First Timer: 12 Light Coco Multi-feed

[papaduc]

Look, Dan, I'm not trying to pick holes in anything you're saying, and I don't think anyone else is either. I'm just giving my opinion.

But thats what i'm trying to get at . all coco is not buffered right off the bat & not all nutrients are suitable to just straight feed to coco

If coco isn't buffered properly, then it's a processing issue. It's not about coco as a medium, do you know what I mean?

Yes, you should advise people to understand their coco, find a good supplier, make sure to test it to see if it is correctly buffered etc. But I think the issues regarding buffering and pre-charging etc, are put forward more as a prerequisite of growing in coco in general, rather than something you only have to do with an improperly prepared batch.

all coco is not ready to use right out of the bag or from expanded brick . & thats why alot of people / newbies to coco have alot to learn about it . i knew nothing about coco or the cations when i started with it & didn't know which coco was good to use right away or which brand had to be flushed & prepped .
this is all i'm saying dude . your acting like anybody can just pick up a bag of coco throw some plants in it & feed away with little or no problems without knowing those aspects of it ..... & thats just not true .

Again, it's more a case of advising people to find a good supplier of coco, than it is educating them in the ways of buffering and flushing the medium - something they should not be doing in the first place if they are new to coco and, even more so, new to growing.

Once you've got good coco and good feed, anyone can just pick it up, throw some plants in it, and then feed away.

 

[RetroGrow]

Canna, bagged coco FTW!
No preparation necessary.
Foolproof.

 

[dansbuds]

I swear to god i speak a different language !!! retro .... for the last god damn time .... i never said anything about the 2 freakin products you mentioned !!!!
I said ... again .... when adding things to your feeding regiment ( doesn't fukin matter what ! ) its NOT a good idea to add more than 1 per plant life cycle untill you know how it reacts with said feeding regiment !
damn your thick headed !!!

 

[dansbuds]

OVO .... again ... i'm out of here . all i'm trying to do is give you a little advice about what to watch out for in coco . & i'm getting shit every time i turn around . i've had enough .
obviously i must be fukin clueless & don't know what i'm talking about .

 

[RB26]

Lol, I turn around for one minute and Dans causing problems again….



Just kidding, ya'll need to smoke a little personal and chillax. I completely understand what everyone is saying.

Dan, you bring up the point of confounding variables for troubleshooting - point well taken. I wouldn't throw a bunch of stuff together in hopes of it working out. Ideally I would change one variable at a time and see the results. I don't ALWAYS have time to do such experiments though, so likely the 4x8' tent will have two tests going on, rather than a bunch.

In the main room, I am sticking to what I know. That is, until something in the tester tent outperforms it

 

[RB26]

Just placed an order from MB Ferts for a couple more tester products. One product I'm especially excited about is their Vitamin Booster which is a cocktail of Rhizotonic, B-52, Superthrive, Canna Boost, and Snow Storm Ultra. Super cheap and free shipping... really excited to try it out.

 

[SeattleEA]

Here's some pictures.

This is on 1.0ec formulex

[URL=https://www.icmag.com/ic/picture.php?albumid=46124&pictureid=1177971&thumb=1]View Image[/URL]

This is her 8 days later

[URL=https://www.icmag.com/ic/picture.php?albumid=46124&pictureid=1177973&thumb=1]View Image[/URL]

This is 12 days later

[URL=https://www.icmag.com/ic/picture.php?albumid=46124&pictureid=1177970&thumb=1]View Image[/URL]

These kind of growth rates aren't a result of my knowledge of every element on the periodic table, or use of any booster or enzyme or beneficial microbes... know what I mean?

This is cannabis, and this is coco... it's a weed... in a porous airy medium... fed a a custom built nutrient with every mineral known to be involved in plant growth... naturally, it kills shit and grows like wildfire... I'm tryin to emphasise the simplicity of it, you know?

I'm a strong advocate of simplicity for the reasons posted above. That's the growth rate in plain coco and on formulex... there's nothing else added. If you get better results than that because of one stimulator or booster or thousand dollar nutrient regime etc, by all means go for it. But I'm looking round the internet and I'm not seeing it.

Every piece of evidence points towards the fact that once you get a good quality coco and feed good quality base nutes at the right amount, there's not much more you can do to boost the growth than that, and anything you do do to alter or try to boost that - except for environmental upgrades obviously - is more likely to have a negative than positive effect base only on the complication of your routine.

I look forward to these results now that you have taught me the proper way to approach coco.
Question about the first pic. How often do you feed when they are this young? Do you let the coco dry up a little between watering?

Thanks again for everything!

 

[RetroGrow]

for the last god damn time .... i never said anything about the 2 freakin products you mentioned !!!!

Ummmm.....actually you did. Post 182. Your quote:
" & add either bloomtastic or canna boost ..... not both on the same run ."
In the same post, you said:
"you go adding all kinds of shit in at once & things go haywire ...."
Haywire? Really? Except you have not tried these products together, & I have. I know they will not cause any kind of problems. I have used them in my coco regimen many times. They don't cause problems, they boost growth & trichome production. The man asked for suggestions. That was one of my suggestions. You jumped right on that with your fear mongering, saying, "Oh, no, you better not do that or everything could go "haywire". That's nonsense. If I hadn't used them together successfully, I would not have posted it. Yet you, who haven't tried them, are being critical while claiming that everyone is picking on you. No one was attacking you. You were the one who lost your cool and had a temper tantrum, started with the name calling, and then pulled your childish disappearing act. Get a grip, dude. It was just a suggestion to a grown man who is capable of making his own mind up.
And, by the way, coco is simple. Don't try to make it out as something mysterious. It doesn't get much simpler. Buy some Canna coco, pour in pot. Add seed, seedling, or clone. Start with Rhizotonic or equivalent, and start feeding base nutes lightly after second set of leaves. Simple as can be. Keep PH @ 5.8 give or take a little, and everything will be fine. The addition of Boost and Bloombastic is optional, and only if you are interested in increased yield (Boost) and trichome production (Bloombastic).
If you are not interested in increased yield & trichomes, then don't use them, but do not imply that they are somehow dangerous, because that is simply not true.
Experience is the greatest teacher, and that has been my experience with these products.

 

[papaduc]

Only one thing I'd add to that retro: Start feeding seedlings straight away, especially if you're pushing them hard with close quarters fluoro 24/7.

Question about the first pic. How often do you feed when they are this young? Do you let the coco dry up a little between watering?

Thanks again for everything!

No problem man.

Just take a common sense approach really. Just make sure not to let them dry out completely, obviously, as that'll cause root damage. But no need to wet them constantly either if they're still nice and moist. Take care fella

 

[RetroGrow]

I do not start seedlings under flouros. They get full on, 1000 Watt Metal Halide. It's an urban myth that you must start seedlings under flouros. In nature they get full sun. Seedlings started under metal halide will not stretch, and will develop thicker stems and shorter internodes. Also, I never feed seedlings at the start, except what's in the seed starter mix. It's unnecessary. That's what the cotyledon is for. They don't need to be fed right away, but I give them rhizotonic, and also, I start seedlings in either Foxfarms, or Miracle Grow Seed Starter Mix. These products are the best things I have used for starting seeds. They have very mild nutrients, but more importantly, they have Mycorrhiza, which inoculate the plants as soon as they pop. The word "Mycorrhiza" is given to a mutualistic association between a fungus (Myco) and the roots (rhiza) of the plants. This association is symbiotic because the relationship is advantageous for both organisms. The macrosymbiont (the plant) gains increased exploration of the soil (rhizo sphere) with the intrincate net of hyphae that increases the uptake of water and nutrients from the soil interphase. The microsymbiont (the fungus) uses the carbon provided by the plant for its physiological functions, growth and development. Seed starter mix is the bomb. Start my seedlings in clear cups of it. When cups are full of roots, I transplant. It is mostly sphagnum peat moss, and transplants perfectly to coco in Hempy buckets. Haven't found anything to beat it. Then I add bennies (Great White) throughout the grow.

 

[papaduc]

I start seedlings in either Foxfarms, or Miracle Grow Seed Starter Mix.

That's why you're not needing to feed then.
You're doing what I used to do - start them off in starter mix and just water.

In plain inert coco I would recommend you feed from the day they pop their shells for the best growth. The cotyledon won't provide anything for them in the way of real sustenance in plain coco. Starter mixes aren't coco, so shouldn't be treated the same, I agree.

With regards to the fluoros, you're right that they don't have to be started under them, but they're fantastic for getting them going and just as good as 1000 or 10000 watts of light.

Up until the plant has enough leaf matter to process high intensity light, there is no advantage gained from using 1000W of light vs 125. There's a point where the baton must be passed from the fluoro to the HID, and I think that point is in that second picture I posted. Then they're really ready to make use of the extra light and it's then when the extra penetration of the HID keeps them thick and strong.

With regards to mycos, personally I don't believe you see that much if any benefit from using them in a coco mix fed with chemicals. I've used them and not used them, and I've also read many studies regarding which species benefit from them and how. It's mainly when processing otherwise immobile elements like phosphorus in depleted soils that field crops really benefit from them.

In an indoor environment fed daily with chemical nutrients? I don't know. I'm skeptical to say the least. I wouldn't advise anyone not to use them, just that they're probably another gimmick when applied to a chemically fed garden. I'd be interested to see a side by side though tbh.

 

[RB26]

Lots of good info shaping up in this thread, thanks everyone.

I too am somewhat skeptic of the Mykos additives. I have always used Great White, but it is so damn expensive I switched to Orca the other day to see if there is a difference. I also picked up some Canna Start, and just mixed a new barrel with it. I'm applying it to my entire main veg because I would like to find a 1-part to use the entire veg cycle. So far I like the Start, but you have to use SO much of it that I don't think I'll buy it again. I have to use 20ml/g just to reach 1.0 EC. 30ml/g if I want to reach 1.3 EC. Practically went through an entire 5L bottle in just a few days with feeding the main room and veg…

Does anyone have any other suggestions for a 1-part veg nutrient? So far I've tried V&B and Canna Start. I might try the 2-part system from MB Ferts next. I ordered a few things from them the other day and I am REALLY looking forward to trying their Vita-Boost cocktail.

 

[noyd666]

flairform, green dream I part grow nutrient 5lt 43.00 in oz if you can get it. 4 to 6m a litre.1.4 ec.

 

[papaduc]

I wouldn't use something like cannastart on a veg patch the size of yours. It's just for seedlings and young plants and it's based around the belief that in the baby stages they need more micro nutrients than macro. Tbh I have never tested the theory to prove otherwise, but I'd imagine if it's like the rest of the industry, it's a load of bollocks and you could just as well use any base veg feed at 1.0ec.

Have you tried Floranova grow? Apparently it's very concentrated for a liquid feed. Just 5ml per gallon brings up the ec to 1.4 apparently, so very strong for a bottled nute. Dry nutes will go further tbh. It's just a case of finding a good quality one.

 

[LyryC]

fuck me i got 15 pages to back track

sup ic ovo - didn't seen your first thread man! idk how missed this!

 

[RB26]

flairform, green dream I part grow nutrient 5lt 43.00 in oz if you can get it. 4 to 6m a litre.1.4 ec.

That sounds great, do you use this personally? Care to share your thoughts?

I wouldn't use something like cannastart on a veg patch the size of yours. It's just for seedlings and young plants and it's based around the belief that in the baby stages they need more micro nutrients than macro. Tbh I have never tested the theory to prove otherwise, but I'd imagine if it's like the rest of the industry, it's a load of bollocks and you could just as well use any base veg feed at 1.0ec.

Have you tried Floranova grow? Apparently it's very concentrated for a liquid feed. Just 5ml per gallon brings up the ec to 1.4 apparently, so very strong for a bottled nute. Dry nutes will go further tbh. It's just a case of finding a good quality one.

I have not tried Floranova, I'll take a look thanks. Ideally I'd have something that replaces the need to supplement CAMG and Silica Blast as well. Maybe I should stick to what I have though...

fuck me i got 15 pages to back track

sup ic ovo - didn't seen your first thread man! idk how missed this!

Most of it is just incoherent rambling Glad you found it though!

 

[RB26]

Almost forgot, pulled a plant out of the room to get some color correct shots. This plant is a pretty good representation of the size in their currently. Next week I'll begin cleaning up the bottoms and then I'll top them for the second time.

On a side note, I can't believe the roots on these things. I don't think I ever had roots come this far out the bottom of 3 gallon buckets, especially not after 25 days in the room.

 

[noyd666]

they are on site, made in west Australia I believe, good gear, flower nutes are same one shot 4 to 6 ml no fuken about, I only add silicone, a very small amount of epsom salts. run 1.2 to 1.4 in ready bagged coco no prep.

 

[RB26]

[URL=https://www.icmag.com/ic/picture.php?albumid=49972&pictureid=1175917&thumb=1]View Image[/URL] [URL=https://www.icmag.com/ic/picture.php?albumid=49972&pictureid=1179241&thumb=1]View Image[/URL] they are on site, made in west Australia I believe, good gear, flower nutes are same one shot 4 to 6 ml no fuken about, I only add silicone, a very small amount of epsom salts. run 1.2 to 1.4 in ready bagged coco no prep.

Very solid, I like the info on their website. You use their bloom as well? Your plants look great homie.

 

[RetroGrow]

Lots of good info shaping up in this thread, thanks everyone.

I too am somewhat skeptic of the Mykos additives. I have always used Great White, but it is so damn expensive I switched to Orca the other day to see if there is a difference. I also picked up some Canna Start, and just mixed a new barrel with it. I'm applying it to my entire main veg because I would like to find a 1-part to use the entire veg cycle. So far I like the Start, but you have to use SO much of it that I don't think I'll buy it again. I have to use 20ml/g just to reach 1.0 EC. 30ml/g if I want to reach 1.3 EC. Practically went through an entire 5L bottle in just a few days with feeding the main room and veg…

Does anyone have any other suggestions for a 1-part veg nutrient? So far I've tried V&B and Canna Start. I might try the 2-part system from MB Ferts next. I ordered a few things from them the other day and I am REALLY looking forward to trying their Vita-Boost cocktail.

Maxibloom FTW! One part, powder, cheap (you buy a whole tub of it) complete (no cal mag needed in most cases-that's with tap water). It's the K.I.S.S. method.
800 PPMs. Plants love it. Equivalent to GH 3 part or Flora Nova, but easier and cheaper.
https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=191645
The KISS thread is one of the best on this site, IMO.
I get better results with Maxibloom than with coco specific nutes.