Seems the only thing that matters, is how your peers see reality. You have to see reality as others do, or you can get into trouble. The great religious icons all convinced people of different realities. Thats a rare achievmen. So unless you can effortlessly bring people to your level, your risking your life. Even the story of Jesus, failed to convince people. That's why they killed him like a witch! So unless you can go on some sort of Christain war path and kill all those that appose you, better keep it quiet!
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Is it possible that reality is not what you think?...yes?/no?...lol
- Thread starter southflorida
- Start date
Since the Human Condition is occuring in our mind's imagination, we really have nothing to fear...but fear itself
But, yes I do agree that if someone is not ready to awaken they should not be pushed or in any way forced into awakening. Those that are ready will be searching inside themselves for answers.
And eventually finding them.
This is why I was shocked by some folks attacking this perspective in this forum. I mean if it's not your cup of tea, find another flavor...right?
like it, or leave it changes nothing.
give some effort to your examination if you will the truth. it isn't as obvious as it appears, for we deceive ourselves for comfort and profit.
suspend disbelief! the truth is accessible to all...
...and it's not three dollars fifteen and ninetenths to find.
give some effort to your examination if you will the truth. it isn't as obvious as it appears, for we deceive ourselves for comfort and profit.
suspend disbelief! the truth is accessible to all...
...and it's not three dollars fifteen and ninetenths to find.
What i Think about Reality is not relevant to Reality itself. In the same way what I Think about It it´s not relevant in any way to what You Think about It.
Thinking our reality already comes from a illusory position and that illusory position of power, the illusion of being able of explaining Existenzzzzzzzzzzz, has already provoked some trouble between us Humans
This said the distinction between Reality and Illusion does not seems a good one to me...aren´t my illusions Real in some way? Aren´t there some Realities that in due time will be proofed illusions?
Does our present vocabulary copes with this kind of discussion? In what sense?
Thank you guys for making this OG Pest joint even tastier. I love food for thought!!!
Thinking our reality already comes from a illusory position and that illusory position of power, the illusion of being able of explaining Existenzzzzzzzzzzz
, has already provoked some trouble between us Humans This said the distinction between Reality and Illusion does not seems a good one to me...aren´t my illusions Real in some way? Aren´t there some Realities that in due time will be proofed illusions?
Does our present vocabulary copes with this kind of discussion? In what sense?
Thank you guys for making this OG Pest joint even tastier. I love food for thought!!!
Since the Human Condition is occuring in our mind's imagination, we really have nothing to fear...but fear itself
But, yes I do agree that if someone is not ready to awaken they should not be pushed or in any way forced into awakening. Those that are ready will be searching inside themselves for answers.
And eventually finding them.
This is why I was shocked by some folks attacking this perspective in this forum. I mean if it's not your cup of tea, find another flavor...right?
People have a different understanding of awakening. They think being awake is being that news reporter image. They don't want to get dirty and look bad, even if that's what it takes to be more aware of your living being.
I wish to be more aware of my post living being. I care about my living being, but am not very great at living. I suspect I am better at dying in the astral realms. But I can't prove that is why I have a bad life. I can't prove that because I don't know my after life, I can't improve this one much or really want too all that much!
I wish I could prove that the after life is important. I do think shamanic drugs could aid this, as that is their purpose. Healing takes a will and I need some will to heal.
Maybe my life isn't so bad, but it's not super clean or organized. I have things to get by, but not live a super awake life. I guess I like how chaotic dirt takes a highly artistic design when I do use shamnic aids.
the truth is accessible to all and it's free
by simply observing that the only thing that doesn't change during waking, dreaming, and deep-sleep states is the back-ground Consciousness of Consciousness or Awareness of "I am"
this is the absolute truth...that we "are"
...the relative truth is created when we add that we are + a body/mind to it
This is true in relation to absolute reality. In other words, no matter what you, me, or anyone else thinks or does, we will still all remain Consciousness of Being, since that is what we "are."
But, in relation to our relative reality, it is different, because relative reality occurs in your imagination, inside your mind. This means that what you think is what you perceive.
In fact, I am a body/mind is the primary thought you think in relative reality. This can be noticed by the fact that while you are in the waking state and while you are dreaming you assume you are the mind inside the body that is perceiving everything.
And in the dreaming state you are another body, and while dreaming you are convinced you are that body for sure right?
But, when you wake up, you think "how silly it is of me to think that body/mind in that dream is real."
But, what makes you so sure that this body/mind is not a similar experience like in your dreams? and that this body/mind is also simply your mind imagining it all...just like it does when dreaming?
Thinking our reality already comes from a illusory position and that illusory position of power, the illusion of being able of explaining Existenzzzzzzzzzzz
trouble is provoked by folks that believe/assume that they are their bodies and minds and that all the other folks are separate from them.
absolute existence can't be explained by the way, this attempt at finding an explanation for the masses is always based on some person inventing an idea or belief, and then convincing other people that their invention is absolutely true!
but, there is one absolute truth...and it is that "I (we) am (exist)"
all explanations added to this absolute truth become relative, because they will be based on mental concepts.
...and this includes adding body, mind, race, age, occupation, etc, etc to "I am."
Absolute reality is simple. I am. (period)...nothing to add or take away
Relative reality is very complex.
Why? Because it adds a whole snowball of concepts to "I am"
If you want an example, just think of everything that you believe about yourself. This will include all the memories you have about yourself, which could be called your life story.
Your social identity/self (and mine and everyone else's) includes so many beliefs and assumptions, it would take years to get these concepts out into the open, where we are completely aware of them.
Yes, the mind loves good weed and thinking.
Sadly, it's true. Becoming awake, as a rule is made into an ideal to strive toward.
In reality, being awake is about BEING awake.
Meaning being who you really are.
It is about being and NOT doing.
Being who you are is all it takes. Your life is the way it IS.
It isn't good or bad, it is what it IS.
Good or bad is an interpretation made by your mind.
But, you are NOT your mind. You are the awareness that is aware of your mind (and body).
If you were your mind or your body you would not be aware of them, you would simply be them.
...see the difference?
So the fact that you are aware of your mind/body points at the fact that you are NOT them.
Simply be who you are, and don't worry about the dirt.
beliefs, opinions, and facts are all relative, they are not absolute, and don't matter that much...imho
what DOES MATTER is your direct experience of who you really ARE in each moment of your life, which is always here and now.
what does your direct experience tell you? who are you? really?
are you a body/mind combo?
or are you the awareness...that's aware of the body/mind and the outside world?
If it's all relative and not absolute and therefore don't matter much then why not call them opinions rather then facts? Most people interpret the word "fact" to in fact be an absolute. When most people are saying something is a fact they are meaning it proven to a point as to be uncontestable.
Your use of the word fact when you claim it has no more real weight then opinion would suggest you know most people interpret fact as being absolute and therefore you hope people will just accept what you say because you labeled it as a fact rather then developing a similar opinion after following a line of reasoning to the same or similar conclusion.
If you truly felt descriptive labels such as beliefs, opinions and facts didn't mean much you wouldn't waste time cluttering up ideas you are trying to convey with meaningless words that might confuse or mislead.
I am making a distinction between relative truth (beliefs, opinions, facts, assumptions, i.e. "concepts") and absolute truth (what is) in this last few pages of this thread.
Obviously if a human being interprets something as a fact, it doesn't mean that it is an absolute truth.
Any interpretation is always relative to the consciousness that is interpreting incoming data. This includes human beings and other sentient beings.
Actually I'm going to say that everything that is interpreted by any sentient being (including humans) is 100% relative to their consciousness.
Interpretation is a secondary process and does not provide the carrier of the consciousness with direct data.
Absolute truth, on the other hand is what is absolutely true always, and does not involve interpretation.
It is very simple, and nothing confusing about it.
There are two domains. Relative truth and Absolute truth.
If we make a distinction between the two, it is all simple.
If we confuse relative truth with absolute, then, yes, it gets confusing.
And that is what we have in the human condition, in case you have not noticed.
A lot of confusion.
Why?
Because folks are assuming relative truths are absolute truths.
Not being aware of the difference leads to massive suffering and struggle, and as a consequence leads to massive consumption in order to cover up and compensate for the pain caused by the suffering and struggling.
The primary ways people suffer are feeling empty, feeling self-doubt, and feeling trapped by all kinds of circumstances (internal and external).
And struggling is how we try to cope with this suffering.
Just look at the USA statistics...the way Americans are attempting to cope.
Most overdrugged (illegal and legal)
Most obese
Most in-debt
Most etc...etc...etc
...you get the picture where I'm going with this.
===================
False beliefs and assumptions are the root of suffering and the struggle that is currently a part of the human condition.
And false beliefs and assumptions have their root in not knowing the difference between what is absolutely true and what is relatively true.
I would say 99.9% of human beings are going through this.
Though both our mind and all the objective knowledge known by it appear to be real, the reality of each is relative only to the other. Whatever is real only relatively is not really real at all, because in order to be truly real, a thing must be absolutely and unconditionally real.
Only that which is absolutely and unconditionally real is real at all times, in all states and under all conditions, whereas that which is relatively real appears to be real only at certain times, in certain states and under certain conditions.
This means that whatever appears to be real only at certain times, in certain states and under certain conditions, is merely an appearance, and hence it is only seemingly real.
Therefore, the only knowledge that can surely be considered as real or true knowledge is our direct, unconfused, clear and certain knowledge of our own essential consciousnessof being "I am."
Until and unless we attain such clear and certain knowledge, any other knowledge that we may attain will be uncertain and open to doubt.
Only when we attain true knowledge of our consciousness of being "I am" will we be in a position to judge the truth and validity of all our other knowledge.
Thus the belief that objective research can lead to true knowledge – a belief that is "implicit in" and "central" to the philosophy upon which all modern science is currently based – is philosophically unsound, and is based more upon wishful thinking than upon any deep or honest philosophical analysis.
Only that which is absolutely and unconditionally real is real at all times, in all states and under all conditions, whereas that which is relatively real appears to be real only at certain times, in certain states and under certain conditions.
This means that whatever appears to be real only at certain times, in certain states and under certain conditions, is merely an appearance, and hence it is only seemingly real.
Therefore, the only knowledge that can surely be considered as real or true knowledge is our direct, unconfused, clear and certain knowledge of our own essential consciousnessof being "I am."
Until and unless we attain such clear and certain knowledge, any other knowledge that we may attain will be uncertain and open to doubt.
Only when we attain true knowledge of our consciousness of being "I am" will we be in a position to judge the truth and validity of all our other knowledge.
Thus the belief that objective research can lead to true knowledge – a belief that is "implicit in" and "central" to the philosophy upon which all modern science is currently based – is philosophically unsound, and is based more upon wishful thinking than upon any deep or honest philosophical analysis.
S
SPG*
Glad that Spliff in the Ashtray is Still there!
Lol SF
. (U make me laugh I.e un fazed )
Lol SF
. (U make me laugh I.e un fazed )
i'm afraid this information will unravel many a head, and get too close for comfort. that may be why it's being contested....
clarity of mind is resonance with the greater conciousness. confusion is interference with that resonance.
while light has many wavelenths, understanding does also...standing waves receive no interference.
without resonance understanding/comprehension is lost in the interference pattern.
beliefs and assumptions are the interference to resonance with the conciousness/reality.
g'luck
clarity of mind is resonance with the greater conciousness. confusion is interference with that resonance.
while light has many wavelenths, understanding does also...standing waves receive no interference.
without resonance understanding/comprehension is lost in the interference pattern.
beliefs and assumptions are the interference to resonance with the conciousness/reality.
g'luck
Yes trichrider...when the mind is turned "inward" it starts to get burned-up by the Consciousness-of-Being-I-Am, and since the mind is like a fog that disappears when the Sun rays shine on it, the mind wants to look "outwards" into the Universe, and never come in contact with the Sun (consciousnes/being).
Looking outwards is comforting for the mind.
Why?
Because all it sees is " itself" and it can continue believing it is absolutely real and everything it perceives is also absolutely real.
But, the mind or what it perceives is not absolutely real and can never be absolutely real, because the mind is a secondary process, and this is obvious because it can never stop thinking and imagining, except for deep sleep, when the mind/body completely disappear, and all that exists there is Consciosness/Being.
Dreaming is different from deep sleep, by the way, because in dreaming our mind is always creating all kinds of other bodies to take "ownership of" and always creating an outside world where this "imagined body/mind combo" is also experiencing stuff through the perceptions of the five sense organs.
But, in deep sleep, all there is Being/Consciousness there is no doing.
This points toward how the mind operates, and what is also interesting is how similar the dream state and the waking state are.
In the waking state, which is this state where we believe/assume we are the "real" body/mind combo, the mind is simply more identified with the body it is imagining, while in the dreaming state it is not so attached, and releases it quite easily.
So, basically, the waking state is also the state of dreaming a body/mind, and fundamentally it is not that different from the dreaming state.
In addition to this, the mind loves to look "outwards" because it can continue to "identify with" and "grasp for" all kinds of stuff it imagines inside itself.
Why does it do this?
Because it is not absolutely real, and in order to "survive" - it always needs to "grab on" to all kinds of thoughts/concepts on a moment-to-moment basis.
This way it can continue to believe that it is a "real thing" that lives inside a physical human body and perceives a physical outside world and Universe.
But this is all relative. It is relative to the mind that is perceiving "stuff" through the five senses, and since the mind is not "absolute" or "fundamental" or "primary" - but instead is secondary (2nd), all it really perceives are tertiary (3rd) perceptions/thoughts/concepts.
Fundamentally, perceptions/thoughts/concepts are all what the mind imagines, and this points toward an interesting insight that our minds is nothing but a process of imagination.
It is obvious that Consciousness/Being is Primary (1st) and the mind or the world/Universe couldn't exist without it. They don't really exist anyway, they just seem to exist, but this is heavier than most folks in this forum can handle, so I won't go into that
One can see the truth of what I wrote above by simply looking at what our mind/body combo does all day long:
...It runs toward all kinds of desires that it believes will FINALLY bring it the happiness that it, for some reason can't permanently create and grab onto, and it runs away from what it believes will bring it pain and suffering.
This is all that basically every human being on this earth is doing on a daily basis over, and over, and over again, until death.
And it doesn't matter if he is Bill Gates or a homeless living on any street in the world.
I'm only interested in the absolute truth, and that is why I choose to turn my attention "inwards" - and let the chips fall wherever they happen to fall
Since I am aware what fear is, and am aware that it is not absolutely true, I am not afraid of letting go of my belief/assumption that I am a body/mind combo, and simply being myself, who I truly am.
True...the only thing standing in the way of being aware of who we are is mind, and mind is nothing but thoughts/beliefs/assumptions.
The mind is a conceptual snow ball, that melts quite fast under the rays of The Absolute and Non-Dual Consciousness of Being " I am"
Thanks, and always a pleasure
How does our reality relate to our human experience?
During my day to day existence,I do everything wrong and I am delusional.
On a galactic level,I'm part of a nasty fungus riding on a ball of carbon.
This ball of carbon is riding in bolt of energy going so fast,it's invisible to us.Plus its part of something so huge,we can't even comprehend.
I am pretty much sums up this thread.In the end ,it's all about perception but whose-whats perception.That is the oldest question of mankind.
What is the meaning of life?
Can we change the polarity of our spaceship with thought? What happens then?
http://youtu.be/_CzBlSXgzqI
During my day to day existence,I do everything wrong and I am delusional.
On a galactic level,I'm part of a nasty fungus riding on a ball of carbon.
This ball of carbon is riding in bolt of energy going so fast,it's invisible to us.Plus its part of something so huge,we can't even comprehend.
I am pretty much sums up this thread.In the end ,it's all about perception but whose-whats perception.That is the oldest question of mankind.
What is the meaning of life?
Can we change the polarity of our spaceship with thought? What happens then?
http://youtu.be/_CzBlSXgzqI
Our reality is our human experience. But the main question is who is this "our" ???
If our is we, as in many individual "I's" - then who is this I?
There are many words to describe this "I" - but this is not a direct experience, because a word can only represent something - the word can't be that thing it represents.
We get quite confused with this. We start thinking that words are the things that words are representing. Obviously this isn't so.
...just like the other 7 billion humans you mean?
What blows my mind is that it is all imagined inside our thinking, inside our imagination, inside our mind.
What's even more amazing is that most folks believe that all of this actually exists, that it is not JUST simply imagined in our mind.
By actually exists I do mean that most folks believe/assume that the Universe, their body, and everything they are perceiving is actually PRIMARY.
This is NOT so.
Far from it.
The mind is secondary, and everything the mind perceives is tertiary.
If the mind is secondary, and thus not real in itself, obviously what it perceives is not real either. It is only imagined by the mind.
This can't be answered with words, but can only be directly experienced.
I am - IS THIS "DIRECT" EXPERIENCE.
Fundamentally it is meaningless. Life simply IS.
...everything else is an addition on top of this IS.
What most folks don't grasp is that everything we are perceiving, including the outside world and our body/mind is similar to a dream, and it is all occuring inside the mind's imagination.
I am making a distinction between relative truth (beliefs, opinions, facts, assumptions, i.e. "concepts") and absolute truth (what is) in this last few pages of this thread.
Obviously if a human being interprets something as a fact, it doesn't mean that it is an absolute truth.
Any interpretation is always relative to the consciousness that is interpreting incoming data. This includes human beings and other sentient beings.
Actually I'm going to say that everything that is interpreted by any sentient being (including humans) is 100% relative to their consciousness.
Interpretation is a secondary process and does not provide the carrier of the consciousness with direct data.
Absolute truth, on the other hand is what is absolutely true always, and does not involve interpretation.
It is very simple, and nothing confusing about it.
There are two domains. Relative truth and Absolute truth.
If we make a distinction between the two, it is all simple.
If we confuse relative truth with absolute, then, yes, it gets confusing.
And that is what we have in the human condition, in case you have not noticed.
A lot of confusion.
Why?
Because folks are assuming relative truths are absolute truths.
Not being aware of the difference leads to massive suffering and struggle, and as a consequence leads to massive consumption in order to cover up and compensate for the pain caused by the suffering and struggling.
The primary ways people suffer are feeling empty, feeling self-doubt, and feeling trapped by all kinds of circumstances (internal and external).
And struggling is how we try to cope with this suffering.
Just look at the USA statistics...the way Americans are attempting to cope.
Most overdrugged (illegal and legal)
Most obese
Most in-debt
Most etc...etc...etc
...you get the picture where I'm going with this.
===================
False beliefs and assumptions are the root of suffering and the struggle that is currently a part of the human condition.
And false beliefs and assumptions have their root in not knowing the difference between what is absolutely true and what is relatively true.
I would say 99.9% of human beings are going through this.
Yes all this is true and out of context I agree with all this. The problem I have is when you start trying to be specific about what are absolute truths and what are relative truths. That's what I was trying to point out and you just danced around. You assume that individuals will come to the same conclusions as you and you've convinced yourself that if they don't they're too influenced by the forces controlling society to see what you're saying.
What two different people see as relative truth and absolute truth is still relative to their unique perspective. Now granted the vast majority of the public is caught up in trying to live up to a false image and then attempting to cope with the misery they feel when they can't find satisfaction that way. I don't know if I would agree with the 99.9% you throw out based on your relative view but I would agree it's a majority. These are the people most easily led and most easily influenced, that's why they'll hop on every new diet, exercise routine, exercise equipment, age reversing cosmetic, penis enhancing product, etc. that comes along. Ironically they are also the ones most likely to agree completely with you. Because you offer an argument that suggests they can with not much effort other then thinking about things differently they can magically turn their lives around and find enlightenment.
The reality is all you are doing is telling people not to just routinely accept what they're told but rather pay more attention and think more on their own which while not bad advice is not the earth shaking, reality transforming, panacea, you make it out to be.
The fact is reality is exactly what each of us thinks it is. If I look up in the sky and truly believe that I see the sky as red in color then no amount of people saying "no the sky is actually blue" will make me suddenly see the sky as blue. Just like no amount of me telling you there are flaws in your argument is going to make you see those flaws. The mind boggling part of reality isn't that what we see isn't reality it is that for each of us that reality is as unique and different yet similar as each of us are.
