Dab on this, then attempt to build a 12k growroom

[DabOnDabs]

Is there enough meat in the budget after this run for a split? That seems like the move .. Kind of take the hit on the RH for this run, and next run, seal the room & jam it out.. ?



If you can seal the room, a 5-disc fogger setup oughtta be able to do the trick for that whole room.

Edit: Room looks great.

I had a pretty limited budget with what I could upgrade to this round. I pretty much had two choices...

I could seal up my 4k grow, and use Air conditioning during the coldest months of the year....

Or go with a bunch of lights this time, and add air conditioning and dehueys next time when it gets hot out... To me, it seemed more logical to max our on lighting now with the cold air, knowing it wouldnt be ideal, than to have one relatively small, perfectly controlled room. I guess you could argue either one, and trust me..It took me a ton of designs, redesigns, etc etc. On top of that, everything always ends up costing way more than you thought in construction, electrical, plumbing, etc..

So to answer your question..Yes. Mini splits for days.

Those foggers are dope. I'll definately look into getting one...Everyone gets a little christmas cash!

Can you explain the difference between 1 and 5 jet foggers?... would 5 1 jet foggers be better than 1 5 jet fogger?

 

[Arthritis_sucks]

Hey Dabs....The first thing needed once yas got some cash in the budget will be a ultrasonic disc pond fogger or hydrofogger.com to keep Humidity @ 70 % till end of stretch , and then as low below 50% till end of cycle to help prevent airborn pathogens from getting a foothold in the room durin late swellage.....

Air exchange twice per minute plus wall fans creating a "vortex" of air all around the plants but never on em helps to keep airborn pathogens from being able to form......That`s how the big room guys on the left coast do it.....and....

The best kept secret is how the one`s that "claim" they run sealed w/CO2 , actually run major exhaust during lights off to suck out excess humidity from big plants transpiring , as well as all the excess CO2 the plants shit out that they didn`t use/metabolize during lights on.....now.....

Your plant placement may be 5 x 30 w/12KW , but your room`s 9 x 30 , and that`s what determines the amount of watts per sq ft you`re runnin , so instead of 80 per your actually only runnin 44.44.....

Which ain`t bad while yas dial environment during lights on and off along with the right strains for bare bulb setups......anyways....

5 ton minisplit and sealed w/CO2 for 12KW , or air exchange twice per minute with lung areas that have a/c on thermostats to condition air being pumped into and sucked out of the rooms 24/7.....

Just tryin ta help from all those yrs Bro.....Not tryin ta shove shit down your throat or tell yas what to do......Only what works when the budget provides and yas figure out the way yas wanna roll.......

Good luck and holler if I can help , but.....I understand if yas leave....Hell....I`ve deleted my account here more times than I can count due to fucktard know-it-alls that didn`t know dick , but.....

I get several pm`s a day from newb`s that`re too intimidated to post in the bigger threads , so just wanted yas to know that even though this thread got shit on , guaranteed you`re helpin folks , so for that I thank yas for your time......

The older I get , the more I realize that helpin folks is what it`s all about....

Peace....DHF..........

Dropping knowledge up in here DHF.

 

[silver hawaiian]

Can you explain the difference between 1 and 5 jet foggers?... would 5 1 jet foggers be better than 1 5 jet fogger?

In short, .. More discs is better. Each disc produces its own amount of vapor - so in that simple sense, .. Yes, .. More is more.

And to answer your question, heck no.

 

[flat9]

The pond fogger won't do it methinks Freds. You'd have to load a bunch of them in there, maybe two 5 gallon buckets w/ a pond fogger each per plant. I'm just running 1200 watts right now and with a fairly strong pond fogger and two buckets I can get my RH up to about 50%. Hoping the plants will raise the RH when I bump it up to about 2400 in flower.

 

[silver hawaiian]

The pond fogger won't do it methinks Freds. You'd have to load a bunch of them in there, maybe two 5 gallon buckets w/ a pond fogger each per plant. I'm just running 1200 watts right now and with a fairly strong pond fogger and two buckets I can get my RH up to about 50%. Hoping the plants will raise the RH when I bump it up to about 2400 in flower.

Are you running that 1200W in a sealed room? Sounds like you're exhausting out of the room..

I've seen, firsthand, a single 5-disc fogger adequately humidify a sealed ~ 10 x 15' room.

 

[AlterEgo860]

listen to dhf.. very smart man.. I didn't realize how much info this dude has up in that brain.. but its there.. and very good info.. so pick his brain if u need.. hes probably the most friendly person ive met on any site EVER...

another thing.. ive realized that having a bigger room.. and smaller footprint leaves a lot of wasted light.. so either make moveable walls and get it as small as possible.. I had to add an extra 1000w. inbetween my 2 1000s.. the extra is setup vert.. to make sure the plants on the outside of each of the hoods footprint receive extra light.. I only run the vert light.. 5 times a day for 2 hours each.. and honestly I can say I see a difference how much more uniform the growth is..

 

[DHF]

The pond fogger won't do it methinks Freds. You'd have to load a bunch of them in there, maybe two 5 gallon buckets w/ a pond fogger each per plant. I'm just running 1200 watts right now and with a fairly strong pond fogger and two buckets I can get my RH up to about 50%. Hoping the plants will raise the RH when I bump it up to about 2400 in flower.

The ONLY wayta use foggers PERIOD to maintain VPD/proper RH is to either run sealed w/CO2 , or major air exchange twice per min WITH lung areas where the FOG can be created , pumped into , AND sucked out of continuously to be RE-conditioned and pumped right back into and out of etc , etc , etc ....that said....

Flat....Yas can`t create the fog "inside" the room and just suck it out...don`t work like that....anyways....Google VPD/vapor deficit pressure Dabs for insight on why elevated humidity levels @70% till end of stretch is crucial to dialing a room and it`s plant`s needs.......

Good luck...DHF..........

 

[DabOnDabs]

I've read a ton about vpd.. Unfortunately humidity was sorta an oversight on this grow... I guess I shoulda designed it with a lung room. The plants are tacoing a little bit here as there but otherwise look okay. I still think I can get 1.5 per light in this room.

 

[silver hawaiian]

Flat....Yas can`t create the fog "inside" the room and just suck it out..don`t work like that.....

 

[DabOnDabs]

I just really couldn't see a way to cool 12k without at least one dedicated outdoor intake... Turned out it took 2.. Wonder what temps would be if I had a dedicated lung room

 

[DHF]

I just really couldn't see a way to cool 12k without at least one dedicated outdoor intake... Turned out it took 2.. Wonder what temps would be if I had a dedicated lung room

Dedicated lung rooms are worth their weight in gold/green for end results if utilized properly , and you`re on the right track....so....

The goals are to find the proper 50/50 hybrids that can be exploited to pull every gram outta each and every sq in of wall space 360 degrees around each vertical bare bulb setup......and.....

As said above , dial room as budget permits.....18 lbs outta 12 lights is cool ta pay the bills in my book.....Runs under yer belt.....The more yas get the more yas got....bet on it....Take care and good luck.....

Peace.....DHF..........

 

[anonymousgrow]

good to see the thread is back on track and the hate has died down. How far into 12/12 are you? I'm sure it's in here somewhere when you flipped but there was also a lot of negativity back there so I thought I would just ask. If you get the chance you should throw up some more pics.

 

[flat9]

The ONLY wayta use foggers PERIOD to maintain VPD/proper RH is to either run sealed w/CO2 , or major air exchange twice per min WITH lung areas where the FOG can be created , pumped into , AND sucked out of continuously to be RE-conditioned and pumped right back into and out of etc , etc , etc ....that said....

Flat....Yas can`t create the fog "inside" the room and just suck it out...don`t work like that....anyways....Google VPD/vapor deficit pressure Dabs for insight on why elevated humidity levels @70% till end of stretch is crucial to dialing a room and it`s plant`s needs.......

Good luck...DHF..........

Actually it worked pretty well in raising the RH from 25% to over 50% when running 600 watts mh + 300 watts LED (the latter which sucks little/no humidity out of the air). Pond fogger in 5 gal bucket filled w/ maybe 4 gallons of water and honeywell fan blowing into bucket through bucket lid with hole, bucket lid slightly ajar to allow humidified air to exit into the environment. I'd have to get about 4 or 5 of them, though, w/ a controller, to maintain 70% w/ 2400 watts.

I slowed the air exchange a bit (slightly higher temps but still < 78) and now it bounces between 45% and 65%. Not controlled w/ humidistat controller as of yet. Found one for 30 bucks on Amazon but you need to hook it up to electrical sockets (which I don't have as of yet ... out of town for about ten days).

For Dabs, I think he could conceivably do it w/ a pond fogger but it's gonna take a shit-ton of them. Those 5 ceramic disc foggers would obviously be more efficient. And yeah, definitely get them w/ a float! Some linkage of some options:

5 disc fogger: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000E1GR6Q
1 disc fogger: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B007KRPVR8
Humidity controller: http://www.amazon.com/IMAGE®-Digital-Humidity-Control-Controller/dp/B009VY1ANM

Note on that last link: you gotta get some electrical wire, build a little particle board container box (that thing is very small) with one of these to wire up your input power:

http://www.amazon.com/Inlet-Module-Switch-Socket-IEC320/dp/B0050HH70E

And one of these to wire up your load (in this case, pond fogger + fan, etc.):

http://www.amazon.com/Amico-Pins-Power-Socket-Black/dp/B008J80J1A

 

[Coconutz]

Hey Dabs....The first thing needed once yas got some cash in the budget will be a ultrasonic disc pond fogger or hydrofogger.com to keep Humidity @ 70 % till end of stretch , and then as low below 50% till end of cycle to help prevent airborn pathogens from getting a foothold in the room durin late swellage.....

Air exchange twice per minute plus wall fans creating a "vortex" of air all around the plants but never on em helps to keep airborn pathogens from being able to form......That`s how the big room guys on the left coast do it.....and....

The best kept secret is how the one`s that "claim" they run sealed w/CO2 , actually run major exhaust during lights off to suck out excess humidity from big plants transpiring , as well as all the excess CO2 the plants shit out that they didn`t use/metabolize during lights on.....now.....

Your plant placement may be 5 x 30 w/12KW , but your room`s 9 x 30 , and that`s what determines the amount of watts per sq ft you`re runnin , so instead of 80 per your actually only runnin 44.44.....and.....

Yas can wrap the walls and ceilings with reflectix/prodex/orca of your choice when budget permits to bounce those lost lumens up , down , and all around the room to improve dramatically lumen penetration/plant absorption.....

44.44 ain`t bad while yas dial environment during lights on and off along with the right strains for bare bulb setups......anyways....

5 ton minisplit and sealed w/CO2 for 12KW , or air exchange twice per minute with lung areas that have a/c on thermostats to condition air being pumped into and sucked out of the rooms 24/7.....

Just tryin ta help from all those yrs Bro.....Not tryin ta shove shit down your throat or tell yas what to do......Only what works when the budget provides and yas figure out the way yas wanna roll.......

Good luck and holler if I can help , but.....I understand if yas leave....Hell....I`ve deleted my account here more times than I can count due to fucktard know-it-alls that didn`t know dick , but.....

I get several pm`s a day from newb`s that`re too intimidated to post in the bigger threads , so just wanted yas to know that even though this thread got shit on , guaranteed you`re helpin folks , so for that I thank yas for your time......

The older I get , the more I realize that helpin folks is what it`s all about....

Peace....DHF..........

What up homie... When you say RH 70% til end of stretch and you say that sealed rooms exhaust humidity at night... Are you saying to reduce humidity below 70% during stretch during the lights off cycle?
Sorry if thats worded poorly. Im having a hard time with all this weed Im vaping holmes

 

[DabOnDabs]

What up homie... When you say RH 70% til end of stretch and you say that sealed rooms exhaust humidity at night... Are you saying to reduce humidity below 70% during stretch during the lights off cycle?
Sorry if thats worded poorly. Im having a hard time with all this weed Im vaping holmes

70% during both day and night till end of stretch

The sealed rooms will go way above 70 at night without a dehuey or exhaust

After that, 50 % day an night

 

[DHF]

70% during both day and night till end of stretch

The sealed rooms will go way above 70 at night without a dehuey or exhaust

After that, 50 % day an night

Exactly ....but....the reason they`ve gone hybrid over the yrs and exhaust during lights off is to cut production costs since dehuey`s cost out the ass to run power draw wise , and.....

Runnin fresh air through the rooms for 12 hrs during lights off all but cleanses and purges said grow areas of any potential threat of airborn pathogens during late swellage when the plants are drinking and sweating/transpiring so much in a dialed environment....anyways....Old heads try to cut expenditures on a fiscal basis for bottom line returns....

Good luck on your setup Dabs....

Peace....DHF...........

 

[Coconutz]

Exactly ....but....the reason they`ve gone hybrid over the yrs and exhaust during lights off is to cut production costs since dehuey`s cost out the ass to run power draw wise , and.....

Runnin fresh air through the rooms for 12 hrs during lights off all but cleanses and purges said grow areas of any potential threat of airborn pathogens during late swellage when the plants are drinking and sweating/transpiring so much in a dialed environment....anyways....Old heads try to cut expenditures on a fiscal basis for bottom line returns....

Good luck on your setup Dabs....

Peace....DHF...........

So are you saying that they dont warm the air in the lung room or pre condition the RH up to 70% because of expenses of the dehuey?
Is it really any cheaper to condition the "fresh" air, or do they just not worry about VPD and let it get cool and dry?

 

[DabOnDabs]

So are you saying that they dont warm the air in the lung room or pre condition the RH up to 70% because of expenses of the dehuey?
Is it really any cheaper to condition the "fresh" air, or do they just not worry about VPD and let it get cool and dry?

I think you're missing the point a little bit coconutz, let me see if i can aid DHF in pointing you in the right direction..



During the day, these folks with sealed rooms are conditioning and dehumidifying their rooms, along with supplementing CO2. At night, the plant doesnt need the CO2, and the humidity will skyrocket...especially later in flower when their is more foliage and bud sites in the room.. The transpiration that occurs during their night cycle, combined with the lower temperature creates massive humidity

What DHF is saying is that rather than use their Dehuey for 12 hours to keep that room cool, they just suck out all that wet humid air for 12 hours, keeping the exhaust fan set to exhaust when humidity goes above 70..

This way, the fan only operates when the humidity is too high, and can usually take care of the excess quickly.

Now i doubt these guys are using a passive intake or anything like that.. during nights off, or even an active air intake...my understanding is the fresh air "coming in" really isnt fresh air at all, its just recycled and cooled room air(from the a/c)...The co2 creates the illusion of "fresh" air for the plants, and is only added when the lights come back on

 

[DabOnDabs]

Exactly ....but....the reason they`ve gone hybrid over the yrs and exhaust during lights off is to cut production costs since dehuey`s cost out the ass to run power draw wise , and.....

Runnin fresh air through the rooms for 12 hrs during lights off all but cleanses and purges said grow areas of any potential threat of airborn pathogens during late swellage when the plants are drinking and sweating/transpiring so much in a dialed environment....anyways....Old heads try to cut expenditures on a fiscal basis for bottom line returns....

Good luck on your setup Dabs....

Peace....DHF...........

Young heads do it too

We cheap bastards who save everyyyyyyy penny

 

[DHF]

Young heads do it too

We cheap bastards who save everyyyyyyy penny

That`s MY buddy.... A penny saved is a penny earned.....

Cheap bastards rule and all else drool...........and ....yeah Bro....That`s pretty much it for coconutz question except that the lights off controllers are just fans plugged into cheapass humidistats.....remember....Cheap bastards ?.....now....

Sealed rooms create their own "fresh air" since plants eat CO2 and shit oxygen , and we eat oxygen and shit CO2.....thus life on planet earth.......and then....for the most part Coconutz......

In all my fliprooms with air exchange twice per minute I controlled environment in the lung rooms with a/c and dehueys to keep all excess heat outta the grow areas , but I had dehueys also mounted "thru-wall" in all fliprooms that were finishing to kick on during late flower lights off only with the plants a month or so apart in age........then.....

The environment bein pumped into and sucked outta both rooms 24/7/365 was constantly conditioned and re-conditioned with RH in the mid 70`s and temps usually ran mid 80`s without need for a/c in the grow areas due to the vortex of air movement.....anyways....

Hope that helps coconutz...... and Dabs.....get backta work...........

Peace....DHF.............

Edit.....The guys I`m talkin bout use bigass active intakes AND exhaust scrubber combo`s on thermostats and speed controllers to not drop lights off temps lower than a 10 degree variable.....pretty fukin simple once yas wrap your head around environment control and do it for a while......