I helped a bud assemble a housing using six 55 watt bulbs, prices are down to $4 per bulb for non-brand name bulbs on 1000bulbs.com, $7-8 for Phillips or Sylvania bulbs

I really liked the even spray of light down on the canopy from the PL-L bulbs. A lot of folks don't like CFLs cause they feel the curly q shape of the bulb means less light is directly beamed downward.

In my bud's housing (24X24X 2") we managed to fit six of the PL-Ls and two of the 65 watt CFLs in the center. We also fabricated a curved reflector over the top half of those two CFL bulbs to direct as much light downward as possible. To my eye, the two 65 watt CFL put down as much light as the PL-L bulbs, ie comparing the 2 CFLs to 2 PL-L 55 watters, so the PL-Ls with 20 watts less is or are more efficient. Btw, the 65 watt bulbs were $19 per shipped and when i looked at them recently, they had come down to $15. And there are CFLs, iirc, up to 125 watt that use a household socket base (E26/E27). Here's a 85 watter for $13 shipped http://www.amazon.com/KAEZI-Watt-St...id=1388845160&sr=8-8&keywords=cfl+light+bulbs. I'm sure there are better deals - i just did a quick search. But total wattage with the CFLs was 460W.

My only hesitation on the PL-Ls is the cost to assemble a housing. Ballasts were $50 for brand name (Fulham), but for the six bulbs, with the socket bases, hanging clips etc his total ran $185 shipped for a 330 watt fixture - he already had the housing and cannabilized the power cords from old equipment. We also fabricatd our own reflectors for each PL-L from material he already had. Quality reflectors seem to range $16-20 per, which starts to make it an expensive project.

The job the CFL/PL-L combo did was great - plants got 38" tall, and about a 36" diameter to the bushes with a really decent yield. The housing only covered those two plants. Light Penetration on the lower half of the plants wasn't that bad but could have been better. Toward the end of flowering, he added 6 hanging CFLs (40 watters), hanging down into the bushes. He'd trained the plants into a colliseum type grow. One advantage to the CFL & PL-Ls, you can keep the bulbs real close to the canopy - actually you have to - i think folks recommend 3-5 inch above the canopy and that's what he maintained. He'd tie off any branches that got too tall, so the canopy was real even across the top.

My plans when i start my grow, i'm thinking to go with six PL-Ls, with the two 65 or 85 watt CFLs in the center, and make the housing so i can split it in half later, to position 3 PL-Ls on either side of a 315 watt CMH housing. But the economy of running say, 6 of the 85 watt CFLs for $78 + 6 x $4 for the double sockets is tempting.

For the PL-Ls, check 1000bulbs.com - they were the cheapest for bulbs and ballasts when we bought his. There are more economically priced ballasts if you look around, but we liked the name brand vs no-name ballasts.

and if you do go that route, i'd suggest staying with the name brand bulbs, phillips or sylvania -

if you get curious on the PL-Ls, there's a great thread at https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?threadid=132787

hope that helps

 

[DogDad]

Thanks guys, Pl-L's ok. I'm in too...

What setup would you guys suggest that would kick some serious ass?

 

[The OrigF/clred]

the PL-L club thread i posted above will answer that

only suggestion i'll make, be sure the ballast you buy is meant to supply the PL-L tubes - In the fulham workhorse line, i think there were only 2 or 3 that fulham rated for PL-Ls, so be sure to check that. It was listed in the spec manuals for each ballast, otherwise the folks at 1000bulbs.com are pretty knowledgeable and helpful

2nd suggestion, i've always known to generally avoid full design load on electrical items - generally try to stay at 75-80% of full rated power use. My bud's fulham ballasts are 220W, and we ran three 55W PL-L bulbs to a ballast. Some folks run 100%, so you decide

 

[justanotherbozo]

...they also make a 50watt bulb so the Workhorse 8 can run 4 of these with 20watts to spare giving you 200watts rather than the 165watts you get with 3x 55watters.

Philips 34753-4 - 50 Watt - CFL

a couple of other things worthy of note is first that that link that The OrigF/clred provided above to the PL-L club will have all the information you'll need to make a good decision on what to buy with links to sources for WHERE to buy AND wiring instructions so if you go read this thread, by the time you finish you will KNOW what you need to make this work.

PL-L club

...the second thing will actually be covered in that thread but it is that not all PL-Ls have the same socket setup so you need to be sure when you put things together you get bulbs that will fit the sockets you have chosen which in most cases will be the 2g11's.

...if you have the money pre-made fixtures are out there, many sold for fish tanks and reef tanks and the like.

peace, bozo

 

[The OrigF/clred]

...they also make a 50watt bulb so the Workhorse 8 can run 4 of these with 20watts to spare giving you 200watts rather than the 165watts you get with 3x 55watters.

Philips 34753-4 - 50 Watt - CFL

.....

peace, bozo

yeah, knew that, but at the time i ordered for my bud's fixture, i was trying to get as much "horsepower under the hood" as possible. He gave me a 2nd 24X24X2" metal housing (he had taken down 2 40 yr old flourscent fixtures using "U" shaped bulbs). I'll probably go with the same 55W as i can squeeze 6 in there (3" wide reflectors) and still have 6" wide spot in the center for the 65 or 85W CFLs

 

[DogDad]

Just read most of 62 pages of the PL-L thread. I took a lot of notes.

There are more than a few options but a couple of things stick out.

I didn't read where the 4 x 55w failed with the Workhorse 8. Everyone I read seemed to say it would run 4 fine in spite of the warning label.

People are getting great results running 2x 2700k 1x 6500k and some at 4100k for all bulbs.

AHsupply kits, people seem to like.

One question remains and that's if the Advance Centium ICN-2S54 can actually output more lumens than the workhorse 8 using the same 55w bulb.

 

[The OrigF/clred]

don't take my choosing the workhorse 8 as any indication of it being "the" ballast to go with.

I have no electrical knowledge above the fred flintstone level - i just wanted an established name especially in terms of warranty. In the fulham workhorse line, i think there were 3 ballasts that were applicable, but there are other mfgr ballasts as well.

iirc, when i ordered them, the wh8 was the highest rated power -

on the 220W output and running 4 bulbs, again i do not have electronics background so take this with a grain of salt. I look at it like i do a car - most automotive engines, no matter what their rated hp, are generally only intended to operate at 35 - 65% of full power - going down the hgwy at 65 mph, you're probably in the 55% range, bump your speed to 75mph and it jumps to 70% (a disproportionate jump), 85mph and probably in the area of 85-90% (at highway speeds, you're pushing or plowing a lot of air, so even though your payload (wgt) hasn't changed, the load has increased. But drive your car at 85mph or more for lengthy periods of time and you'll find you've reduced the svc life of that engine to maybe 25-35,000 miles vs 100,000 if you drove it as intended.

My concern was obviously not loosing a ballast(s) during my bud's grow. jab's suggestion to run four 50w bulbs actually isn't a bad idea, but in my case, if you do the math, that would reduce my light lumens - even replacing the 2 65w CFL bulbs, and using that space for 2 more 50w pl-ls, total light energy drops - and there's no more room in the lamp housing without removing those 2 CFLs. So that's the only reason i'll stay with what i did for my bud's housing on the one i'm going to build for myself. I am debating cutting that 24x24" housing in half so i can position one 12X24" housing on each end of the CMH lamp, kind of a "wing" light fixture - if so, then i might run four 50w pl-ls per 12" wing, and do without the cfls

I don't know why some ballasts are and some are not rated for PL-Ls, and to make it more confusing, some in that PL-l club thread indicated they used fulham ballasts that were not rated for the PL-Ls and hadn't experienced any issues.

fyi though, for whatever reason, on the fulham lamp chart, even for 50w or 55w PL-Ls or twin tube lamps, they only go up to 3 lamps for the wh8 - but for 4 50w bulbs they recommend the workhorse 7 (also 220W) but do not show the 7 being eligible for supporting three 55w bulbs. not sure why
- here's the link http://www.1000bulbs.com/pdf/Fulham-Lamp-Chart-brochure.pdf

plus i just noticed, both the wh7 & wh8 have dropped in price - they're $39.95 each now


fwiw

if you can find the correct phillips ballasts for the PL-Ls you might consider them - only complaint my bud has with the fulhams, he's got a heck of a radio signal interference on his AM radio - rives gave us some suggestions to check, and had someone over that does have electronic background and we couldn't find the cause.

 

[DinosaurCocks]

cfl's are bad, they aren't efficient, the larger the wattage the larger the percentage of electricity is being wasted as heat, rather than light, because half the surface area of the bulb is pointing in on itself. their only benefit is they can fit in small spaces like hollowed out cpu's and rubbermade tubs...and that is only useful until you become an adult and stop growing in your moms basement...

you see guys with 400 watts of cfl's in a tent and it's like a bad joke...they put out just as much heat as a 400w hps at that point but the buds are half the size and fluffy, and they never seem to fully mature...not to mention the 150-200 bucks that it cost to buy ten 42 watt bulbs, sockets and wiring...would also buy you a 400w hps setup if you look around online...in my opinion there are NO good applications for cfl's...no applications where an led, t5, or hid light wouldn't work better anyway...

if you want to go florescent go with t5's, they are much more efficient than cfl's, though i only use flouro for vegging, and nowadays those led ufo's are getting so cheep it's pretty much a tossup...sure the cheep ones aren't the latest models usually, but they work fine for vegging.

 

[waveguide]

as far as larger red/"warm" cfls go, i found the 42w to be visually brighter than the 56?w and the 65?w (something in the 50s and 60s anyway..) the 50 wasn't bad but the 60 is kinda mellow and huge. some of the 42w bulbs seem to give off just as much light.

cfls have a niche.. 250w or over i'd go HID (with blue cfl supplements). under, if you can afford it, building your own LED is more effective and efficient.

 

[surfguitar]

Check the dollar store, I just found 42w CFL's for 59c each...