Runoff EC keeps climbing....puzzled

[thewhitelotus]

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Im on the 5th week of flowering, and im feeding 3x a day for 3 minutes and i get a little runoff each time. The EC of my nutes goin in is 1.0-1.2.....runoff for the first day stays right around there, but after a day or two it starts drifting up to 1.4, 1.6, and the highest 1.8.

I realize measuring runoff isnt 100% accurate but what do ya think is causing my EC to rise....im thinking my medium might be drying out in between feeds? I cant imagine the 1.0 ive just fed them is too much for em, as theyve taken 1.2 this whole time

They look great, but just trying to figure out what is causing the EC to jump

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[Bubu_83]

happens to me the same as you, my ec is 1.2 and the runoff after a few days is 1.6-1.8.

Anyone know what's going on?

 

[farmdalefurr]

do you feel your plants look bad as a result of the higher Ec run off?

personally, I think they look great

if your not having problems, I wouldn't worry much about it

ive grown in coco for years and couldn't tell you the last time I checked runoff

 

[nonfiction]

what i heard was your plants arent using all the nutes youre giving them, and you're not flushing between feedings i guess so its accumulating the nutes, give it a flush, not just 3gal of regular water, try like 10g ph balanced and see what EC is then ;-)

 

[papaduc]

This is why you don't measure run off.

If you follow that advice above, and flush ten gallons of plain water through your pots, you would throw the medium off from what is obviously keeping your plants happy.

What are you feeding them and what's the NPK of those feeds?

 

[urbangroop]

Measuring run off? HAHAHAHA as long as your plants look good like yours OBVIOUSLY do! theres not point. Your gonna love those plants to death.

 

[Pragma]

Not enough runoff will result in more salts accumulating in the medium over time aka EC rise.
Simply give more runoff or give an extremely low EC watering with extra runoff every week or so to knock out the excess salts.

Slightly raised EC might not hurt the look of your plants and buds but the quality of the smoke will suffer imho.. Once you've grown low EC and tasted those extremely tasty/smooth buds you'll avoid higher ECs.. so you're on the right track bro

Gluck

 

[thewhitelotus]

thanks everyone. In the past whenever EC started climbing i would "rinse" each smartpot with about 3-4 gals of .4EC feed. This usually drops the EC down to the 1.0 or .8EC but recently after a few days it climbs back up.

I just find it awfully stange that they have been taking 1.2EC fine all through veg and early flower and now when im at the height of the flowering period, even 1.0 is giving me build up. (I never really exceed 1.2 at any point of the growing cycle)

The plants themselves look fine, but i feel continual salt buildup will lead to issues down the road.

 

[thewhitelotus]

This is why you don't measure run off.

If you follow that advice above, and flush ten gallons of plain water through your pots, you would throw the medium off from what is obviously keeping your plants happy.

What are you feeding them and what's the NPK of those feeds?

Im feeding the House & Garden line minus a few of their additives...algen clogs my drippers, and amino can clog stuff as well.

I dont ever go over 1.2 EC during the grow cycle.

 

[Snow Crash]

thanks everyone. In the past whenever EC started climbing i would "rinse" each smartpot with about 3-4 gals of .4EC feed. This usually drops the EC down to the 1.0 or .8EC but recently after a few days it climbs back up.

I just find it awfully stange that they have been taking 1.2EC fine all through veg and early flower and now when im at the height of the flowering period, even 1.0 is giving me build up. (I never really exceed 1.2 at any point of the growing cycle)

The plants themselves look fine, but i feel continual salt buildup will lead to issues down the road.

I think the issue you are experience has more to do with the ratio of elements in your solution rather than the total concentration of the solution.

As the plant matures, and typically after the stretch period is complete, the amount of Calcium a plant needs is reduced. Yet, in most cases we continue to run coco specific nutrient solutions that have a greater amount of calcium to fulfill the CEC needs of the media. After a few weeks of regular feeding the cation bank in the coco is fulfilled and the excessive amounts of Calcium just are not required. These factors collide as the availability of Calcium increases while the plant's need for the Calcium decreases.

In addition to the abundance of Calcium, Phosphorus is a tricky bitch in coco because of how ridiculously available it is. I find that P levels in coco can be 20% lower than in other hydroponic systems while still delivering enough of that element to the plant tissue. Excess Calcium can also precipitate with excess phosphrous, so this balance during the mid-late bloom period is important to understand and approach with intelligence.

What I think you can do here is decrease your use of Base nutrient, eliminate any Cal-Mag product, and possibly adjust your PK boost level (the difference of 4 ml versus 5 ml is 20%) to better hone in the P ratio. This may decrease your EC level, and I tend to rebuild my EC more with K+Mg+Su than N+Ca+P at that stage of growth.

But, having said all that... if it ain't broken then don't fix it. Trust your nutrient program, and your intuition, and take good notes. The plants might look fine today, but in a week the pattern of an increasing EC may display itself physically in the plant tissue. With good notes the next grow you can anticipate this shift in nutritional requirements for you strain to better dial them in. Just remember to not make knee-jerk reactions and apply more cure, or the wrong cure, than what is needed. Watching your levels and collecting as much good information as possible is the best way to improve your skills as a gardener from grow to grow.

 

[thewhitelotus]

Thanks Snow! Great information in there! Here is what im currently feeding....tuesday marks the end of week 5

H&B A/B 5ml/gallon
PH to 5.8
1ml/gal of drip clean
5.7ml/gal of top booster (use only week 5)
3.5/gal Bud XL

this brings my EC to right around 1....i dont use any calmag as my tap water is very good here and ive found i TYPICALLY dont need to supplement cal mag, but every once n a while ive had to toss in a little.

 

[papaduc]

You don't have to worry so much about individual elements when you've got a balanced feed.

What is the NPK of your base nutrient, and on a typical feed, what EC will you bring your water up to before adding anything else?

For example, go to 0.8ec with base feed, then to 1.2 with budxl... etc

 

[Pragma]

EC is climbing simply because it is almost unavoidable when you feed with every watering and give little run off.EC can only climb when you add water with EC into a medium that already has salts in it, since no way you're gonna flush out what was already inside the medium inside the runoff. And to give enough runoff to avoid EC climb while feeding with each watering imho is a waste of nutes.

So, you're again on the right track by giving a 0.2-0.4 watering to flush it out. You just need to do it regularly. Since you're feeding 3 times a day I'd say feed once and do low EC twice, or feed twice and do low EC once. Don't really need to give a full feed with every watering imho since your medium clearly still has enough in it.

Cheers

 

[thewhitelotus]

You don't have to worry so much about individual elements when you've got a balanced feed.

What is the NPK of your base nutrient, and on a typical feed, what EC will you bring your water up to before adding anything else?

For example, go to 0.8ec with base feed, then to 1.2 with budxl... etc

5ml A: .3 - 0 - .3
5ml B: .1 - .3 - .6
1ml Drip Clean: 0 - 0.18 - .6
3.8ml Bud XL: .4 - 0 - .2

That mix right there gets me an EC of about .9. My tap water doesnt register on my BlueLab Truncheon, as we have some of the best tap in the country

 

[papaduc]

Ok... so, I've done a bit of looking into the house and garden line of nutrients to find out why those numbers look so strange...

Apparently they've had a load of trouble with the regulatory bodies over in the states with regards to the amount of nutrients in their bottles.

A guaranteed analysis if the minimum amount of each main nutrient that should be in the bottle. According to tests done on their products, they fell short.

So, to "make sure" they're not going to have any trouble in the future, they have cut the figures shown on the bottle to 1/10th of what they say is actually in there. so 3 becomes 0.3 and so on

In other words, if they are ever tested, the lab will find that every nute is way above the 0.3 - 0.2 - 0.1 listed. The lab might not disclose what amounts are in the bottle, just that they're above the tiny amounts listed.

To me, this is such a dodgy way to go about things. Why not just make sure your nutes are as strong as you say they are, rather than manipulating the numbers in such a way?

Anyway... onto the bud-xl... which they say is a "truly unique product"

I'll admit, it is a very unique product. Because it's is a high nitrogen flower booster. And you don't see many of those.

Apparently it's full of magic beans which make your plants extract sugars in a way which they can't explain.

Do they work, don't they work? We can all speculate. But what we do know for a fact is that the Nitrogen you are adding by putting in just on 4ml of BudXL is what's causing your plants to look a little green.

And this is the thing... when I initially looked at your plants, I thought, just a tiny bit nitrogen heavy. But then I looked at your numbers and couldn't make head nor tail of it. It didn't make sense. Now it makes perfect sense.

Give or take, your NPK ratio going in is close to 7-4-11
I know from using Hesi's old bloom formula of 8-6-10 that the nitrogen is a little much to flower with right through bloom.

Your plants are just a bit nitrogen heavy. Drop the BudXL.

Forget the run off figures. They show you nothing you can't already see in your plants. Pretty much the only thing you need to know when you go into flower is how and when to adjust the nitrogen. A good full bloom feed will have a bit less nitrogen in than that. Otherwise you're ok.

 

[unregistered190]

My tap water doesnt register on my BlueLab Truncheon, as we have some of the best tap in the country

Lotus...am looking at the Truncheon....and manufacturer says it requires no calibration. How does one make sure it is accurate? I know with my pH meter, I have buffer solution to campare it to....and over time it does drift and need adjusting.

 

[thewhitelotus]

I have yet to ever calibrate it. Ive had mine for a year and have used the same nutrients so i know what it should be and it flashes right on the dot everytime. i clean it about once a month but other than that i dont do anything to it

 

[thewhitelotus]

Ok... so, I've done a bit of looking into the house and garden line of nutrients to find out why those numbers look so strange...

Apparently they've had a load of trouble with the regulatory bodies over in the states with regards to the amount of nutrients in their bottles.

A guaranteed analysis if the minimum amount of each main nutrient that should be in the bottle. According to tests done on their products, they fell short.

So, to "make sure" they're not going to have any trouble in the future, they have cut the figures shown on the bottle to 1/10th of what they say is actually in there. so 3 becomes 0.3 and so on

In other words, if they are ever tested, the lab will find that every nute is way above the 0.3 - 0.2 - 0.1 listed. The lab might not disclose what amounts are in the bottle, just that they're above the tiny amounts listed.

To me, this is such a dodgy way to go about things. Why not just make sure your nutes are as strong as you say they are, rather than manipulating the numbers in such a way?

Anyway... onto the bud-xl... which they say is a "truly unique product"

I'll admit, it is a very unique product. Because it's is a high nitrogen flower booster. And you don't see many of those.

Apparently it's full of magic beans which make your plants extract sugars in a way which they can't explain.

Do they work, don't they work? We can all speculate. But what we do know for a fact is that the Nitrogen you are adding by putting in just on 4ml of BudXL is what's causing your plants to look a little green.

And this is the thing... when I initially looked at your plants, I thought, just a tiny bit nitrogen heavy. But then I looked at your numbers and couldn't make head nor tail of it. It didn't make sense. Now it makes perfect sense.

Give or take, your NPK ratio going in is close to 7-4-11
I know from using Hesi's old bloom formula of 8-6-10 that the nitrogen is a little much to flower with right through bloom.

Your plants are just a bit nitrogen heavy. Drop the BudXL.

Forget the run off figures. They show you nothing you can't already see in your plants. Pretty much the only thing you need to know when you go into flower is how and when to adjust the nitrogen. A good full bloom feed will have a bit less nitrogen in than that. Otherwise you're ok.

Thanks for the reply buddy! I too just read about the debacle of House & Gardens labeling. The Bud XL is used weeks 4-8 and today, start of week 6 i just added some Top Shooter which is labeled at 0-.9-.7! Strong stuff. Recommended dose is 2.5ml/gal but from last run i know its a lil strong so i started out at half strength.

I dropped the Bud XL to half strength as well, as i agree the plants are lookin rather dark green

 

[papaduc]

Just go by the EC when you feed, never follow the guides. That way you can tailor any nutrient to your regime, not the other way round.

The top shooter is their PK booster, same as any other. If I was using those nutes I'd just bring my EC (starting from tap water of 0.2) to 0.8 with the base feed, then to 1.0 with the top shooter. I actually wouldn't use the BudXL at all, because from what I can see, the main thing it is adding into your mix, apart from some sugars, is nitrogen; the very thing you need to drop. Dropping it by half will have a positive effect though, I'm sure about that.

Whether you drop it altogether or just cut it in half for the rest of the grow, just make the next feed up without it and get a healthy bit of run off.