BlueDigiBerry F2

[dank.frank]

Yeah, I really don't know what to think, other than they look healthy...lol. Can't explain the happenings...

Your #3 is super DJ looking type blueberry for certain though. No doubt. It seems a nice expression for sure. Looks to be needing some Ca though.

But in the last 10 years, I only remember ONE plant go tri on me - so, LOL - it's really not something I have much experience with. Sorry.



dank.Frank

 

[Gil Tokerson]

Well, I guess these guys are a little more sensitive than most. Seemingly over night all 3 have hermed on me. What stress caused it could be the root of them turning tri/quad. The only thing I can even think of would be my nutes being too strong? They've worked fine for the other strains I've grown.
So I'm super bummed right about now. I've got everything from a few bananas to full on balls. I'm guessing there's nothing I can do to salvage them?
So my next question: would it be worth giving it another go with the cuttings, and going real easy on the nutes? Or will they herm no matter what?
And then there's the male....
I really want to use him, but I'm kind of scared he might pass a herm trait?
It's not the end of the world, they're just flowers! But I am bummed.
I'll take any advice you guys have for me.
Thanks
-gil

 

[Gil Tokerson]

Last grow-same exact conditions:

 

[Gil Tokerson]

Just to be clear: I take full responsibility for the herms. I don't what I did, but I'm a newb so it could be anything.
I'm sure these same seeds in more capable hands would have been fine.
-gil

 

[SourDank]

Last grow-same exact conditions:
[URL=https://www.icmag.com/ic/picture.php?albumid=49357&pictureid=1159722]View Image[/url] [URL=https://www.icmag.com/ic/picture.php?albumid=49357&pictureid=1157405]View Image[/url] [URL=https://www.icmag.com/ic/picture.php?albumid=49357&pictureid=1151653]View Image[/url]

These look fantastic brother, can't go wrong with a nice blueberry mash up

 

[dank.frank]

Hey Gil - I know that when pushed hard or flowered to long, or excessively root bound - the Digi mom DOES herm. This isn't because she is a bad plant, but more so she is very sensitive. One of the main reasons the Digi was kept private for so long was because of this. Digi, is a very thai dominant, rather unworked clone - it is a VERY early blueberry plant - ie much less refined for commercial gardening purposes - however, that is also what makes her so special, is that she is NOT watered down at all. She retains all of the glorious traits that made blueberry famous in the first place. When she is grown by those that know her, there is never a nanner to be seen...never.

The Bx1 line - had some females that would herm when flowered to long - but the male was rock solid and never displayed ANY intersex issues.

I have seen plants within the Carolina Blue x Digi Bx1 (another pure blueberry cross) grow perfectly fine and then when pushed for higher yields, throw out late flowering nanners....but not full on balls. I know when I released the CB x DB to public, I did warn against the notion of F2'ing that particular line, as the F1 was rather stable but I had zero clue as to what would happen when digging deeper (unlocking all parental possibilities) into an unrefined thai dominant plant like Digi.

When I ran the White x Digi Bx1 - there were no nanners on those plants - and I haven't had problems on several other various outcrosses. But again, these are the F1 lines...nothing further beyond.

In general, it can be sensitive, but more so when dealing with blueberry type line breeding. However, in the F2 spectrum, you have to expect some sort of nuances to surface...that is the nature of unlocking blueberry combined to early 80's thai. I still know without question the tri/quad bit is coming from the old DP lines - and not specifically the Digi side of the equation...but the hermies like that could be something latent coming to surface from the old thai Digi.

I wouldn't disregard the plants in any manner at all - rather I would truly consider the notion that we have been saying something environmental was going on - and for them to all suddenly over night start throwing nanners / balls - is another anomaly and really in my mind confirms that notion...and honestly, I would try running them again or pick one and run it again and see if you can't produce a different type of response from the plants.

They looked perfectly healthy - without question - no tip burn or anything to suggest they were being pushed to hard - so, I really hate to say grower error - I think that is a cop out used far too often in the cannabis industry. My only motivation for saying try it again, is I want you to get an opportunity to sample what I KNOW is excellent cannabis.

I've not grown these BlueDigiBerry F2's personally, but I've spent years working within the blue gene pools because they are so medically effective for me...I personally find them to be the hardest, most finicky, most difficult genetic lines to grow - because of things like this.

Not sure what happened with John_Deere - but I don't think he had the sort of issues in his that you did with yours - so, it again, makes wonder what the differences are to cause such a varied outcome.

I'm bummed for you - I was really enjoying the show!



dank.Frank

 

[Gil Tokerson]

Thanks for taking the time DF. And I also hope JD shows his finished flowers. I'd like to see how they turned out.

I think the one main difference in my grow, and pretty much anyone else that I've seen grow anything related to these seeds, is that I use hydro, and most of you use organic soil. (Ridiculous run-on sentence!)
I think the organic soil buffers and slows the nutes down, in a much less stressful way for the plants...And This is where you guys say "duh! Why do you think we all use organics!?"
Believe it or not,I use hydro because for me easier, and takes a lot of the guess work out. And the growth rate is considerably faster for me. I just don't have much extra time for my hobby. When I used soil, or soil like mixtures,I would always end up going a day or two late on a watering, then spend a week recovering. I keep my hydro method super simple, and idiot proof. It also requires very little day to day maintenance, allowing me to skip a few days when I need to.
The ease of my setup has also caused me to get a little lazy with maintenance at times. With the more refined strains I've grown so far, this hasn't been a problem. Obviously, these are a little more sensitive.
So my potential pitfalls were:
-let my rez get too low between topoffs, causing ppm and ph to rise and fall too rapidly
-went to long between my last rez change, letting the solution get pretty weak, then changing rez out with full strength nutes
-perhaps the nutes were just too strong regardless of these other mistakes?

While these things might sound pretty bad, I've never had any problems from them on previous grows, so I got a little too comfortable.

I'm definitely going to give all three of them a second chance. It was VGs grows and especially his blueberry that really made me want to start growing on the first place. Years later I actually have seeds from the other side of the planet directly from him and his blueberry! This is a crazy world we live in. Despite all the bullshit in the world we really are lucky to be able to exchange and discuss these beautiful genetics!

It'll be a least a couple of weeks before my cuttings ready to go in the buckets. I'm guessing just trying to pluck the balls, and hope no more pop up would be a little too optimistic? They're just so pretty and unique. I can't bring myself to just hack then down! But I don't want a bunch of stressed pollen floating around and knocking up my second room (different strains). At what point should I call it a loss? I've never flowered out a male, so I don't really know when they start releasing pollen?

Thanks again for all your guidance DF. And if really love to hear everyone else's thoughts as well. Especially you VG. I know your BB mom doesn't herm, but I've heard you mention reading about other dp BB herm problems. We'll just see what they do for next couple of weeks unless you guys tell me otherwise.
-gil

 

[dank.frank]

Gil - I like you even more now - lol. Your spirit and understanding of exactly how blessed we are to be apart of a community like ICmag - really hits home for me - and is the PRIMARY reason I do what I do, since I no longer grow for medical patients - ICmag has become that outlet to help others. (there, my run on is worse. )

But, before I type another essay, I'll wait for VG to chime in - this is after all his thread! hahaha

And I won't even go on the organic tangent - that's like baiting a wolf! I'd end up typing pages...but yes, there is a reason that we (VG and myself) are such adamant proponents of organic methods. It makes all the difference in the world when it comes to genetic expressions.

Given the the Digi Bx1 was grown, sorted, kept in organic soil, water only - and I know that VG keeps his blueberry in organic soil - you have a truly organic production process that went into these seeds - and the parent lines were maintained this way for YEARS....

So maybe it is your evil hdyro chemical sludge that caused all this - ROFL - I'm just messing with you - hahahahaha. I honestly didn't realize or catch that they were in hydro until your last post...

Either way - VG - where you at brother? Drop us some knowledge!!!



dank.Frank

 

[VerdantGreen]

hey guys, been out of the country for a few days, i'll be back and take a look at this after work.

VG

 

[VerdantGreen]

hey Gil, sorry to hear about your herm problems. you should not blame yourself too much... frank has given you some good explanations already and the blueberry strain is well known, infamous even, for sensitivity and intersex traits.
i was pleased that none of the F1s i grew threw any nanners, and just as pleased that JD took his grow to completion without any problems either... early days but i think that indicates that the BDB isnt too predisposed towards these problems, but there will always be a danger of this with these genetics. the fact that you had a good number of tri/quad tendencies and then all your plants threw nanners should point towards something environmental that the plants didnt like. i have had tri and quad plants before myself (mostly deep chunk) but they were tri 'from birth' rather than turning tri during growth.
i think it would be worth growing the clones again and going steady on the nutes (Bb is notoriously nute sensitive and prefers them quite weak ime) try and keep temps etc steady.
the search for a good blueberry repesentation is more of a challenge than most strains... but with luck the rewards are worth the effort.

hopefully we will get a smoke report from JD and oldbootz will give us some more pics as his plants go to flower, and we will have more grows to compare with.

i am itching to do a run with the F2's myself when i get space

VG

 

[VerdantGreen]

P.S the pics of your last grow look great Gil, but i would say the burnt leaf tips possibly indicate a little nute burn and this wont help with the blue lines.

 

[dank.frank]

VG - I sent someone else dropping me a PM about blueberry your direction....heads up!!



dank.Frank

 

[Mikenite69]

I have found the best way to run blue lines is organic nutrients. I just think the salt chemical nutrients are to harsh on them.

Just my 2 cents on blue lines my Dutch p I fed some sensi a&b and after one feeding it showed a little tip burn and I only used 6ml of both a&b so pretty much half strength.

I also remember when I ran my Dj shorts blueberry I only used Guano's from start to finish with no problems. With my current blue lines I am running I'll be using just budda grow and budda bloom from start to finish.

 

[Gil Tokerson]

I've got nothing ready to go in my room yet, so I'm just letting them do their thing until I've got clones ready. I went through and plucked most of the male flowers I could find. Not sure if this will make a difference, but trying to minimize the amount of potential pollen. And even though it's highly unlikely, I'm crossing my fingers that no more will pop up. If nothing else, it'll give us a few more weeks into flowering to see the expressions from these girls.
So.....

#1(left) - #3(right)


#2


#3

 

[dank.frank]

Man, I still REALLY like the looks of plant #3....

Is #1 the most heavily double serrated of the group? Can't really tell from the pictures, but it appears to be...

Props for seeing the grow through, in spite of the challenge at hand.

I know I've smoked seed weed before I was growing my own...so I SUPPOSE in reality, a few seeds don't really prevent you from having something to puff on, albeit, not the ideal scenario...something is always better than nothing, though! Still might make you some great hash...another though...



dank.Frank

 

[Gil Tokerson]

#2 probably has the most double serrations, but#1 also has them. #3 really doesn't. #3 also has a different quality to the leaves. Kind of finer, and more velvety. The quad male had the most double serrations.
-gil

 

[Gil Tokerson]

Male cuttings

 

[Gil Tokerson]

Male leaf


Leaves in order: #1, #2, #3


#1 she male

 

[Gil Tokerson]

#3 is starting to frost up already.
#2 has the best and strongest smell so far.
#1 doesn't have much smell going on.

 

[Critter]

#2 Looks like a winner! Great job on these man and +K for seeing through the snaggs.