Snype's RDWC Construction Tutorial For 250 Watts - 7,600 Watts!

[paperchaser825]

There are RDWCers including me not using air pumps using those venturi air pumps, waterfalls, flooming with powerheads, top drip over hydroton or other grow media, and chillers set at 68-72 degrees. With a venturi in the res, the last bucket in line has been measured with very little drop in DO at all.

Relatively chillers costs nothing to me when I'm eyeing a $2,500 Intellidose system with 5-6 peristaltic pumps for auto dosing - which btw can keep grow records minute by minute if you want (I'll set mine to record every 10 minutes).

I know Snype doesn't care about chillers but then again you may need those air stones right in each of your buckets with your res above 75-80 degrees or so. But if if ain't broke as Snype would say why fix it?

I'm just very curious to know if the pumps we are proposing to use in these system, if fitted with venturi valves at the "control bucket", could produce enough oxygen to supply these systems. Just one less thing to worry about for me in my little cab. I already have access to a chiller from my last setup. So for me this is good news. I just have to figure out how to DIY one or find a supplier for one. Seems like the ticket for me though.

 

[Stonefree69]

No thread? No pics? Id like to see one of your grows.

Sooner or later Snype - I hope sooner!

I'm just very curious to know if the pumps we are proposing to use in these system, if fitted with venturi valves at the "control bucket", could produce enough oxygen to supply these systems. Just one less thing to worry about for me in my little cab. I already have access to a chiller from my last setup. So for me this is good news. I just have to figure out how to DIY one or find a supplier for one. Seems like the ticket for me though.

If you do put a venturi on your circulation pump it will derate the water output in gpm (also depends on how much air your venturi uses). That's why I dropped a few Penguin powerhead pumnps right in my res for both veg & flower rooms. They are rated for I think 10 watts or so and aren't gonna heat your res up and put out millions of tiny bubbles that stay in solution longer. Snype has it right using the circulation pump inline like the UC systems.

 

[Stonefree69]

I'm just very curious to know if the pumps we are proposing to use in these system, if fitted with venturi valves at the "control bucket", could produce enough oxygen to supply these systems. Just one less thing to worry about for me in my little cab. I already have access to a chiller from my last setup. So for me this is good news. I just have to figure out how to DIY one or find a supplier for one. Seems like the ticket for me though.

Well I must be doing something right, learned from the best! Some info from Heath Robinson about DO:


"In this you can see that at 19 deg C its about 9mg / L of DO, so not quite 1 mg for every C the temps are raised but a useful rule of thumb. this is sufficient for healthy plant growth, the optimum for nutrient temps is between 18 and 24c

As growers we are caught in a "catch 22" situation because DO is increased at low nutrient temps but the plant growth is regulated by performing countless numbers of biochemical reactions which will double for every increase of 10 degrees C degrees or on the other hand be cut in half for every reduction of 10 degrees C, so there is the dilemma...... which leads me on to some possible answers

The recirculating systems I use all rely on one simple fact and that is whenever air is in contact with the water, whether through natural or artificial means, a transfer of oxygen from the air to the water takes place at the surface which provides a good gas exchange allowing oxygen to enter the water and carbon dioxide to escape until the water becomes saturated. The speed at which oxygen from the air enters and mixes through a system depends on the amount of agitation at the water surface, the depth of the system and the rate at which it mixes itself.

When normal airstones are used most of the DO is obtained when the bubble forms and then by water movement at the surface, so most of the DO is created by water movement at the surface rather than bubbles as most people think. Another thing growers should consider is the practice of placing a large airstone underneath the roots and allowing it to bubble away furiously can cause mechanical damage to the roots and the turbulence can cause stress. Much better to have the bubbles generated in a remote rez and recirculate them through the system.

Ceramic Micro air Diffusers (CMD) are brilliant for aerating your system, if you have never seen one running you are in for a treat, when you first run one its a surprise to see what looks like milk streaming out of the diffuser! or a bit like underwater fog, with one of these you can oversaturate depending on the size of the diffuser or system but not to the point that the system is toxic. If you decide to use one of these, depending on how good the CMD is you can run them intermittently as the DO will stay in the system for about 20 mins .

I wouldn't recommend the use of CMD with oxygen as you would run the real risk of it becoming toxic but not at the levels you suggest it would have to be more than double 14mg DO / L."



"The water comes into contact with the air in the rez and also around the inner pot. If you notice all these systems have a external rez which the water flows from and back to. Whenever air is in contact with the water, whether through natural or artificial means, a transfer of oxygen from the air to the water takes place until the water becomes saturated. so it doesn't matter that the inner pot sits in the water as the water is already fully saturated with air from the rez. I hope that makes sense.


Ok just to make things as clear as mud here is a summery of whats been discussed so far.

Dissolved oxygen (DO) is one of the single most important factors in hydroponics. If DO concentrations are low plants cannot take up nutrients, they will grow slowly or not at all, and they will be susceptible to disease. where concentrations are very low, plants may die from lack of oxygen.

Wherever water is in contact with the atmosphere, oxygen from the air will enter the water until the pressure of oxygen in water and air are equal. This is known as equilibrium or saturation. The concentration of DO at saturation increases with increasing pressure and decreases with increasing water temperature.

When water contains less oxygen than the saturation concentration, oxygen from the atmosphere diffuses into the water, Oxygen will be added to a recirculating system at almost any point where the water surface is in contact with the atmosphere.


The addition of a air stone can be useful but not in the way that most growers think. If the recirculating water is at full saturation then the addition of air stones wont make any difference whatsoever, if the water is low in DO for whatever reason, then the addition of an air stone would increase DO simply by the action of moving the water and allowing more contact area at the water surface as I mentioned earlier "Wherever water is in contact with the atmosphere, oxygen from the air will enter the water until the pressure of oxygen in water and air are equal". This can also be achieved by simply placing a small submerged pump in your rez.

Good diffusers and Protein skimmers will add Do because of the small bubble size they produce, typically less than 1 millimetre (mm) in average diameter, compared to 3 to 5 mm or more for aquarium type air stones. For example, decreasing the bubble size from 2.4 mm to 0.4 mm would increase the contact area between the air and water by a factor of five. An additional benefit of small bubbles is they take much longer to rise. A good diffuser will supersaturate your water which wont directly benefit the plant as it cant use the extra DO but it might indirectly help by increasing the numbers of beneficial bacteria and reducing harmful ones.


I hope that helps clears things up because we are in danger of sending everyone who looks in to sleep


Heath"

 

[Catatafish]

Snype, is the only change for the 10 bucket system the 8" pvc bucket connection pieces? Other than pumps obviously.

Trying to get everything together now but still waiting on a couple washers yet. I have ordered some from the place mentioned earlier in the thread but i dont think they will arrive till after new year. I will let you know how they compare to your original ones as i will have both. Hope they come soon or im going to have a fun time untangling roots in veg-a. Sigh..

Thanks again for all your help, this is a great thread!

 

[Snype]

Snype, is the only change for the 10 bucket system the 8" pvc bucket connection pieces? Other than pumps obviously.

Trying to get everything together now but still waiting on a couple washers yet. I have ordered some from the place mentioned earlier in the thread but i dont think they will arrive till after new year. I will let you know how they compare to your original ones as i will have both. Hope they come soon or im going to have a fun time untangling roots in veg-a. Sigh..

Thanks again for all your help, this is a great thread!

Yeah, you are correct.

 

[itsallgoodsman]

Snype first and foremost THANK YOU VERY MUCH for all that you have done and will do here, bravo! Second I am in the process of getting everything priced out for the 8 of the 12 bucket systems. Per your calculations on page 1, this system is good for about 2.2 pounds per 12 bucket system, I am curious to know what the variables are for this such as veg time, bloom time etc...

As for the future setup, I will be running two rooms 4 systems in each with 8 Gavita 1000DE's (4 per room). I normally run 24 individual buckets and net about 8lbs this is with a 2-3 month veg and bloom until they say they are ready and a single 1kw HPS/MH.

I am setting up with your system design as the way I have been doing it is far too inferior. Basically it got my feet wet.

And by the way I have been following your Farm thread and right on man good for you, I hope to be living that dream one day.

(I have read this thread north of 10 times)

 

[Stonefree69]

I was wondering Baytec has 5, 6.5, 8 and 13 gallon square containers. The bigger 13 gallon is $23.95. Pretty much looks like the UC buckets except these are not opaque (but I can light proof them with some reflectix). You can jump up your pipe sizes to 2-3" that can be handy in flower when you want to get good recirc rates to less than 5 minutes.

Just look up Ez Stor bucket. I get all my 55 gallon water barrels from Baytec, about $100 cheapest online I could find. They are new condition too, I like the ones where you can remove the top so I can intall my own bulkheads and floats easily.

 

[Snype]

Snype first and foremost THANK YOU VERY MUCH for all that you have done and will do here, bravo! Second I am in the process of getting everything priced out for the 8 of the 12 bucket systems. Per your calculations on page 1, this system is good for about 2.2 pounds per 12 bucket system, I am curious to know what the variables are for this such as veg time, bloom time etc...
Strain is the main variable to your equation. For a cash crop, my ChemDD is a fast grower. Depending on how your plant stretches in flower will matter in terms of Veg time. I think what your goal should be is to finish flowering with around 120 tops per system. A SCROG will make this much easier for you. My Veg times in my flower rooms are less than 2 weeks and about 10 days pre veg in the Veg room. In 10 bucket systems, you want to Veg all branches to 18" which looks like the sweet spot for yield. 12 bucket systems I veg to 16" but im canceling out the 12 bucket systems and replacing them with 10 bucket systems because it makes too much sense with this style grow

As for the future setup, I will be running two rooms 4 systems in each with 8 Gavita 1000DE's (4 per room). I normally run 24 individual buckets and net about 8lbs this is with a 2-3 month veg and bloom until they say they are ready and a single 1kw HPS/MH.
I dont think 4 Gavitas will cover 4 systems so I think you meant 2 systems per room. If you go with Gavitas and have 5' x 10' of growing space, then go with 12 bucket systems and make the in-line manifolds 4" longer to take advantage of the bigger light spread with the gavita. Also add another 3" to each side of your back manifold if you go this route.

If you are going to grow your systems in 4'x8' of space, then go with the new 10 bucket system. Its much cheaper as well because of the pumps. Personally if I had Gavitas, i'd go with my first idea and use more space.

I am setting up with your system design as the way I have been doing it is far too inferior. Basically it got my feet wet.

And by the way I have been following your Farm thread and right on man good for you, I hope to be living that dream one day.

(I have read this thread north of 10 times)

Answered in bold above.

 

[itsallgoodsman]

Thank you for the response, the rooms are 12x12x8. Using the 4 lights per room is preliminary, I need to get in contact with Gavita and send them the layout. That will ultimately determine how many per room.

Yes, right now I average about 10 tops per bucket give or take 2.

 

[itsallgoodsman]

Sorry, I cannot edit posts quite yet. After reading the thread again, what is the advantage with the 10 site system over the 12? I know you mentioned this style of growing, but I do not know what that means.

 

[Snype]

Thank you for the response, the rooms are 12x12x8. Using the 4 lights per room is preliminary, I need to get in contact with Gavita and send them the layout. That will ultimately determine how many per room.

Yes, right now I average about 10 tops per bucket give or take 2.

8 foot ceiling heights with the 1,000 watt Gavita might not be possible. You probably will have to turn it down to 750 if you are talking about DE Bulbs. So I would go with the 10 bucket systems instead on a 4x8 grid per system. This will be your best option unless you had 9' ceilings.

 

[Snype]

Sorry, I cannot edit posts quite yet. After reading the thread again, what is the advantage with the 10 site system over the 12? I know you mentioned this style of growing, but I do not know what that means.

The 12 bucket system crowds the plants too much unless you have DE bulbs that can give you a 5x10 space instead of 4x8. If you had the height and space then I would suggest the 12 bucket system with 4" added to each in-line manifold but 8 feet wont do that unless you are going to grow 24" plants which wouldnt be good to maximize yield.

 

[Stonefree69]

Hey Snype, someone's using those 8 gallon containers in a UC system with 2" pvc. Still at $20 a bucket your system is way cheaper. Not bad though if you want to flower bigger plants - the 13 gallon is a deal then compared to the 8 gallon. Too there is a minimum order of 4-6 except for the big one.

Here the pic link from

DIY Under Current 8 site XL

Funky but funtional fitting net pots, another reason for the 13 gallon + a normal 6-8.5 inch net pot (this is 8 gallon bucket 12" funky lid):

Hope to have pics soon, I'm doing a 6 site 5 gal bucket with 1.5" pvc 6 buckets 17" OC in a 35"x 51" space (12 sq ft for 6 plants).

Veg to 2 sq ft per plant, and flower 4-8 sq ft per plant in a bigger system (I like vert hexagons).

 

[Snype]

It's cool till you have to add twice the air and then it becomes expensive. I tested UCs that I bought for crazy money and I thought they were garbage. That was when they had uniseals but the concept is the same. You think too much. Build some systems and fill them with plants.

 

[Catatafish]

Ok couple stupid questions that i may have missed somewhere...

1. When done cementing everything, how long do you have to wait to run water thru it? Couple mins to an hour? Guessing kinda quick or plumbers would be hatin life waiting for parts to dry!

2. Neccessary to fill/flush system before throwin plants in it? I have cleaned all parts with water/light bleach ahead of assembly, wondering about excess cement/cleaner or what ever.


3. anyone have some tips for untangling roots? My veg-a is completely overgrown due to having company here unexpectedly.

 

[The fat]

He

 

[The fat]

Hey Snype My bad clicked the wrong thing any way badass thread was wondering if you could give my a compleat parts list for 2x10 plant setup. Can't wait to see it up an shinen. Keep up the good work.

 

[Snype]

Hey Snype My bad clicked the wrong thing any way badass thread was wondering if you could give my a compleat parts list for 2x10 plant setup. Can't wait to see it up an shinen. Keep up the good work.

For 2 x 10 Bucket RDWC Systems, you would need:

A. (44) 1.5" Female Adapter PVC Fitting (Carlon) Available at Home Depot and Lowes or www.codale.com for cheaper.

B. (40) 1.5" Female PVC Trap Adapter (Nibco) Available at Home Depot and Lowes.

C. (4) 1.5" Male PVC Trap Adapter (Nibco) Available at Home Depot and Lowes.

D. (88) Neoprene Washer. Part #420. Available at greenhydro@safe-mail.net

E. (8) 1.5" Female 90 Degree PVC Elbow - (Pressure applications) (Mueller) Available at Home Depot and Lowes.

F. (2) 1.5” PVC T - (Female) - (Pressure applications) (Mueller) Available at Home Depot and Lowes.

G. (2) 1.5" to 1" Bushing - Slip - Available at Home Depot and Lowes.

H. (2) 1" Ball Valve Shut Off - Slip - Available at Home Depot and Lowes.

I. (2) 1" PVC Union - Slip - Available at Home Depot and Lowes.

J. (2) 1" to 3/4" Bushing. Threaded - Available at Home Depot and Lowes.

K. (2) 3/4" Y Stainless Steel Filter with Flush. Part #F063. Available at DripIrrigation.com.

L. (20 Feet) 1.5" PVC Pipe

M. (2) 3/4" - S x FTP - Female Adapter - Available at Home Depot and Lowes.

N. (2) 3/4" x 1/2" Flush Bushing - SPIG X RSoc - Available at Home Depot and Lowes.

O. (6) 1/2" Ball Valve Shut Off - Slip - Available at Home Depot and Lowes. I have to add another one before the 1/2 pipe hits the waterfall so when you change out the system, you shut that valve off so you can drain from your boiler drain adapter. I haven't added that to the front page yet.

P. (4) 1/2" PVC Union - Slip - Available at Home Depot and Lowes.

Q. (2) 1/2" PVC Adapter - S x MPT - Available at Home Depot and Lowes.

R. (2) 1/2" PVC Adapter - S x FPT - Available at Home Depot and Lowes.

S. (4) 1/2" 90 Degree - Slip - Available at Home Depot and Lowes.

T. (2) 1/2" PVC T - S x S x FPT - Available at Home Depot and Lowes.

U. (2) 1/2" Brass Boiler Drain - Available at Home Depot.

V. (20 feet) 1/2" PVC Pipe - Available at Home Depot and Lowes.

W. (3 feet) 1" PVC Pipe - Picture not included. Available at Home Depot and Lowes.

X. (2) Lowes 5 Gallon Bucket Lid - Picture not included. Available at Lowes.

Y. (39) 5 Gallon Lowes Buckets. Probably better to use the grey ones if you can. The blue is more see through. Available at Lowes.

Z. (2) Danner Supreme Classic Model 5 Water (500 G/Hr). Available at MarineDepot.com.

A2. (2) Alita AL-60 - Available at AquaCave.com.

B2. (1) Milwaukee 1-7/8" (48mm) drill bit. Available at Home Depot.

C2. (1) Oatey 8 ounce PVC Clear Cleaner - Available at Home Depot.

D2 (2) Oatey 8 ounce Heavy Duty PVC Clear Cement - Available at Home Depot.

E2 (2) Hydrofarm Active Aqua, Air Divider, 12 Outlet.

F2 (20) Elemental O2 Cylinder Stone, 4" - Available at www.wormsway.com

G2 (200 feet) Black Tubing for connecting air stones to air manifold.

H2 (1) Teflon Tape - Available at Home Depot.

I2 (20) Hydro Farm 6" Bucket Lids - Available at WormsWay.com

 

[Snype]

Ok couple stupid questions that i may have missed somewhere...

1. When done cementing everything, how long do you have to wait to run water thru it? Couple mins to an hour? Guessing kinda quick or plumbers would be hatin life waiting for parts to dry!
I like to wait a couple of hours if it's warm. If it's cold, I like to wait 6 hours.

2. Neccessary to fill/flush system before throwin plants in it? I have cleaned all parts with water/light bleach ahead of assembly, wondering about excess cement/cleaner or what ever.
I don't. What I do though is I run the system with the nutrients in it over night but with no plants to test it out and look for leaks. When I do that step I add 1 drop of Clorox Unscented Regular Bleach for every 2 Gallons

3. anyone have some tips for untangling roots? My veg-a is completely overgrown due to having company here unexpectedly.

When it happens to me I just rip the plant out by pulling as hard as I have to or you could prune roots accordingly if you have a good pare of sterile scissors.

 

[Stonefree69]

You think too much. Build some systems and fill them with plants.

I see you have organized the thinking part quite well! Thanks again Snype, exactly what we need - a KISS list.

For 2 x 10 Bucket RDWC Systems, you would need:

A. (44) 1.5" Female Adapter PVC Fitting (Carlon) Available at Home Depot and Lowes or www.codale.com for cheaper.

B. (40) 1.5" Female PVC Trap Adapter (Nibco) Available at Home Depot and Lowes.

C. (4) 1.5" Male PVC Trap Adapter (Nibco) Available at Home Depot and Lowes.

D. (88) Neoprene Washer. Part #420. Available at greenhydro@safe-mail.net

E. (8) 1.5" Female 90 Degree PVC Elbow - (Pressure applications) (Mueller) Available at Home Depot and Lowes.

F. (2) 1.5” PVC T - (Female) - (Pressure applications) (Mueller) Available at Home Depot and Lowes.

G. (2) 1.5" to 1" Bushing - Slip - Available at Home Depot and Lowes.

H. (2) 1" Ball Valve Shut Off - Slip - Available at Home Depot and Lowes.

I. (2) 1" PVC Union - Slip - Available at Home Depot and Lowes.

J. (2) 1" to 3/4" Bushing. Threaded - Available at Home Depot and Lowes.

K. (2) 3/4" Y Stainless Steel Filter with Flush. Part #F063. Available at DripIrrigation.com.

L. (20 Feet) 1.5" PVC Pipe

M. (2) 3/4" - S x FTP - Female Adapter - Available at Home Depot and Lowes.

N. (2) 3/4" x 1/2" Flush Bushing - SPIG X RSoc - Available at Home Depot and Lowes.

O. (6) 1/2" Ball Valve Shut Off - Slip - Available at Home Depot and Lowes. I have to add another one before the 1/2 pipe hits the waterfall so when you change out the system, you shut that valve off so you can drain from your boiler drain adapter. I haven't added that to the front page yet.

P. (4) 1/2" PVC Union - Slip - Available at Home Depot and Lowes.

Q. (2) 1/2" PVC Adapter - S x MPT - Available at Home Depot and Lowes.

R. (2) 1/2" PVC Adapter - S x FPT - Available at Home Depot and Lowes.

S. (4) 1/2" 90 Degree - Slip - Available at Home Depot and Lowes.

T. (2) 1/2" PVC T - S x S x FPT - Available at Home Depot and Lowes.

U. (2) 1/2" Brass Boiler Drain - Available at Home Depot.

V. (20 feet) 1/2" PVC Pipe - Available at Home Depot and Lowes.

W. (3 feet) 1" PVC Pipe - Picture not included. Available at Home Depot and Lowes.

X. (2) Lowes 5 Gallon Bucket Lid - Picture not included. Available at Lowes.

Y. (39) 5 Gallon Lowes Buckets. Probably better to use the grey ones if you can. The blue is more see through. Available at Lowes.

Z. (2) Danner Supreme Classic Model 5 Water (500 G/Hr). Available at MarineDepot.com.

A2. (2) Alita AL-60 - Available at AquaCave.com.

B2. (1) Milwaukee 1-7/8" (48mm) drill bit. Available at Home Depot.

C2. (1) Oatey 8 ounce PVC Clear Cleaner - Available at Home Depot.

D2 (2) Oatey 8 ounce Heavy Duty PVC Clear Cement - Available at Home Depot.

E2 (2) Hydrofarm Active Aqua, Air Divider, 12 Outlet.

F2 (20) Elemental O2 Cylinder Stone, 4" - Available at www.wormsway.com

G2 (200 feet) Black Tubing for connecting air stones to air manifold.

H2 (1) Teflon Tape - Available at Home Depot.

I2 (20) Hydro Farm 6" Bucket Lids - Available at WormsWay.com