Terpenation at Terpene Station

[Gray Wolf]

Had a mishap today. Started the flood and wondered why after a minute the vent tube didn't get cold, turns out I forgot to close the ball valve. Took about an hour to recover and start over.
Anybody have any idea how full the 6" pot would be flooding for a minute?

Been there and done that more times than I can count. How much it flow, depends on the pressure in the tank and how firm you have packed the column, but as noted, you can find the frost line on the tank once you start recovering.

You can also weigh your recovery tank before and afterwards, to get a more accurate number, if you are doing it on purpose to experiment.

If I don't feel cold in 15 seconds, I start checking valve position.

 

[Gray Wolf]

How much can you guys process on a typical day?

Depends on what we are turning it into and which machine we are running.

A Mk IIIA holds about 150 grams with a 24" column, and can run a cycle every 15 minutes to an hour, depending on the end product.

A eight hour day will therefore process from 2.6 to 10.6 lbs.

A Mk V will process up to about 40 pounds in 8 hours.

 

[gunnaknow]

It's a tough job but someone's got to do it, GW.

 

[icdog]

I'm not worried about doing it again because now I know but I'm worried about liquid butane in the G5. Doesn't dry ice keep the butane so cold the G5 has to recover liquid butane?

 

[high life 45]

ic dog, pretty sure you never want liquid in your appion, or any recovery pump.. I THINK haskel makes the only pump for moving liquid, not sure on that though.

From what I understand, Dry ice keeps it cold enough that it just takes longer to become vapor.

My bro has been doing some 36 hour runs because he is outside and we have snow..

 

[A6 Grower]

36 Hours?!?!?! Thats nuts, i wouldnt think the appion could run that long basically dry and under vac, not like much is flowing through the machine at that rate.

Anything to worry about with purchasing a brand new propane tank and putting my recovery valve on it?? I can get a 50# tank for 40-50 compared to the 150+ everywhere wants for a recovery tank. I looked through the thread because i thought someone already mentioned it but i cant find anything about it.

My current tank im pretty sure has started to rust on the inside has anyone else noticed this?? I try and empty the tank ever month or two and let it air out for a day and let it sit under vacuum for a day before refilling.

Anyone found a better storage tank?? I like the ones bhogart come with, its a 316SS tank and i know that isnt going to rust for a long time.

 

[RegisPhilburn1]

Ya 36hrs is about 35 hrs longer than i would ever run mine continiously haha.

my first tank started to rust too. i wasnt running filter driers in the beginning so i think the moisture buildup caused the rust. now i run filter driers on every line to catch moisture and block possible rust particles should they exist in my new tank.

Not sure about the propane tank, should be fine as far as pressure rating and such, but im not sure about other stuff.. My local RSD has a bunch of brand new tanks an they just let me swap out my old one for the new ones free of charge.

Ya thats one thing i like about the bhogart. a Sanitary stainless recovery tank that would be easy to open and clean would be nice.

 

[high life 45]

haha well it got down to -10 where my bro was... He is also running multiple 4"x36" columns. Probably 10x the volume of alot of us are using with a 1.5"x24" I dont think anyone could get a run done on this size in under 3 hours without some decent heat in various places, but yeah a 36 hour run is a bit long for my blood.


How long till your tanks get rusty?

A6, Leaving them open for a day seems like your just letting in atmospheric humidity? isnt this why the filter driers have plastic seals on them? to keep ouf the RH....


Regis The bhogart recovery tanks I have seen were stainless but there were no sanitary fittings or clamps that allowed you to open it for cleaning. TBH some of them even had leaks, of the two I have seen in person, one had leaks. Another one, my friends friend had, also had a leak. (I mentioned it in the bhogart thread) Thats 2/3 that I know of that had leaks.....if you asked me Id say make one out of spools instead of buying one that may or may not be tested...

 

[Gray Wolf]

I'm not worried about doing it again because now I know but I'm worried about liquid butane in the G5. Doesn't dry ice keep the butane so cold the G5 has to recover liquid butane?

No, it only reclaims the vapors, and chilling with dry ice does slow down the evaporation rate under vacuum, but it still works.

With the collection pot in 210F water, a Mk III can compete a full three flood run in about 15 minutes, with no heat in about an hour, and with the butane storage tank in alcohol and dry ice, maybe an hour and a half.

Guessing on the last one, as I've never timed it and it is hard to tell exactly when you are done, because the vacuum gauge is practically worthless.

I've installed a thermocouple in the Mk IVA, to see if we can tell when the butane pool is gone by temperature rise, but currently we tell by where the frost line is on the outside of the collection tank and when the column defrosts.

If you do run ultra low temperatures, be sure to use hoses and seals that are compatible, and that are suitable at subzero temperatures.

 

[Gray Wolf]

ic dog, pretty sure you never want liquid in your appion, or any recovery pump.. I THINK haskel makes the only pump for moving liquid, not sure on that though.

From what I understand, Dry ice keeps it cold enough that it just takes longer to become vapor.

My bro has been doing some 36 hour runs because he is outside and we have snow..

Sucking liquid butane with oil dissolved in it, through an Appion, glazes over the seals and it will no longer pump to the former levels. Replacing the seals won't necessarily fix that problem, because the cylinder walls are glazed as well.

An inlet filter dryer offers a modicum of protection and is your best friend, but the real fix is to not flood your chamber so full that you suck liquid.

Besides soaking, that is another one of the reasons that I designed the Terpenator to run measured volume batches, instead of a steady flow. You never dump enough into the chamber, to get the level any closer than 6" from the pump intake.

 

[A6 Grower]

haha well it got down to -10 where my bro was... He is also running multiple 4"x36" columns. Probably 10x the volume of alot of us are using with a 1.5"x24" I don't think anyone could get a run done on this size in under 3 hours without some decent heat in various places, but yeah a 36 hour run is a bit long for my blood.


How long till your tanks get rusty?

A6, Leaving them open for a day seems like your just letting in atmospheric humidity? isn't this why the filter driers have plastic seals on them? to keep ouf the RH....


Regis The bhogart recovery tanks I have seen were stainless but there were no sanitary fittings or clamps that allowed you to open it for cleaning. TBH some of them even had leaks, of the two I have seen in person, one had leaks. Another one, my friends friend had, also had a leak. (I mentioned it in the bhogart thread) That's 2/3 that I know of that had leaks.....if you asked me Id say make one out of spools instead of buying one that may or may not be tested...

Oh ok that big of a column in this temp/season makes sense now.

My tank took probably 6 months to rust, but i dont know for sure. I found some flakes in the reducer(luckily i pack it with filters) and then emptied and opened the tank to see the inside. Who knows when it started.

I was wondering about leaving the tank open, its inside in a room @~30% humidity so i don't think that's causing issues but it could. I leave it open for a day to let it dry out since i wash it out with soap and hot water. I also vacuum purge the tank for a day to make sure there's no humidity in it. Im sure the water & rust comes for the material over time.

What should i be using to reseal the valve on the tank?? I've just been using the PTFE yellow thread tape.

Bummer on the bhogart tank, they look so nice. Where do they leak? At the seals or the threads? My recovery tank leaked at the threads when i first got it, it looked like the locktight wasn't sealing right. The yellow thread tape worked great though.

I thought about trying to find something better to store my butane in, specifically a 316SS. I have a chest freezer i like to keep my tank in and have noticed i could probably keep my butane in a tupperware since theres no pressure lol.

I was thinking maybe a brew tank or something from glacier tank could be fabricated into a butane storage tank? I dont think we really need a 400psi tank, specially since most of us run with cold temp and never seen pressure higher the 20-30 psi. For long time storage of more than 10#, id keep it in a regular lp5 or something but for running, id love a nice tank i could clean out sometimes and i knew was not going to rust.

 

[Kcar]

This is probably a question for GW. Is there any way to filter waxes out of the solvent stream?
Coffee filters seem to be getting some of it, (as evinced by the wax patty inside)
but obviously some is getting into the collection pot. Thus the need for winterization.
Is there any catalyst, filter or other way of catching this stuff?

 

[Kcar]

How about a chip of DI in between each layer of coffee filters?

 

[Gray Wolf]

The waxes are in solution, so would have to be precipitated first to filter.

 

[Kcar]

So, the waxes on the coffee filter are non-soluble waxes, and the ones
in solution are soluble? Also, am I right in thinking that these waxes are
coming from the outside of the material? And the amount of these waxes
is strain specific?

 

[vapor]

waxes/fats and amount are defiantly vary strain to strain.

 

[nakadashi]

Oh ok that big of a column in this temp/season makes sense now.

My tank took probably 6 months to rust, but i dont know for sure. I found some flakes in the reducer(luckily i pack it with filters) and then emptied and opened the tank to see the inside. Who knows when it started.

I was wondering about leaving the tank open, its inside in a room @~30% humidity so i don't think that's causing issues but it could. I leave it open for a day to let it dry out since i wash it out with soap and hot water. I also vacuum purge the tank for a day to make sure there's no humidity in it. Im sure the water & rust comes for the material over time.

What should i be using to reseal the valve on the tank?? I've just been using the PTFE yellow thread tape.

Bummer on the bhogart tank, they look so nice. Where do they leak? At the seals or the threads? My recovery tank leaked at the threads when i first got it, it looked like the locktight wasn't sealing right. The yellow thread tape worked great though.

I thought about trying to find something better to store my butane in, specifically a 316SS. I have a chest freezer i like to keep my tank in and have noticed i could probably keep my butane in a tupperware since theres no pressure lol.

I was thinking maybe a brew tank or something from glacier tank could be fabricated into a butane storage tank? I dont think we really need a 400psi tank, specially since most of us run with cold temp and never seen pressure higher the 20-30 psi. For long time storage of more than 10#, id keep it in a regular lp5 or something but for running, id love a nice tank i could clean out sometimes and i knew was not going to rust.

I got my 50# 400psi tank for $110 shipped. Pretty dang worth it IMO. Next time I would buy a 30# tank though so that I can use less dry ice to chill the tank...

 

[nakadashi]

How about a chip of DI in between each layer of coffee filters?

Har har har, maybe a specialized DIY hydrophobic affinity column.

 

[Gray Wolf]

So, the waxes on the coffee filter are non-soluble waxes, and the ones
in solution are soluble? Also, am I right in thinking that these waxes are
coming from the outside of the material? And the amount of these waxes
is strain specific?

The waxes on the coffee filter are waxes that have fallen out of solution. They are all soluble, but the solubility of non polar waxes in polar ethanol drops off sharply as the temperature falls.

There are a couple of plant waxes present. The ones coating the trichomes and the ones coating the leaves.

Strain affects the amounts of the different waxes, as does whether it was grown outside in the elements, or indoors more or less protected.

 

[Kcar]

So a plant with PM would likely produce more waxes trying to protect itself?
Do you think indicas produce more waxes than sativas?
All is becoming clearer...