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organics and pH. and lime
- Thread starter Maina
- Start date
with all due respect I have never agreed with any of this organics dont give care about pH but why should there be any arguments
first take three identical cuts and put them in identical containers with identical soil
grow them to maturation
feed plant a water exclusively at a ph of 4 feed plant b at a ph of 7 and plant c at a ph of 11 for the whole of its life cycle and measure the results (you can try less aggressive ph ranges and but i use those to illustrate a point)
In natural ecosystems most inputs have fairly tight ranges of ph
yes organic soils can buffer ph but remember when inputs change even self balancing ecosystems suffer (look up acid rain) and the differing mechanism that buffer the ph in soil may not be instant and that time period where the ph is off is also a window of optimal conditions lost even if it is for short period of time
bottom line is microbiology is ph sensitive and it has been in my observational experience that water only soils perform better when give water within a healthy ph range and worse when they do not
dont trust me test the theory yourself
imho it seems inappropriate to say that certain inputs shouldn't be introduced at their natural norms and that ignoring this has no implications
imho there are reasons this very easy method of growing fails for people and imhe it is the qualities of inputs we aren't measuring that is the culprit (microbrial life in compost, ph in water source, etc) except by how the plant grows and this creates kneejerk not proactive solutions
and this imho is the real difference with living soil (recycled) and other methods is that living soil is really only effective when you are proactive and other methods are more effective in a reactive measure
first take three identical cuts and put them in identical containers with identical soil
grow them to maturation
feed plant a water exclusively at a ph of 4 feed plant b at a ph of 7 and plant c at a ph of 11 for the whole of its life cycle and measure the results (you can try less aggressive ph ranges and but i use those to illustrate a point)
In natural ecosystems most inputs have fairly tight ranges of ph
yes organic soils can buffer ph but remember when inputs change even self balancing ecosystems suffer (look up acid rain) and the differing mechanism that buffer the ph in soil may not be instant and that time period where the ph is off is also a window of optimal conditions lost even if it is for short period of time
bottom line is microbiology is ph sensitive and it has been in my observational experience that water only soils perform better when give water within a healthy ph range and worse when they do not
dont trust me test the theory yourself
imho it seems inappropriate to say that certain inputs shouldn't be introduced at their natural norms and that ignoring this has no implications
imho there are reasons this very easy method of growing fails for people and imhe it is the qualities of inputs we aren't measuring that is the culprit (microbrial life in compost, ph in water source, etc) except by how the plant grows and this creates kneejerk not proactive solutions
and this imho is the real difference with living soil (recycled) and other methods is that living soil is really only effective when you are proactive and other methods are more effective in a reactive measure
it's been my experience that an input ~usually water~ can have an extreme pH & it will be an imbalance {like way too much Fe or Ca or whatever} that accumulates and throws an otherwise balanced project out of whack
when that happens, pH testing can provide a clue to the problem
w/ some techs, pH of runoff is a helpful metric but not so much w/ organics since in this instance it would just tell you something isn't right w/o helping narrow the problem down
the thing is, typically low pH isn't so much the issue as "not enough Ca" or some other basic cation & in some instances a grower may attempt to adjust pH when actually, nothing is wrong ~pH can kind of wander around w/ organics even w/ excellent conditions
for one thing it can vary w/ how wet/dry a mix is
much depends on what you are testing the pH of & how accurate the method or test itself even actually is
& i wouldn't test pH except maybe to evaluate a water source or, if there's a problem
when that happens, pH testing can provide a clue to the problem
w/ some techs, pH of runoff is a helpful metric but not so much w/ organics since in this instance it would just tell you something isn't right w/o helping narrow the problem down
the thing is, typically low pH isn't so much the issue as "not enough Ca" or some other basic cation & in some instances a grower may attempt to adjust pH when actually, nothing is wrong ~pH can kind of wander around w/ organics even w/ excellent conditions
for one thing it can vary w/ how wet/dry a mix is
much depends on what you are testing the pH of & how accurate the method or test itself even actually is
& i wouldn't test pH except maybe to evaluate a water source or, if there's a problem
Agreed.
Water is the only thing I have pH'd. My source has been rock steady for over 5 years, fortunately, but I still test the first gallon just to account for any possible changes. Force of habit, maybe. I just don't want to be surprised if it changes. Having good water is vital.
Beyond the water source, though, I don't see pH measurements as being particularly useful because it doesn't tell the whole story of what is actually in a soil.
Which is what I think is the problem with Maina's mix. He focused so much on getting the pH number up to 6.5 potentially at the expense of other elements in his soil. There could have been plenty of magnesium but not enough calcium or sulfur. Theoretically, his soil at 5.5 could have been plenty healthy if he had sufficient clay/OM/humus.
Now after all the liming it may have too much magnesium despite the 6.5 reading and the soil is becoming toxic to his plants. This is why the blanket statement often used of adding dolomite lime to raise pH is unhelpful and often causes more trouble than it helps to solve.
