Purple (I know I know) Stems

[Inspired333]

Hey guys,

So I'll try n' be concise and clear but I'm feelin' very sick at the moment.

I'm a novice at best; I dabble at an acquaintance's med. grow room. I've never had any plants that don't get this but that doesn't make me think "it is what it is", it makes me think "I'm doing something wrong". But one time I had it and I think lowering nutes solved it - the plant took off in height/growth and was beautiful vibrant green all throughout.

Also, lemme start off with saying that I've heard all about "some strains have purple", "purple is normal", or "young plants always have purple" etc... .......moving on.

These plants are C4 by Chimera. I haven't been keeping very good track of..time. So I'd say they're 4-6 weeks and are pretty lame.

-I'm in a DWC tote right now (the same tote was flood drain but I converted it about a week or so in).
-Temps are 68-74 (air) and 65-69 (water)
-Ph is norm. 5.7-6 or 6.1
-Tap water is like 20 ppms... it doesn't even register on a meter. And I let it bubble out/now using "boogie blue" filter usually.
-*Using "Grow More Sea Grow" All purpose veg (16-16-16) or 1-1-1. I really wanted to try these nutes but I think that's a crap ratio. (Edit - apparently 1-1-1 is a fine ratio..)

*When I look at threads, or especially youtube vids of grows, I'd say 90% of the ones I see have purple leaf stems (at least). Whether or not they ended up doing well. There is something going on?

I have purple leaf stems and main stems on my seedlings. They are barely growing; it's a very slow rate if any at all mostly. The leaf stems are also kinda droopy as well over the last few days/week. The roots look fine; they were lookin' a lil off for a week or so when I added some tea and then decided days after to stop using it because I didn't like the particulates in the tote.

I saw the purple and checked Ph was fine, I thought ppm was probably high and burned the roots causing a lockout/def. They even KINDA, MAYBE looked a lil burnt. I gave them straight ph'd water for 24-48 hours. Then I dropped the nutes and gave 200ppm MagiCal and 100 MgS04 only to see if it would correct itself (recommended by skilled YT grower) - it hasn't. At that time I also started foliar with MgS04 and some silica (also recommended) but the girls won't seem to green up.
They're starting to lighten up color wise (from the lower nutes/N) but the prob isn't going away.
Also, they don't drink very much at all even though they're 'young'.
OH and there is like zero branching...there are just fan leafs no other "branches" just lil sets of leaves that are like..pathetic.

Is this Phosphorus def? Mag def? (I see no signs of Cal but I'm no expert). There's no nute burn on the leafs.

There has been no real change in the purple and it's been a week for sure of just calmag essentially. There are new white roots and fuzzies coming from the pot, though the longer roots don't seem to "keep" growing.

Sorry for the convoluted explanation, not feelin' right. And definitely bummed about this prob which seems like it should be so simple. I keep catching myself thinking "buy new/better nutes. buy this additive. maybe if you get this". But I know throwing money isn't the solution :/

BTW I did this same research like a year ago the last time I dabbled, hah. I can't sess, or solve it.
Gone to read some more.

Thanks.

Pics in a minute..

 

[Inspired333]

...The ladies won't even branch. Their 'side branches' are non existent except for one of them has ONE decent side branch. Roots look great, I can't figure out what's going on. They're growing at snail pace but they look healthy (except the purple).

-Forgot to mention my lighting, which I've been informed is insufficient and not close enough - 100 watt newwave T5 fixture 6-8" away.
Anyone?
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[papaduc]

Brother... all that and then you show us a picture of the roots?

Any of the plant itself?

 

[Inspired333]

Brother... all that and then you show us a picture of the roots?

Any of the plant itself?

Thanks for looking..

You can see the three pics above of the purpling right? I'm just checking in case they didn't upload properly - not being a smart ass. I was trying to show that; the purple.

As for the root shot; does that not provide more information for diagnosis?
I meant to mention in the original post that I had thought I either burned the roots cause they looked off white/yellowish, or had light slime forming. I gave'em EWC tea when I thought it was slime, then when I thought it was burn and subsequent inability to take up nutes (and causing CalMg def) I lowered nutes to almost nothing..100ppm'ish and like 200ppm of calmg/mgs04. That is why there are root pics.

Here are pics of'em:
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The third pic shows, I think, some light burn from the other night when I was advised to lower the light to like ~1" or less because they thought that was the prob

The appear to be growin' out a bit now (wider). Just earlier I mixed up new batch: 100ppm calmg (~2ml/4L) and then 300ppm MaxiGrow.
I think I may have been underfeeding them in the first place and they lacked P..?

Peace.

 

[papaduc]

Try to avoid trying to correct each tiny thing you see with a big swing in nutrient dosages and ratios. If you have a small problem to start, you'll have a bigger one soon if you approach it like that. It's hard to resist I know, but keeping the nutes simple and balanced takes away so much guesswork down the line if you do hit a real problem.

Your roots I can't see properly because your pictures won't expand. I don't know how natural it is to have any residue at all on your roots growing that method because I've never done it. I'd ask that specific question in the hydro forum if I were you.

Whatever your main base food is, put them on an EC of 1.0-1.2 of that and they'll be happy at that stage. (That's based on a background ec of 0.2)

Take care

 

[Inspired333]

I had solved this prob with bumping the nutes up a lil IIRC, it's been so long and I didn't/don't keep track. I really need to keep a log or journal.

Anyways, thanks for the help with this guys. PH can be a beach. And you're right papaduc; I need to go simple with the food before I learn to use adds I think.

 

[Budley Doright]

Do you actually know someone who grows with this stuff???

What kind of nitrogen does it have????


Nitrogen: 16.0%
Ammoniacal form of Nitrogen: 4.0%
Nitrate form of Nitrogen: 2.0%
Organo-protein form of Nitrogen: 10.0%


There is your problem slick....


If doing hydro you should have only nitrate Nitogen......

This explains the painfully slow growth and maybe the stems....


You need to find a mentor....




My label....

Total nitrogen (N) ............................................................................................................ 5%
5% nitrate nitrogen
Available phosphate (P2O5)........................................................................................... 11%
Soluble potash (K2O)..................................................................................................... 26%

 

[Budley Doright]

Nitrogen Fertilization in Hydroponics
It is a common mistake in hydroponic gardening to assume that the chemical forms of nitrogen that can be used in hydroponics are the same that can be used in regular soil gardening. Don’t get me wrong, plants in soil and plants in hydroponic media use the exact same chemical forms of nitrogen as nutrients, what changes dramatically from hydroponics to soil gardening is the environment in which the plant is.
Let us talk about the available forms of nitrogen first. Plants absorb nitrogen either as NO3(-) (nitrate) or NH4(+)(ammonium) ions. Both of these ions supply nitrogen to the plant but they have dramatic differences inside the plant’s metabolic pathways. Nitrate is absorbed by the plant slowly and provides the materials needed for the synthesis of amino acids and other structures while ammonia is absorbed rapidly and causes immediate plant toxicity if present in highly enough concentrations.
This is the main difference between soil and hydroponic gardening. In hydroponics, most of the nitrogen must be supplied as NO3(-) because the hydroponic media allows ammonium ions to become toxic exceedingly fast. For example, hydroponic plants can withstand concentrations of nitrogen (as nitrate) up to about 250 ppm while concentrations of nitrogen as ammonium are only withstood up until about 30 ppm. This is the reason why urea cannot be used as a nutrient salt in hydroponic gardening to supply all the nitrogen needed by the plants.



So to conclude we find that Nitrate Nitrogen should be the only type of nitrogen used.....


I dont expect your grows to do substantially better until you think about this.....

Your ferts are clearly made for soil and you are doing hydro.....


It is poor form to not respond when someone is trying to help after you asked......

 

[Inspired333]

Hey Burnt Rope, Thanks for the responses...Though I'm not sure what this is about:

It is poor form to not respond when someone is trying to help after you asked......

You posted on Dec/30..? It's Jan/02 - I don't live here on ICmag bro. Lol.

But yea - I do know that are different types of N and that they are absorbed differently etc etc. *I assume you're referring to the "growmore seagrow"*
I bought them because of a suggestion to do so and that they were said to be 'hygroscopic, well chelated micronutrients, used in hydro successfully and even in aeroponics if properly dissolved/mixed into water solution first - which I always have done using any type of dry nute. I just wanted to try the growmore because it was touted as a very affordable, quality nute - but yes, clearly much more suited to a media type grow (not hydro).

There are sooo many things/nuances to growing and nutrients alone, I knew the ammoniacal N was slower rate of absorption but didn't think that would be a deal breaker. And I probably overlooked it as well :/

Anyway, I'm using up the maxigrow that is leftover now and things are fine. All the growmore stuff purchased is in an effin tote! hah.

The problems were (along with probably the growmore): not enough nutes, which caused a deficiency (mg mostly) which I tried to correct with calmg, which screwed me over cause then you're adding cal that you don't need as well as more N. And at some point the roots got a lil over nuted I think, which helped that lockout and a slight ph problem etc etc.
So it was not JUST the growmore. And yea, I know of (not in person) some people using it - but mostly in soil/coco type situations. Some use it in hydro but not the 1-1-1 formula which is all I could find.

Sheesh - I wasn't planning to respond that long.

I know what my issues are, but I'm sometimes my own worst enemy as far as overcoming them.
Need a mentor? Meh - sure, who wouldn't want a "mentor" That'd be kinda cool.

I appreciate your input man - thanks.
Edit: Oh yes - what type of nutes are ya using, for veg and for bloom, I'm just curious Thanks.

 

[Budley Doright]

You posted on Dec/30..? It's Jan/02 - I don't live here on ICmag bro. Lol.


Frankly your little porch light..... below you avatar tells us when you are on line....


====================


I dont think there is much difference in Jacks Hydro 5-12-26 vs peters 5-11-26


The only difference I see is that peters has less magnesium..... if you use tap water that shouldnt be a problem.... if not.... and are using RO water..... use the jacks.....

along with calcium nitrate......

There are a bunch of people using it...... ppms 500-600
I flip out my res every 2 weeks or so.....

I grow in turface automated top feed..... clay balls should work fine....,.


I use the same stuff all the way thru.....


Love it..... cheap as dirt if you can find the stuff......


They come in 25 lb bags.....

As far as the mentor thing...... they dont have to know they are your mentor....

find someone whos grows you like and join their thread......


Kiss their ass a bit and they will answer any questions you might have......


ALways be wary when you are doing something nobody else is......


I did sick plants on another site for some years....


If you have some trubs you can send a msg.......


I dont live online either.....