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Rebuilding Appion G5

Gray Wolf

A Posse ad Esse. From Possibility to realization.
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Because of all the current sturm and drang surrounding recovery pumps, I ordered a Haskel pneumatic to carry the day, until we can sort it out. I got the longer design, which has the two cylinders separated by enough space, that a leak on one will not compromise the integrity of the other.

I started with a Robinair non oil less recovery system, but decided not to use it because of its not oil less design.

I wore out a brand new Microvac oil less in about two days trying to pull vacuum with it.

I blew my first Appion in two weeks developing the process and essentially running it dry for long periods, but the rebuild lasted longer than a year with regular use, after I stopped trying to pull lower than 22" Hg.

We've since picked up half a dozen other Appions and our success rate has plummeted. In rebuilding them, I also notice more half shims appearing under the cylinders than previously, so it would appear the alignment isn't as precise has it once was.

Perhaps with the added volume, their quality has fallen and they are using things they might not have in the past.

We've tried the CPS TR-21 in conjunction with a Mt-69 after cooler with good success, but we have also fried a couple of them.

We are experimenting with Regis's Caresaver, but can't in good faith use a compressor that isn't oil less, because of the possibility of co mingling of the two streams, and the implications if something goes wrong, goes wrong, goes wrong....................

One of the reasons that our initial Appions lasted better than the later ones, is that our process has shifted from large quantities of oil for cancer patients, to longer runs at subzero temperatures to produce carboxylic acid. A 15 minute run, suddenly becomes a 1 hour run, with a great deal of that time spent under vacuum.

Another reason that I picked up the Haskel, is that I want to experiment more with Propane, which just exacerbates the problem that we are having with current recovery pump options.

It occurs to me, that using a gas that is easier to purge than even Isobutane, will make it easier to retain monoterpenes and our experimentation so far supports that, but it also takes more than twice as long to recover.

There are also not a bunch of laws popping up against Propane extraction, because some boneheads are blowing themselves up doing open extraction indoors.
 

Breakover

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Do you have a model number for the Haskel, GW?

Never mind, I think I found it. 59025

They look an awful lot like gas driven pumps we use at my day job...

Did you get it with buna seals or stick with the neo/ptfe?
 

Gray Wolf

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I got PTFE/Viton.

Yeah, they are just an air intensifier. I used a similar air design made by Sprague to pressure test boilers and we used a similar design with hydraulics, to achieve 45KSI for water jet cutting.
 

Breakover

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I got PTFE/Viton.

Yeah, they are just an air intensifier. I used a similar air design made by Sprague to pressure test boilers and we used a similar design with hydraulics, to achieve 45KSI for water jet cutting.

The ptfe/viton must be a custom option, eh?

How much faster do you estimate it will be? I'm just trying to decide if a 5 hp compressor would be adequate enough to keep our process times in line.

I'm going to call around to our nat gas equipment vendors today and see if they have something similar to the Haskel. Always good to have options.

:tiphat:
 

Gray Wolf

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Yes, it was a custom option. See attached:

It takes 40 scfm air, which is closer to a 10 hp using a screw compressor, or more with pistons. Here is the performance sheet. Speed depends heavily on tank back pressure.
 

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Breakover

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I was curious because it says on the spec sheet that lower powered compressors will produce proportionally lower output.

Eg 1hp compressor will perform at about 10% of the ratings in that table.

I'll dig into it some more and see what I can find. Thanks for everything GW!
 

SkyHighLer

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I was curious because it says on the spec sheet that lower powered compressors will produce proportionally lower output.

Eg 1hp compressor will perform at about 10% of the ratings in that table.

I'll dig into it some more and see what I can find. Thanks for everything GW!

For a grand you can pick up a 5HP compressor off of ebay with 17 sfpm at 175 psi, and 16 sfpm continuous it seems. But GW keeps mentioning a 10HP screw drive air compressor? Another month of waiting, but sure looks worth it!

http://www.haskel.com/StaticFiles/MRContent/StaticFiles/Haskel/en/PDF;s/Refrigerant_Pumps.pdf
 

Breakover

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For a grand you can pick up a 5HP compressor off of ebay with 17 sfpm at 175 psi, and 16 sfpm continuous it seems. But GW keeps mentioning a 10HP screw drive air compressor? Another month of waiting, but sure looks worth it!

http://www.haskel.com/StaticFiles/MRContent/StaticFiles/Haskel/en/PDF;s/Refrigerant_Pumps.pdf

I have a 5hp compressor, similarly rated. That's why I was wondering about it.

Also wondering if plumbing your exhaust air from the pump back to the air compressor inlet would make a difference in the efficiency of the compressor. After all, it's easier to take air at 5-10 psi up to 100psi than it is to take it from 0 to 100psi.

Thinking a closed loop air compressor would reduce hp requirements significantly....
 

SpaceshipNelson

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I have a 5hp compressor, similarly rated. That's why I was wondering about it.

Also wondering if plumbing your exhaust air from the pump back to the air compressor inlet would make a difference in the efficiency of the compressor. After all, it's easier to take air at 5-10 psi up to 100psi than it is to take it from 0 to 100psi.

Thinking a closed loop air compressor would reduce hp requirements significantly....


The exhaust sheds unneeded heat. Recirc of exhaust gasses would prevent that. . .
 
so i gave the reftec a spin today on the IIIa.... fast, really quiet considering it has two motors.

i think they could cut costs by removing the 80% fill.

I bypassed the low vac shutoff as it seemed to shut off sooner than I'd like. I did that after I was done for the day after looking at the wiring diagram. Will run it again tomorrow with the bypass and see how it goes :)
 

Gray Wolf

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I was curious because it says on the spec sheet that lower powered compressors will produce proportionally lower output.

Eg 1hp compressor will perform at about 10% of the ratings in that table.

I'll dig into it some more and see what I can find. Thanks for everything GW!

I'm pretty sure that it is proportional throughout the range in Heaven, because it is fixed displacement piston pump, but I would like to see what happens to the curve once we are operating under higher vacuum levels here on Earth. I suspect it isn't a straight line.

I retired in 2005, but at that time 4 cfm per horsepower was a good rule of thumb for screw compressors. That may have changed in almost a decade.

I used screw compressors exclusively in large high draw installations, because can run them more or less continually, and instead of shutting them off when you reach pressure, you can just unload the inlet, to drop current draw closer to unloaded horsepower.
 

Gray Wolf

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I have a 5hp compressor, similarly rated. That's why I was wondering about it.

Also wondering if plumbing your exhaust air from the pump back to the air compressor inlet would make a difference in the efficiency of the compressor. After all, it's easier to take air at 5-10 psi up to 100psi than it is to take it from 0 to 100psi.

Thinking a closed loop air compressor would reduce hp requirements significantly....

An interesting concept, depending on the application! I typically run an oiler on the air side of an air intensifier, so it would need to be separated out first..
 

Permacultuure

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so i gave the reftec a spin today on the IIIa.... fast, really quiet considering it has two motors.

i think they could cut costs by removing the 80% fill.

I bypassed the low vac shutoff as it seemed to shut off sooner than I'd like. I did that after I was done for the day after looking at the wiring diagram. Will run it again tomorrow with the bypass and see how it goes :)

Wheres the gauge when the low vac shutoff triggers?

The cost is cut how? Less butane in the tank?
 
it is working fabulous! really, I'm enjoying how quiet it is. Since the diablo is simply half of a handivac, it would be a fantastic appion replacement. I believe century tools is selling them for 629? if you needed more umpfh, you could run dual diablos
 
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