Soil or Hydroponics?

[leaffan]

I'm interested in getting opinions if anyone is inclined.
Looking at a good size facility with a good budget under the MMPR, and there is an ongoing debate on soil vs hydro.
Have had experiences with both, seen advantages and disadvantages.
Which would you go with? Thanks in advance.

 

[Coconutz]

Bullshit

 

[dank.frank]

Fully amended organic soil - only adding water the full life of the plant.

When trying to increase yields, only by homemade accelerated compost teas, fermented plant extracts, or amendment / nutrient specific teas...

In my personal opinion - if you are growing for medical patients, a true organic soil should be the only method considered. After all, you growing for the health of another human being...not for profit and yield.



dank.Frank

 

[leaffan]

ok, thanks for the input nutz

 

[leaffan]

Thanks frank, I'm concerned about heavy metals with organic soil. Full batch testing is required. Do you have any information regarding heavy metals within organic soil?
True MMPR is for patients, but it is a business and profit is required to run a business.

 

[ortsa1]

this sub is so depressing these days

 

[dank.frank]

Thanks frank, I'm concerned about heavy metals with organic soil. Full batch testing is required. Do you have any information regarding heavy metals within organic soil?
True MMPR is for patients, but it is a business and profit is required to run a business.

I suppose you would have to test whatever choice of soil mix you use...and then your flowers after being grown in it tested...

Can you expand upon what mean by "heavy metals" and why you think this is an issue?

Personally, about the only thing I really try to pay attention to in regards to metals, is the amount of aluminum to silica - as most silicates contain high % of alum in them - but when you consider that over 90% of the earth's crust is composed of silicates, it can't really be THAT big of a concern...

I suppose the key thing is to diversify your soil with various amendments.

In reality, you can check out the organic soil forum and read MANY threads with MANY different suggestions on how to produce great cannabis.

The ROLS threads are FULL of information...the Organics for Beginners thread as well. I have a sticky in the Stank Bros forum about organic soil and another about my philosophy on growing and WHY organic soil is so vitally important...

But organics - as opposed to trying to make the ultimate mix (which I prefer) there is the more altruistic approach of using ONLY locally available products / plants / by products, etc - and that is really the heart of organics. Learning how to utilize the environment immediately surrounding you in a manner that allows you to bring about healthy, superior quality harvests...

But I'd still like you to elaborate on your concerns about heavy metals...so I am able to address that more directly.



dank.Frank

 

[Pangea]

Hey dank.frank,

Under the MMPR (Marihuana(cannabis)for Medical Purposes Regulations) a producer must test their product for heavy metal contamination in accordance to standards available in various pharmacopoeias for herbal medicines limitation testing, which I believe most utilize atomic absorption spectrometry to measure arsenic cadmium, copper, iron, lead, mercury, nickel and zinc levels.

Many consider cannabis to be a heavy accumulator and so if available in the soil, water, or air will most likely accumulate these heavy metals into its tissues.

Rock phosphates are a center of controversy with tobacco, a "hyper accumulator", and the effect of its accumulation and corresponding effects once smoked.



Hey leaffan,

I agree a lot with what dank.frank is recommending!

 

[med-man]

Thanks frank, I'm concerned about heavy metals with organic soil. Full batch testing is required. Do you have any information regarding heavy metals within organic soil?
True MMPR is for patients, but it is a business and profit is required to run a business.

hey leaf fan

revenue is required, not profit

profit is required for you to buy a Cadillac or 6 month vacations to warm places in winter time

med-man

 

[med-man]

to continue my last post

you will not be turning any profits if you want to experiment with your capital investment.

you should already have a working model in place or dont expect any profit or revenue

at peak i ran 1500kw of hydro, 20 workers. good luck hauling soil every crop

med-man

 

[Pangea]

So if profit and yield are second to quality and patient satisfaction why not go organic soil?

 

[med-man]

hydro will always beat soil i n quality, yield, labour, costs, set up and maintenance

the only war it doesnt win is forgiveness.

my guess if someone is only focussing on "large" spaces for "lots" of plants and a "good budget", it seems like patients are noit even a question in this formula. esp when profit is the only focus in the o.p. respectfully

med-man

 

[Pangea]

hydro will always beat soil i n quality, yield, labour, costs, set up and maintenance

the only war it doesnt win is forgiveness.

my guess if someone is only focussing on "large" spaces for "lots" of plants and a "good budget", it seems like patients are noit even a question in this formula. esp when profit is the only focus in the o.p. respectfully

med-man

So other than your personal opinion on quality, you've got no valid reason.

Do you honestly think folks want hydro over organic soil grown produce of anything?

 

[leaffan]

I asked for input and I got it, so thanks.
A couple things...

Pangea, thank you for posting on the heavy metal issue within the MMPR for Frank. I've read some of your posts and I assume you are headed into MMPR with an organic grow. I wish you all the best, and I can tell that you have the patients well being in mind.
I am very ignorant when it comes to organic growing. I appreciate all the posts that are here, and the efforts being made.

Frank, like I said I'm ignorant when it comes to organics. I am reading and learning. I'm not sure if I can post a link or not, so instead if you feel like checking out manicbotanix there is some information on heavy metals.
I want to participate in the MMPR to make money. I am not ashamed of this.
I have been in the MMAR as a DG, and have looked after 3 EOL patients (2 cancer and 1 MS). I presently have 2 patients with a very nasty disease CRPS that I am helping. My focus has been to find effective strains, and a consistent supply. I feel that I am compassionate when it comes to the needs of patients.
My son is an MMAR patient, he uses lyrica, ketamine, hydromorphone just recently switched to methadone, SCS scheduled for this winter. Marijuana is the drug that he says saved his life. He said he wouldn't be here without it. So I do know a thing or two about the needs of patients.

Med-man...I, we, have been "experimenting" for years. I am no grow expert, rather I would consider myself accomplished. After running hydroponics for a couple years we ran in to a very nasty battle with Pythium. It was hell. In desperation we went to soil. Sure we loss some yield. Over time we have got very good with yield and quality in soil.
Soil is a pain in the ass at times, like after harvest.
I am familiar with large set ups.
So thats why we debate, go back to hydroponics or stay with soil.

Thanks again for the input

 

[med-man]

So other than your personal opinion on quality, you've got no valid reason.

Do you honestly think folks want hydro over organic soil grown produce of anything?

opinion? no man, i am too pragmatic to bring subjective material into question

'you can never argue with energy, science and 3rd party verification.

its easy for anyone to see how in hydro, all the plants energy goes into grwoth and reprodcution.

science - test of thc and cbd are always higher to to the "energy" reason

3rd party - i was the only one to enter hydro in toronto. need i explain more what happened after jusding?

3rd party - hydro is higher quality and will get the highest doallr in any market where quality is held in highest esteem

fast - soil growers will always hate on things that they 1- envy 2. they wont ever understand till they try

enviroment - less material and running supplies = easier on the environment, and " greener grows"

opinions are a matter of hearsay, facts are verifiable truths. i choose verifiable truths

leafan, if you need any long term successful hydro consultation, you know where i am as for the post, i was replying to what was said and given as info. not discussing any rhetoric further then what you had to share on the matter, so now i understand better your situation...

med-man

 

[Easy7]

I'd pay more for organice living soil buds, than some bloated chem hydro beasters. Hydro can be expensive for start up and operating costs. PBP is probably the closest to organic for hydro, but it's not totally organice....and is very expensive!

Med-man has you covered. Good living soil almost never needs fed, it's always breaking down material for nutrients. As long as there are nutrients to be extracted by the micro life, than your good. I am also interested in fermented plant extracts. I've only heard so far about using stinging nettle, not sure what else to put in the juice.

Organics have the best natural oils

 

[Buds Bundy]

Are you allowed glass roofs or do the buildings have to have proper roof and only HID power for the light source? If glass roofs are not allowed then that is a total waste of energy if you're relaying on 100% HID especially when it come to ROI and with hydro rates going up. There's a reason why no greenhouse uses HID for 100% of their light source its not economical. I would personalty be more concerned about more free/cheap light source and pest management then organic vs hydro.

 

[Jellyfish]

I'd pay more for organice living soil buds, than some bloated chem hydro beasters. Hydro can be expensive for start up and operating costs.

Ah, but it can also be very cheap.

 

[med-man]

Ah, but it can also be very cheap.

med-man tables

med-man

 

[leaffan]

Thanks med-man.

Hey Buds, you can grow in a greenhouse with MMPR, Peace Natural plans on doing this. All other aspects of processing has to be in a building. The cost of electricity, especially in Ontario is a factor for sure. Indoor is what we know though. No experience with greenhouse grow. It's interesting how a small increase in efficiency can negate the electricity issue.
Pest management is a key issue. I think it might be the demise of some.