sick plants dont konw to do!

[leo92]

hi everybody , i m desperate, it is a year i try to grow indoor but i had always the same problem in 4 differente cycle. i tried different kind of substrate, acid, basic, sand, high % of zeolite and dolomite( to keep ph at 7. I also tried to use distilled water, mixed with tap water(10%) and ph 6 / 6.5 using plagron citric acid ( i m not using now cos was friend's stuff)
The problem is that oldest leavs start to clorosis and necrosis on the tips! it usually appear after 2/3 weeks(also using clones) and it start always after 2-3 day after watering. Watering also makes necrosis go faster.
however all the sick plants that i moved outdoor after 3 weeks get completely recovered ( regardless of the soil and treatment)
Before plants get sick it is notable on the top of the soli white spot (should be fungi)


How long has this problem been going on? 2-3 weeks
What STRAIN are you growing? super skunk auto(white label)/ og kush (humboldt)
What was the establishing technique? (seed or clone?) seed
What is the age of your plants?1 months(skunk) - 3 weeks(og) (from seed)
How long have they been in the soil mixture they are in now? all the time
Were they in the same mixture when they were seedlings/smaller plant? If not, what mixture were they in before?
How Tall are the plants? one skunk 15 cm and the other 2 5cm. the og is 8cm
What PHASE (seedling, vegetative or flower) are the plants in? vegetative
What Technique are you using? (SOG, SCROG etc) not yet, it will be scrog)
What size pots are you using? (Include how many subjects to pot)0.2 gallons
What substrate/medium are you using? What brand of soil mixture are you using?(percentage of perlite, vermiculite...etc?) plagron royality mix
What brand Nutrient's are you using? not yet
How much of each nutrient are you using with how much water? *Knowing the brand is very helpful*
How often are you feeding?
If flowering, when did you switch over to using Bloom nutrients?
What order are you mixing your nutrients? (example: veg nutes 1st, bloom 2nd ect)
What is the TDS/EC/PPM of your nutrients used?
What is the pH of the "RUN-OFF"?
How often are you testing pH/ppm/EC/TDS?
What method of pH test was administered? Using Strips? pH pen?
How often are you watering? 4 time the skunk and 3 the og
When was your last feeding and how often are you feeding?
What size bulb are you using? 45x3watt led 6 color bands
How old is your bulbs? used 3 months
What is the distance to the canopy?
What is your RH Factor? (Relative Humidity) 40-45
What is the canopy temperature?
What is the Day/Night Temp? (Include fluctuation range)86 day 68 night
What is the current Air Flow? (cfm etc.) 12 cm pc fun funninf every 15 minutes
Tell us about your ventilation, intake exhaust and when its running and not running ?
Is the fan blowing directly at plants? yes
Is the grow substrate constantly wet or moist? it will take a week or a bit more to get dry
Is your water HARD or SOFT? hard
What water are you using? Reverse Osmosis (RO)? Tap? Bottled? Well water? Distilled? Mineral Water? tap
If using tap water, what is the ppm/EC/TDS of the water right out of the tap?(Only if you have a tds pen)
If using RO,Distilled,mineral water, what is the ppm/EC/TDS without any additives?(Only if you have a tds pen)
Are you using water from a water softener?no
Has plant been recently pruned, cloned or pinched? no
Have any pest chemicals been used? If so what and when? no
Are plant's infected with pest's? did'nt seen anythings!

 

[Snype]

Sounds like the ph of your soil is off. Check your run off pH. It should be close to 6.4.

 

[leo92]

ok later i m gonna buy the ph test, however in the last cycle when i cheked it was just a bit basc than the water i watered with: water in 6 / 6.5 run off 6.5/7. (the sensiblity of the test was 0.5)

 

[papaduc]

What brand Nutrient's are you using? not yet

Sounds like a hungry plant if you're only in a 1L pot and you have fed them plain water for 3 weeks.

In a good quality compost you won't need to worry about the ph, so forget that until you've got the hang of basic feeding.

Buy a good quality veg nutrient and start feeding it.

 

[justanotherbozo]

...did it occur to you that you might get more responses, and that those responses might be more helpful, if you posted up a few pics?

...you wouldn't expect a doctor to diagnose you based solely on your description of your symptoms, wouldn't you want him to actually SEE you?

...a picture is worth a 1000000 words bro.

peace, bozo

 

[leo92]

unfortunately today was sunday and all the shops were close so i didn't get the ph tester.


This is the og, 5 days ago she was the same size but the leavs were perfect!



those are the skunk.

https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=254083 here is my first cycle with the same problem!

 

[justanotherbozo]

...yeah man, those pics help a lot and it's obvious you have some serious issues going on, ph being a major part of your problem, 7 is not a good number for mj. ...in soil you should probably be aiming for 6.2 - 6.5 and in hydro i believe 5.8 is optimal.

...considering your new at this indoor growing stuff have you considered trying something completely different?

...i know you are asking for a way to solve this recurring problem and i believe your best bet is to try something demonstrably reliable so what i'm suggesting is that you simplify your operation by switching to coco hempy buckets KISS style and if you do, i promise you your recurring problem will disappear.

...do yourself a favor and read through these two threads, i know they are long but believe me, that is because they contain MUCH useful information.

https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=98419The Official Hempy Bucket Thread

https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=191645The K.I.S.S. Method

...if you do this and then apply what you learn your troubles will be over going forward, ...just remember that every grow is practice for the next one and so no matter what happens it won't be a loss if you learn something.

...i've been growing indoors for almost 8 years now and switching to coco hempy buckets was the single greatest improvement to my operation, EVER, ...i now grow twice as much with half the effort.

peace, bozo

 

[papaduc]

The only way to learn something is to get to grips with the basics of feeding a plant. Whether you grow in coco or compost, you will need to understand the basic signs of hunger. That is not a Ph problem, it's a hungry plant which looks like it hasn't been getting watered properly.

There's no need for a change of system and I'd never advise anyone to follow a guide which doesn't promote learning the basics of growing. Yes, people can get by from start to finish by following guides like the 6/9/kis etc, but give them a basic bottle of plant food and they would be back to square one.

The best way to keep it simple is to buy plant food and feed it in the right amounts.

Feeding cannabis is a simple case of buying a complete base veg feed and knowing the signs of hunger and toxicity. Without that underpinning knowledge, people will always hit problems sooner or later.

 

[intotheunknown]

~This is directly from the website of the soil brand youre using...

The blend of blends! A heavily fertilised, yet light and well aerated, soil mix. Royalty Mix contains enough nutrition for the entire growth cycle. Transplant into Royalty Mix after 2-3 weeks and only add water when feeding.

A blend of the finest peats, organic fertilisers, worm castings and perlite. Not suitable for seeds or cuttings.

Available as a 50L bag.


#1- Not suitable for clones or seeds. Meaning most likely too hot for them at that stage...

#2- youre watering every week? and how dry exactly is this mix getting between waterings?

PH is not your problem. If this "organic soil mix" is properly amended and well balanced, I see your problem in the watering area. And probably should not have started seeds in it. PH is not an issue in a soil mix like this. PH is buffered by the proper amendments.

Dont let this soil mix completely dry out. Moist soil is ideal for microbial activity/productivity. And thats what youre wanting here. A "water only mix" should have enough nutrients in it to supply throughout, perhaps a mid-flower tea may be needed.
Not too wet, and not too dry. Try to maintain the moisture level in between.

It would also be nice to know exactly what "organic fertilizers" are in this mix. If this is the route you want to take with growing, I suggest building your own soil mix.

ALSO* make sure when watering this mix, that your water is chlorine free. Bubble or let your tap water sit out for at least 24 hrs. Chlorine kills microbes.

Another question I have is... How much dolomite lime have you added?

Your temps look out of ideal range as well. 75-78*F daytime, and no more than around 10* drop during the night in my experienced opinion.

It is always difficult to pinpoint the exact problem in certain situations, but I hope this helps and sends you in the right direction.

~ITU

 

[SeattleEA]

Papaduc is a life saver

Papaduc is a life saver

Sounds like a hungry plant if you're only in a 1L pot and you have fed them plain water for 3 weeks.

In a good quality compost you won't need to worry about the ph, so forget that until you've got the hang of basic feeding.

Buy a good quality veg nutrient and start feeding it.

Hey bud! You have no idea how much you have helped me! Would it be ok to start seedlings at 1.0ec base feed? I tried to pm but I don't have enough posts. Thanks!

 

[SeattleEA]

Leo92, I'm sorry to jump into your thread to ask papaduc questions. I suggest you take his advise because it's solid.
That said, papaduc I should have been more specific. Would it be OK to start seedlings at 1.0ec Flora Grow 2-1-6. cheers!

 

[papaduc]

Would it be ok to start seedlings at 1.0ec base feed?

Would it be OK to start seedlings at 1.0ec Flora Grow 2-1-6. cheers!

If you're in coco then yes, start on 1.0ec of starter feed, or grow feed, but I wouldn't recommend using the flora grow on it's own. It's part of a 3 part system, and one which is no better than any one-part I've ever used.

Buy a good 1-bottle starter or veg feed like Cannastart or CNS17 and use that. Use plain water to germinate and once they've popped their shells, feed at 1.0ec and keep it at that til they tell you they're hungry. You might find you'll go through the entire veg stage on 1.0ec.

Start a thread in the coco section if you want and I'll try and help you along. Have we spoke before btw?

 

[papaduc]

With regards to the OP. I don't think it's a hot compost problem, but ITU is right; you don't have to worry about ph in a properly buffered compost.

Reason I don't think it's hot compost is this:

This is the og, 5 days ago she was the same size but the leavs were perfect!

If it was hot compost, it couldn't spend 3 weeks in the mix, and have perfect leaves up until 5 days ago.

What could be happening is water running around a dry root-ball, rather than penetrating it. It's a beginner mistake to see water coming out of the bottom of pot and think it's been fully watered.

If you're sure that's not what's happening, then it's just a hungry plant that either needs re-potting or feeding.

I don't know anything about that mix either, except that if you buy a good compost, you don't need to amend it with anything to alter the buffer. You should definitely not be doing that.

 

[johnnybravo]

Ewc tea is your fix.

 

[leo92]

i cheked the ph, and i gave atami A + B both of them 0.3ml per liter. first i gave water whit ph 6.8 and the run off was 7.2 so for the other 3 plants i lowered the ph at 6.4and the run off was 6.8/6.9

 

[papaduc]

You're applying chemical principles to organic gardening. You need to go back to the drawing board on this one and decide what it is you want to do. You're making too many changes too quickly as well, which is another beginner mistake. In other words, when you see ill effect of one mistake, you're jumping in and trying to re-work the machine and creating more.

If you want to grow in compost, ask in the soil forum for the recommendation of a good quality trusted one. You'll be able to ask any time the people who use it, how long they go before having to feed etc.

Learn good watering technique. When I grew in compost I'd wet the surface of the plant and wait for it to absorb the water. Then I'd water slowly to thoroughly soak the rootball. It takes a while for most compost to become absorbent and if you water when they're dry, it'll run round the outside of the rootball and out of the bottom of the pot. Lift your pots to gauge the difference between a wet and dry one.

Compost has nutrition already in it which will last roughly 10 days give or take. Use water for about 10 days then, at about this time, keep an eye on your bottom leaves. When the very bottom leaf pales, it's time to pot up. The fresh compost will provide nutes for another 10 days or so.

When you're in your final pot and your lower leaf pales, it's time to feed.

Buy a 1-bottle organic base nutrient.
You can use chemical base ferts, but then you might as well switch to coco.
Use your feed at 1-2ml per liter to start. With most organic feeds that is a good amount. You'll see the new growth continue to develop. The lower leaves won't regain their colour, but that's not what you're looking for. If your plant is growing healthily, keep it on that feed. If you see the paling getting slightly worse, or the set of leaves above those which paled first, begin to pale as well, then you up the feed by another 1ml per liter.

They're the basics of growing in compost. They're what you need to get a handle on before anything else.

 

[intotheunknown]

Papaduc is right. youre trying to apply the wrong techniques to a completely different style of growing. Ditch the PH bug that was put into your head, and read my other post. Read papduc's as well. Then go to the organics for beginners thread and READ some more.

Id say start at square one, and understand organic gardening's basics. Then youll get a better understanding of what youre trying to accomplish here and be able to get further.

 

[SeattleEA]

If you're in coco then yes, start on 1.0ec of starter feed, or grow feed, but I wouldn't recommend using the flora grow on it's own. It's part of a 3 part system, and one which is no better than any one-part I've ever used.

Buy a good 1-bottle starter or veg feed like Cannastart or CNS17 and use that. Use plain water to germinate and once they've popped their shells, feed at 1.0ec and keep it at that til they tell you they're hungry. You might find you'll go through the entire veg stage on 1.0ec.

Start a thread in the coco section if you want and I'll try and help you along. Have we spoke before btw?

Hey buddy, sorry for the delay, I had some computer problems. I hope you get this.

We have never spoke. I was searching all the boards thru google trying to find a simple approach to this medium. The end of November I germinated 3 seedlings and put them in coco that I only ran distilled pH'd water thru. Because of misinformation online and being new at this I didn't pre charge it with nutrients. 8 days after the seed coats popped I gave them 1/2 of the rez's veg feed recipe (3ml micro/4.5ml bloom) and it burned the tips of the plants. My first grow was in soil so I thought about flushing the medium and checked online first and I read it was OK to flush with straight water. Big mistake. All 3 went to shit. (I didn't realize this stresses the plant out as it tries to put back into the coco what you just took out.. crazy!) At this point I am searching 12 hours a day non stop for some answers what to do. I couldn't find anything. There are a million posts about the subject but they are either incomplete, like a person made a post, a few decent suggestions were made, the poster says thanks I’ll try it, and the poster never updates to let people know what worked. I see everyone touting calmag as the silver bullet too. I see soil growers post logic that only applies to soil in coco advise threads. It's a breeding ground of bad information!

Any rate I came across a thread here where a guy had used calmag as a main nute and his one part veg nute as his supplement. Lol. He flushed his medium and his plants were dying. You were the only person to tell him that using 1.0ec of a 1 part veg feed at the seedling stage would fix his problems. I think he said thanks but no thanks to all your advise because he was die hard calmag+ fan. Then a week later he came back and thanked you for everything because it fixed his dying plants.

After I read that I went downstairs and mixed up 500ppm of Flora Grow and fed it to the dying seedlings and they all perked up. The next day I fed 1.0ec of micro, grow and bloom combined and the plant is growing amazing. Papa you recommended CNS17, I ordered it and it'll be here tomorrow. I will use it on my new seedlings. Your logic and approach is the best and I will ride off into the sunset a better grower because of it!

Thank you very much!

 

[papaduc]

It's posts like that which make it worthwhile. I appreciate that man and am glad I've helped you out. I'm trying not only to get as many people back to the right way - learning the basic hands on skills required to grow a simple weed - but to spread the message and pass that knowledge on themselves.

The aim is to get people to understand basic gardening, and away from the gimmicks of the hydro-cannabis industry. They can apply those skills to growing a tomato then if they want, and enjoy it without feeling confined to some rigid system.

When feel you've got control over a plant and, because you have basic knowledge of the NPK ratios and what they mean to the plant, you feel just as comfortable working with a tomato food as a canna-specific line, you feel like a gardener, and not a slave to the next nutrient company's special formula. That's the most important thing.

 

[SeattleEA]

It's posts like that which make it worthwhile. I appreciate that man and am glad I've helped you out. I'm trying not only to get as many people back to the right way - learning the basic hands on skills required to grow a simple weed - but to spread the message and pass that knowledge on themselves.

The aim is to get people to understand basic gardening, and away from the gimmicks of the hydro-cannabis industry. They can apply those skills to growing a tomato then if they want, and enjoy it without feeling confined to some rigid system.

When feel you've got control over a plant and, because you have basic knowledge of the NPK ratios and what they mean to the plant, you feel just as comfortable working with a tomato food as a canna-specific line, you feel like a gardener, and not a slave to the next nutrient company's special formula. That's the most important thing.

I'm not kidding you, I read the internet like it was my full time job looking for a simple approach to it. I did this for a whole month! It was pretty rough for the girls during that time as I continued to stress the hell out of them from stupid ideas I got from the message boards.

When you said all someone needs to grow successfully is a complete 1 part nutrient it turned the light on in my head and all the sudden I understood everything that was confusing the hell out of me! You are right, learn the plants, only add whats needed and let them do the rest. 1.0 ec base veg feed = Fool proof. Bump up a few ec's if lower leaves yellow, lower a few ec if vegetation looks too green. Now any stress or deficiencies can pretty much be nailed down to environmental. That's really easy to grasp. With this knowledge all I need is time and things will only get better. Later I will have to post pics of how you turned me in the right direction. Thanks again

Anyone know how what post count allows you to send pm's? I looked in the faq's but there was no answer. thanks!