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sick plants dont konw to do!
- Thread starter leo92
- Start date
When you made that light go off I started researching NPK, everything you can think of I read it. Before I read your post I didn't really even know what a 3 part nutrient solution was even though I was using one! LOL I was using it because some website told me "use this much of this and a little of that and your plants will get HUGE". I didn't really know what the numbers on the front meant other than they represented Nitrogen, Phosphorous and Potassium. Now I understand that those numbers represent the weight of the given nutrient within the solution and the WHOLE weight of the fertilizer used. Now I can better understand what's going in my plants. Now I can compare ferts and make decisions based on correct info. It's good stuff. 
Bongstar420
Member
It might be too simple, but a dose of N/K looks to be in order.
My experience was that look is from excess P, but the reality was a deficit of N/K (more K than N). I went through many cycles of this following the conventional fertilizer wisdom in a near zero waste (no leaching, reusing soil indefinitely) only to realize that the vast majority of growers are just following directions and actually understand very little about what they were doing.
My experience was that look is from excess P, but the reality was a deficit of N/K (more K than N). I went through many cycles of this following the conventional fertilizer wisdom in a near zero waste (no leaching, reusing soil indefinitely) only to realize that the vast majority of growers are just following directions and actually understand very little about what they were doing.
The majority of "knowledge" shared on these cultivation sites come from people just like that... they don't really know what the hell they are doing, and then they pass that nonsense around over and over and over.
50 posts
Hey! i got my cns17 just now.
Question: I've been feeding the gh 3 part. How should I water this first time with CNS17? Should i water to run off to make sure I've replaced any nutes from the previous GH waterings?
Thanks!
I think I know the answer to this one. I'll use my best judgment and see what happens. can't wait!Hey! i got my cns17 just now.
Question: I've been feeding the gh 3 part. How should I water this first time with CNS17? Should i water to run off to make sure I've replaced any nutes from the previous GH waterings?
Thanks!
A couple of things. First of all, pm me whenever. I'm only on here to talk about plants anyway, lol, so it makes no difference to me.
With regards to the nutrients, the reason I recommend single bottle ferts is simply to take one variable away - the mixing of the different elements.
If you're mixing the 3-part nutes correctly every time you'll be ok. You probably won't see any gain from using them, but you'll be alright.
Using a one part nutrient you only have to concentrate on the EC of the feed and nothing else. There's no worry that you might have put in too much of one or another, or that they locked together. It's easier to give advice basically, and it's easier to learn, because you're concentrating on just the feed strength and the appearance of the plants. That's where your main focus needs to be when you're learning to grow.
With regards NPK...
Cannabis is happy on quite a broad range of numbers through the veg period. You could feed a 4-4-3 plant food through veg, just like you could feed a 5-2-4.
They should have a balance of all the main elements and will also have enough Nitrogen as a ratio to give good growth, even though the numbers are slightly different.
Flowering is where your growing will get very slightly more complicated, but, provided you have an idea what you're trying to do, not by much.
You don't want a high nitrogen feed in the flower period, but you don't want your plants to go yellow too early from nitrogen deficiency
The trick is knowing when the vegetative growth has stopped and when the plant's main focus is now on flowering, or setting fruit.
With cannabis, when the initial stretch is finishing (usually about the 2nd week of 12/12) it's ok to reduce the nitrogen by switching to a bloom feed.
This is where knowing the numbers helps.
Some bloom foods are still high in nitrogen compared to others. One I used, called plant magic, was something like 4-3-4. It was basically a veg feed with a bloom label. Used on it's own, it would give dark green thick leafy buds.
Others use a more orthodox ratio, like 3-4-5 or 4-5-8 etc.
Sometimes... even with the 3-4-5 feed, especially towards the peak point in flower, you might find that, used alone, they're still a bit high in nitrogen.
You'll learn as you go, and no words on a screen can show you this. You'll learn to judge the calyx to leaf ratio, and you'll get an understanding (especially when you overdo the nitrogen) what a high leaf ratio looks like. Leaves poking from the buds themselves should be small and delicate. High nitrogen makes them big and thick, at the expense of bud weight when dry.
What you do at the mid point in flower is simply reduce the base feed by 0.2 and replace it with 0.2 of your PK booster.
This just changes the ratio of your main food to be made up mainly of P&K, and less of N. It's a very simple adjustment to make, and that's the reason you make it.
Finally, with regards to your question: Start feeding at 1.0ec of your CNS veg feed. If your tap water is about 0.2, add 0.8 cns to bring it to 1.0.
Once you know a good NPK ratio for veg, the actual strength of the feed doesn't vary by much if at all.
(Just to make sure, do you have an EC meter?)
If there's any of that you want me to clarify or explain more, just say.
With regards to the nutrients, the reason I recommend single bottle ferts is simply to take one variable away - the mixing of the different elements.
If you're mixing the 3-part nutes correctly every time you'll be ok. You probably won't see any gain from using them, but you'll be alright.
Using a one part nutrient you only have to concentrate on the EC of the feed and nothing else. There's no worry that you might have put in too much of one or another, or that they locked together. It's easier to give advice basically, and it's easier to learn, because you're concentrating on just the feed strength and the appearance of the plants. That's where your main focus needs to be when you're learning to grow.
With regards NPK...
Cannabis is happy on quite a broad range of numbers through the veg period. You could feed a 4-4-3 plant food through veg, just like you could feed a 5-2-4.
They should have a balance of all the main elements and will also have enough Nitrogen as a ratio to give good growth, even though the numbers are slightly different.
Flowering is where your growing will get very slightly more complicated, but, provided you have an idea what you're trying to do, not by much.
You don't want a high nitrogen feed in the flower period, but you don't want your plants to go yellow too early from nitrogen deficiency
The trick is knowing when the vegetative growth has stopped and when the plant's main focus is now on flowering, or setting fruit.
With cannabis, when the initial stretch is finishing (usually about the 2nd week of 12/12) it's ok to reduce the nitrogen by switching to a bloom feed.
This is where knowing the numbers helps.
Some bloom foods are still high in nitrogen compared to others. One I used, called plant magic, was something like 4-3-4. It was basically a veg feed with a bloom label. Used on it's own, it would give dark green thick leafy buds.
Others use a more orthodox ratio, like 3-4-5 or 4-5-8 etc.
Sometimes... even with the 3-4-5 feed, especially towards the peak point in flower, you might find that, used alone, they're still a bit high in nitrogen.
You'll learn as you go, and no words on a screen can show you this. You'll learn to judge the calyx to leaf ratio, and you'll get an understanding (especially when you overdo the nitrogen) what a high leaf ratio looks like. Leaves poking from the buds themselves should be small and delicate. High nitrogen makes them big and thick, at the expense of bud weight when dry.
What you do at the mid point in flower is simply reduce the base feed by 0.2 and replace it with 0.2 of your PK booster.
This just changes the ratio of your main food to be made up mainly of P&K, and less of N. It's a very simple adjustment to make, and that's the reason you make it.
Finally, with regards to your question: Start feeding at 1.0ec of your CNS veg feed. If your tap water is about 0.2, add 0.8 cns to bring it to 1.0.
Once you know a good NPK ratio for veg, the actual strength of the feed doesn't vary by much if at all.
(Just to make sure, do you have an EC meter?)
If there's any of that you want me to clarify or explain more, just say.
"however all the sick plants that i moved outdoor after 3 weeks get completely recovered ( regardless of the soil and treatment)"
If they completely recover when you take them outside ( regardless of the soil and treatment), this implies that there was something wrong in your indoor environment, perhaps off gassing. Otherwise, why would they improve when you take them outside, regardless of the soil and treatment?
If they completely recover when you take them outside ( regardless of the soil and treatment), this implies that there was something wrong in your indoor environment, perhaps off gassing. Otherwise, why would they improve when you take them outside, regardless of the soil and treatment?
Wow, thank you so much for all that. It's kinda busy at my house right now and i can't be on for long but I wanted to say I appreciate this. I will write more when I have a moment.
I do have a PPM reader, a Hanna and a Milwaukee pH reader. I take detailed notes every step of the way.
I should probably start my own post huh? I apologize for jacking your thread!
Here you go papa, this is who you saved.lol She was 3 weeks old in the first pic taken last Saturday Dec 14. This was the day I read your posts.
http://moocash.us/errol/etce/ICMAG/photo1%20.PNG
Here is the same plant today a week later. She's a month old tomorrow. Thanks dude!
http://moocash.us/errol/etce/ICMAG/photo1%20.PNG
Here is the same plant today a week later. She's a month old tomorrow. Thanks dude!
Hey Fella!What a difference. You've turned her around nicely. Keep us updated on how she gets on and what you're feeding her.
Thank you so much man! I ordered some cannastart in addition to the cns17, it will come tomorrow.
I have been feeding the cheese plant pictured above and a 5 day seedling .8ec of cns17 with 1ml of rapid start per gallon. At 1.0ec the lower leaves started to get a slight discoloration at the tips and overall the plant looked dark green. I took your advise and knocked back the ec a bit and she looks great!
Today I walked into the grow room and it smelled like pot plants! The cns17 kicks ass. The new seedling started in it is rocking. I have a bunch of seeds coming next week that I will use the cannastart on. You were right, it does kick the shit out of problems!
Maybe I will start a thread when I start those new seeds. I seem to have a problem with damping off when I put germinated seeds into coco. I think my medium is too moist and it's killing them. Id love to hear your advise!
Thank you so much, you made my Christmas a lot more positive this year! I hope you have a good Christmas!
Bongstar420
Member
Im not sure what you did, but it appears that CNS17 is 3-1-2 (a good veg ratio). Im not familiar with EC readings and generally do not test for either dissolved solids or ph, but veg pot likes P at around 20-30ppm in veg (I just use a fertilizer calculator I made and trust that labeling is relatively accurate). I'm willing to bet that what you had was what I went through. Excess P and a concurrent deficiency in N/K. The key P level in flower is 50ppm (soluble) or so constant feed, but you slowly work towards that over about 4 weeks.
I do not recommend you buy fertilizers like what you did (the price is much higher simply because of branding). It costs around $30/gal and probably has 1lb of actual fertilizer in it. The description says its for professional growers, but a pro does not pay $30/lb of nutrients. A pro pays about $3/lb and is managing acres of multiple species of plants requiring multiple treatment plans. I pay about $6/lb nutrients but some of my stuff is technical grade lab chemicals (like I have a gallon of Tech grade %60 phosphoric acid for P only adjusting and for synthesis of hard to procure Phosphorous compounds).
For instance, in your case I would have applied Tech grade Urea ($2-3/lb) and Food grade Potassium citrate ($4-5/lb) assuming the micros were adequate (I use oxide/sulfates blended with PPE Cal/Mg carbonates/sulfates that supply for the whole cycle- wont work well in high nitrate feeds with no acid adds). This would fix the issue and both of these substances are bacteria/fungi food. They will grow big colonies of bacteria just sitting in a bucket (citrates more than Urea).
If you wish to continue the CNS 17, you will likely need mild periodic boosts in P and may possibly see very slight excesses in N depending on what your growing (my Cplants seem to be rather P hungry as my veg P is not too much less in ratio terms than my flower P). Rotating the CannaStart will deal with the possible slight N exess, but it may not help with the P issue if there is one.
For damping off. Use sterile (unused/uninoculated potting soil counts) media with distilled water. Reused media will not work. It's better than applying pesticides and is %100 effective. If you must reuse, heat the media to 150-200f for like 20min or so. That will be +%90 effective. Sprays can vary in effectiveness from %0-100 depending on a lot of things. Inoculants can cause damping off and are generally a waste of time anyways according to my experience and research.
Im having major issues with my seedlings as well. Looks like the same thing.
They are in FFOF soil. Ive been giving them only tap water ph'ed to around 6.5.
It takes 16 drops of down to get to that ph though. I have high ppm tap water.
I havent given them any Cal-Mag+.
Do you think they cant absorb nutrients because of this?
They looked burned to shit so I thought the C-M+ would burn them even more?
I t/p'ed them from solo cups to 1gln pots and they are MUCH worse in 2 days.
What should I do? FFOF has alot of nutrients in there. You think I should feed them lightly?
Ive never had to feed seedlings before.
They are in FFOF soil. Ive been giving them only tap water ph'ed to around 6.5.
It takes 16 drops of down to get to that ph though. I have high ppm tap water.
I havent given them any Cal-Mag+.
Do you think they cant absorb nutrients because of this?
They looked burned to shit so I thought the C-M+ would burn them even more?
I t/p'ed them from solo cups to 1gln pots and they are MUCH worse in 2 days.
What should I do? FFOF has alot of nutrients in there. You think I should feed them lightly?
Ive never had to feed seedlings before.
Bongstar420
Member
Its important to know the medias nute load by counting ingredients and measuring run off. I dont think adding nutrients is going to help.
You shouldnt need to adjust ph unless your media has only nitrate N (not very hot). Bicarbonates in the water can pose an issue but your water has to be loaded and youve got to have a good reason to not use Urea or Ammonia...What is you ph down anyways? That makes a difference.
Frequently ph down is just diluted Phosphoric acid and/or Sulfuric acid. This can add significant amounts of P and/or S (not as important with S) to the solution and should be counted in the nutrient schedule. If you ph down is Phosphoric acid, the answer is to use Citric acid (or some other organic acid) after you wash that P out.
You probably will need Magnesium tho as tap water usually has mostly Calcium carbonates and bicarbonates in some situations (check for Sodium though because that can happen and is bad). Google your town name + water quality report. The government will provide you with the analysis of what your tap has in it if it is a city municipal source. Otherwise, youve got to find a lab to do the analysis.
My guess is excess P (from ph down that wasnt counted as a nutrient) which is not quite the same as inadequate N/K, but more information is needed. Young specimens are more sensitive to excesses in P.
You shouldnt need to adjust ph unless your media has only nitrate N (not very hot). Bicarbonates in the water can pose an issue but your water has to be loaded and youve got to have a good reason to not use Urea or Ammonia...What is you ph down anyways? That makes a difference.
Frequently ph down is just diluted Phosphoric acid and/or Sulfuric acid. This can add significant amounts of P and/or S (not as important with S) to the solution and should be counted in the nutrient schedule. If you ph down is Phosphoric acid, the answer is to use Citric acid (or some other organic acid) after you wash that P out.
You probably will need Magnesium tho as tap water usually has mostly Calcium carbonates and bicarbonates in some situations (check for Sodium though because that can happen and is bad). Google your town name + water quality report. The government will provide you with the analysis of what your tap has in it if it is a city municipal source. Otherwise, youve got to find a lab to do the analysis.
My guess is excess P (from ph down that wasnt counted as a nutrient) which is not quite the same as inadequate N/K, but more information is needed. Young specimens are more sensitive to excesses in P.
Do not feed. Already overfed. I would flush one of those with RO water and see if it helps.
