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Across International

Gray Wolf

A Posse ad Esse. From Possibility to realization.
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I'm not sure how the marble would help that much as it is going to take on the temp of the surrounding environment, so the lower shelves might be 2 degrees lower versus the top.

We aren't making some super critical concoction, so a little variation in temp isn't going to make enough of a difference. Hell, nobody can seem to even agree on a temp, vac levels, etc.

Take a look at how the vacuum oven is made and how heat energy is transmitted in a vacuum, to best understand why adding shelves with thermal mass helps stabilize the temperature.

For starters, the oven only has heaters on a couple of sides of the shell, so it has to soak a long time for the heat to transfer to the two unheated sides. The locations where the heaters are attached, get hotter than those where they are not, making local hot spots.

The control thermocouple is attached to the oven shell, not inside the oven or to the shelf, so the temperature reading has only slight bearing on the temperature inside.

Heat can transfer to anything inside by radiant energy alone. That is not as efficient as convection and takes much longer to heat up what you put in the oven.

A vacuum oven at solid state, with thermal mass in its shelves, has already heated up the shelves through radiant energy, and they don't lose heat fast when you open and close the door, so the oven doesn't have to add as much energy to again stabilize at set point, so it doesn't overshoot as wildly.

When you turn a heat strip on, it continues to get hotter until it trips the set point at the location of the thermocouple, and that isn't at the strip heater location, so the strip heaters and oven shell that they are attached to are much hotter than set point by that time.

They also have stored energy, so that when they are turned off, they continue to get hotter for a bit afterwards, hence control overshoot. A PID controller attempts to better control the temperature, by ramping up to the point where the controller shuts off energy to the strip heater. It does that by pulsing on and off at a slower rate as it approaches set point, starting ten degrees or so away, instead of just on or off at set point.

The self learning controls also keep track of overshoots, etc and refine control dead band all by themselves. There are however limits to their resourcefulness, and helping them by taking out the major swings, allows them to narrow the dead band.
 
@hashman... the new AI controller isn't programmable as they have done it all already. that sucks in the sense that you can't tailor the oven, but it should work for most everyone. plus, the formula's that they had in the manual weren't exactly correct for dialing things in.

@graywofl... I guess because we never turn off our ovens, we don't see enough of a differential for it to be an issue. obviously the bottom will be warmer than the top, but again, not enough to be an issue. we tend to leave thermostats in different places to make sure all is well. we do use baking mats on our racks, but I imagine slabs of marble would work better. Our ovens never overshoot wildly. Obviously we aren't leaving the door open for long periods of time and also give the oil time to warm up to the new temp before pulling any vac.
 

CannabisTHC

Member
@hashman... the new AI controller isn't programmable as they have done it all already. that sucks in the sense that you can't tailor the oven, but it should work for most everyone.

I can still adjust my settings and I have the new controller. Hold down the left button for a few seconds and it will enter settings then click that same button again to move to the next setting, use the arrows to change the values.
 

icdog

Member
My oven is on order, can't wait.
I am not using the pour mething, I am scraping when done extracting so I'm wondering what is the best method to go from there?
Do I scrape and just drop it into the oven as a big glob?
Heat for awhile in a pan and spread it out?
What containers do you use to put it in the oven? Does just parchment work ok?
To get shatter what is the general time and temp to keep the material in the oven?
Do you have the oven and vac on at the same time, always? Or vac intermitently?
Do you pull full vac right away or slowly?
Any other advice?
 

Hash Man

Member
I got my new controller and manual. With no calibration, my oven is 10 degrees less than i have it set for... Im going to calibrate it today, but so far its much better than the old one. No crazy temp swings!

Also i see lots of different parameter settings on my unit. I love how they made the low pid controllers green too.
 
My oven is on order, can't wait.
I am not using the pour mething, I am scraping when done extracting so I'm wondering what is the best method to go from there?
Do I scrape and just drop it into the oven as a big glob?
Heat for awhile in a pan and spread it out?
What containers do you use to put it in the oven? Does just parchment work ok?
To get shatter what is the general time and temp to keep the material in the oven?
Do you have the oven and vac on at the same time, always? Or vac intermitently?
Do you pull full vac right away or slowly?
Any other advice?

scrape and spread it out on parchment. the globs will spread out if you leave it under heat in your oven.

we pour into pans, so we don't scrape till later

getting shatter is mostly about technique and good methods. your best bet is to read lots of threads on the topic... there is no right method. if your product waxes easily, your technique is flawed.

you need to pull a hard vac, so your pump needs to be on. I would slowly pull a full vac. so pull a third, let it sit, pull some more, let it sit, etc.
 

furrywall11

Member
I've noticed that if I dewax first there isn't really a muffin. Just big bubbles that decrease in size over 45 minutes to pretty much no bubbles...
 

Gray Wolf

A Posse ad Esse. From Possibility to realization.
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ICMag Donor
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My oven is on order, can't wait.
I am not using the pour mething, I am scraping when done extracting so I'm wondering what is the best method to go from there?
Do I scrape and just drop it into the oven as a big glob?
Heat for awhile in a pan and spread it out?
What containers do you use to put it in the oven? Does just parchment work ok?
To get shatter what is the general time and temp to keep the material in the oven?
Do you have the oven and vac on at the same time, always? Or vac intermitently?
Do you pull full vac right away or slowly?
Any other advice?

Using a Terpenator, we use a couple different methods. One is to just wash it out of the tank with warm ethanol and then stick it in the freezer for winterization.

With cotton candy carboxylic acid, I stick the lower tank in the deep freeze for about thirty minutes, and then run a thin bladed spatula around the perimeter, before removing the bottom.

The cotton candy can then be easily popped loose from the lower kid and placed on parchment. How we process it after that depends on what we covet as an end product.

For shatter I stick it in the vacuum oven in a thin film at 115F and minus 29.5" Hg until solvent bubbles cease.

You can shut off the vacuum pump periodically, after it is at the correct vacuum levels, but be sure to valve it off first, to prevent aspirating vacuum pump oil.

For shatter, I come up to vacuum as fast as possible.

For wax, I've successfully ramped up temperature while holding the vacuum steady and also ramped up the vacuum while holding a higher temperature. Both produce aromatic extracts.
 

icdog

Member
What connection are you guys using on the 3/8 barb at the back of the AI to connect to the vac pump?
 
Using a Terpenator, we use a couple different methods. One is to just wash it out of the tank with warm ethanol and then stick it in the freezer for winterization.

With cotton candy carboxylic acid, I stick the lower tank in the deep freeze for about thirty minutes, and then run a thin bladed spatula around the perimeter, before removing the bottom.

The cotton candy can then be easily popped loose from the lower kid and placed on parchment. How we process it after that depends on what we covet as an end product.

For shatter I stick it in the vacuum oven in a thin film at 115F and minus 29.5" Hg until solvent bubbles cease.

You can shut off the vacuum pump periodically, after it is at the correct vacuum levels, but be sure to valve it off first, to prevent aspirating vacuum pump oil.

For shatter, I come up to vacuum as fast as possible.

For wax, I've successfully ramped up temperature while holding the vacuum steady and also ramped up the vacuum while holding a higher temperature. Both produce aromatic extracts.

how would i get freshly blown oil into an oven without agitating it? to try and make shatter.. i dont want to put butane onto a slick pad or parchment paper until properly cured and don't want to scrape the oil and cause waxing up. any tips?
 
leave it in the pie plate you blasted into


end up running into a few problems. one being that the 9x13 pyrex doesnt fit in the small ai oven... and the smaller pyrex dont fit as much oil and can only fit 2 pyrexs in the oven at a time.. trying to figure out how to fit oil onto all 4 shelves... can only use 2 pyrex per oven..
 
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