SUPERTHRIVE

[canna woop!]

What's super thrive? I know there is some naa in there, but what do they add? A. Secret form of potassium?

 

[Weezard]

Thiamine, Naphthylacetic acid, and hyperbole.
All of which, are bullshit!

The inventor won an award. For Marketing excellence!
Think about that.

Aloha,

 

[mrrangz]

Superthrive has a content of NAA at 0.048% but for the price its not worth even buying.

NAA by itself wont stimulate root initiation, but tagged along with other auxins the effect might be better.

Dip n Gro is a way better auxin product containing IBA and NAA at at 2/1 ratio.
http://www.dipngrow.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/08/DipN-Grow-MSDS.pdf

i found this very helpful when i was messing with dip n gro.
http://www.dipngrow.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/08/Parts-Per-Million-PPM.pdf

IAA is a far superior auxin compared to IBA and NAA

 

[Sativa Dragon]

Thanks folks, I have heard of people using willow twigs in water for a rooting hormone, the tree has a couple of substances, one mentioned above Salicylic acis and the other is the well know, indolebutyric acid, or IBA Of course aspirin does not contain the later for obvious reasons.

Apparently a willow branch as thick as a human thigh can be shoved in damp soil and it will grow roots, Amazing stuff.

Peace

 

[supermanlives]

yes willow works . the new growth shoots are best. I used to have willow tree in back yard.its been covered here before along with superjive. I know searching can be a bitch tho lol. I am sure I replied to last superjive thread the same way and I have said b1 was bs many times too here.

 

[Stonefree69]

Weezard & supermanlives thanks for your input. So I guess aspirin can go in my arsenal along with Rosemary & Neem oil, soaps for foliage apps. Yeah the seedling benefit I noticed too. Just make sure it's pure and not coated... I had some free Superthrive & never used it. Young plants & seedlings (past 1st or so nodes) especially ones like pot like good amounts of N.

I'm just setting up to do an an aspirin/no aspirin, side by side on some seedlings.
It gets touted because of the aggressive nature of willow roots.

That made little sense to me.
Willow roots are quite aggressive, and do produce salicylic acid, that's true.

However, if it is a root stimulant, would it not "stimulate" growth of the competition roots?

Most plants generate compounds that impede root growth in competing plants.
Compounds that they, and their siblings are unaffected by.
It's a survival strategy.

All that said.
Cut flowers do seem to last longer with aspirin.
I have noticed that it does not cause them to grow roots.

So, is it of any use to med. farmers?
V shell C.

Weeze

Weezard, I like your Times New Roman font. I think it's supposed to be easier to read or remember than Arial font which seems to be the IC Mag default font.

 

[headband 707]

This really is the best idea . I have used it for years and as far as I could see it helped at least with all my tropicals . So a side by side would be helpful to just see once and for all if it really helps or I just think it does lol stay frosty headband 707

I'm just setting up to do an an aspirin/no aspirin, side by side on some seedlings.
It gets touted because of the aggressive nature of willow roots.

That made little sense to me.
Willow roots are quite aggressive, and do produce salicylic acid, that's true.

However, if it is a root stimulant, would it not "stimulate" growth of the competition roots?

Most plants generate compounds that impede root growth in competing plants.
Compounds that they, and their siblings are unaffected by.
It's a survival strategy.

All that said.
Cut flowers do seem to last longer with aspirin.
I have noticed that it does not cause them to grow roots.

So, is it of any use to med. farmers?
V shell C.

Weeze

 

[supermanlives]

i have never tried aspirin I have used willow. never did a comparison. hell for a few years I thought olivias was the bomb. it don't even have any alleged rooting compounds its just a weak fert I finally realized. but my cloning got better lol. I been using woods or nothing. need to do a side by side someday an see what really works . but not now as I am busy hiking an fishing an hiding from the old lady here in sequoia lol

 

[Rocketman64]

The post made by Headband707 came from this awesome website:

http://puyallup.wsu.edu/~Linda Chalker-Scott/Horticultural Myths_files/Myths/Vitamin B1.pdf

I'm sure it's been posted before but it sure fits in the topic here. There is a whole list of myths debunked by a PHD in horticulture. It's hours of informative reading. As a matter of fact, some of the information contained therein has caused me to change the way I look at nutrients and additives. The author is a bit 'organic heavy' in her recommendations, however, there's enough accurate information regarding general horticulture to apply directly with how a lot of us grow.
Enjoy.

 

[federal-inmate]

I've heard in partials reasons to not use it but I did use it for few years in conjunction with AN from start to finish but that was with an old Dr. Greenthumb recipe way back. now I don't use it or at least use it for transplant or shocked plants as needed but it works good

 

[foomar]

It is considered a textbook example of a type of marketing practice.

Has been promoted to most gardening sectors at some time in its dubious history , very few brought a second bottle.

It survives as a cheap point of sale impulse buy , promiseing an easy fix for numerous growroom deficiencies with little effort , and a 200 % profit margin to the shop.

Here's What Makes This Product Packaging Stand Out

Notice on the front cover how the package uses the following techniques...

1.1. A very bold headline
"#1 Extra Life"

2.2. Very powerful words
"World Champion", "Greatest Guarantee", "Proof", "Vitamins-Hormones", "Science Miracle."

3.3. Bold colors
Bright yellow, red, and green.

4.4. A variety of large fonts

5.5. Photos of healthy plants and trees


And Did You Take a Look at the Back of the Package?

If you examined the back of the Superthrive package you would have noticed that it's as compelling as the front of the package, but in a different way.

There's no bright colors or photos.

It's all text.

But the text is very compelling.

On most bottles of something, the back is filled with cautions, directions, and ingredients.

The back of Superthrive is filled with additional sales copy. Notice how the back says, "EXTRA LIFE for YOUR..." and it lists 10 different things to which Superthrive provides extra life.

Basically the front of this package gives you all the emotional reasons for buying and the back gives you a lot of logical reasons for buying.

It's no wonder that Superthrive has taken the fertilizer world by storm (even though they don't claim to be a fertilizer).

It is trademarked but not patented , anyone could reverse engineer and bring out a competitor by another name like Megathrive , but none have bothered.

It tastes sweet , if sugars then not a good idea in a bubble cloner for risk of mould.

Seventy odd years and I can find no credible side by side that suggests it works.


Have used it for several problems with no noticeable effect , from sickly canna and show plants to ten acres of grass seed on the farm in the 70,s, and I consider it of no value , and money wasted on false advertising.

 

[Stonefree69]

It is considered a textbook example of a type of marketing practice.

Has been promoted to most gardening sectors at some time in its dubious history , very few brought a second bottle.

It survives as a cheap point of sale impulse buy , promiseing an easy fix for numerous growroom deficiencies with little effort , and a 200 % profit margin to the shop.

View Image

View Image

View Image




It is trademarked but not patented , anyone could reverse engineer and bring out a competitor by another name like Megathrive , but none have bothered.

It tastes sweet , if sugars then not a good idea in a bubble cloner for risk of mould.

Seventy odd years and I can find no credible side by side that suggests it works.


Have used it for several problems with no noticeable effect , from sickly canna and show plants to ten acres of grass seed on the farm in the 70,s, and I consider it of no value , and money wasted on false advertising.

LOL the Barnum Effect in full swing... Here's what something looks like that really works:

Just got finished making fun of Storch Oil. The ingredients are ok but WAY overhyped and overpriced.

 

[dank.frank]

In all this talk, I've not heard one person mention Thrive Alive B-1 - green label, ie organic.

It is the equivalent to SuperThrive, but better... I like to dip my cuttings into water that has a couple drops of Thrive Alive in it - always get better results than if I don't use it - so, that isn't scientific, but it's been enough for me to keep a bottle around...

That aside - I like to add willow bark powder to my soil mix from time to time and it seems to make a positive impact on the early stages / development of roots - ie they fill the container faster than side by side soil without it.

Check out Mountain Rose Herbs - for the willow bark powder. Like the aspirin, it doesn't take very much to be effective.





dank.Frank

 

[Granger2]

About 30 years ago, I saw a Qt bottle of Superthrive. That gives them even more room for fine print and claims with eccentric wording. I took the time to read it, and it was entertaining. It is mainly Vit. B-1 and NAA, which is a hormone found in many rooting hormones like Vita Grow, Dip N Grow, others along with the main one Indole 3 butyric acid. BTW, contrary to what many think, it is NOT organic. -granger

 

[Team Microbe]

About 30 years ago, I saw a Qt bottle of Superthrive. That gives them even more room for fine print and claims with eccentric wording. I took the time to read it, and it was entertaining. It is mainly Vit. B-1 and NAA, which is a hormone found in many rooting hormones like Vita Grow, Dip N Grow, others along with the main one Indole 3 butyric acid. BTW, contrary to what many think, it is NOT organic. -granger

what isn't organic about it?

 

[foomar]

This seems to be the analysis , but may have changed recently.

Naphthaleneacetic Acid 0.048%

Vitamin B1 0.09%


Vitamin B1 has little evidence to justify its use , and there are better sources of NAA.

By Robert Cox, Horticulture Agent, Colorado State University Cooperative Extension

Many consumers assume that products on the store shelf must have been tested to prove their claims. Certainly, fertilizers have to meet nutrient content requirements, and pesticides are rigorously tested for safety before EPA registration.

For some other garden products, however, no such testing is required before sale to the public.

A good example is vitamin B1 (thiamine), often sold to "prevent transplant shock" and "stimulate new root growth" when planting trees, shrubs, roses and other plants. A study in the 1930's provided the basis for such claims. Pea roots cut off from the plant were placed in a culture medium in the laboratory.

The researchers knew that thiamine was normally found in roots, so they put thiamine in the culture medium and found that root growth did occur. Vitamin B1 is manufactured in 0lant leaves and sent to the roots, but if roots are cut off and placed in a petri plate, vitamin B1 stimulates growth of the roots when it saturates the culture medium.

Planting trees in a soil environment, however, is vastly different from a laboratory culture. Most important, gardeners aren't in the habit of cutting off the root system when planting. Several studies using intact mums, apple trees, orange trees, pine, tomato, beans, pepper, corn, pear, watermelon and squash have failed to demonstrate that vitamin B1 treatments provide any type of growth response.

Some "root stimulator" products contain a rooting hormone and fertilizer along with vitamin B1. These materials may increase rooting and growth, not the vitamin B1.

The bottom line: While root stimulator products are not necessary for transplant success, if you do use one, make sure it contains a rooting hormone and fertilizer rather than just vitamin B1. The vitamin B1 is for marketing purposes rather than actual effect.

what isn't organic about it?

From the website.

IS IT ORGANIC?
SUPERthrive is non-toxic, while it is natural, it cannot be certified as organic because some of the ingredients are made synthetically. In order to label a product as organic, all ingredients must follow OMRI guidelines.

Which means it uses cheap NAA brought in bulk from china and a huge markup.




If you think things get heated here you should check out the superthrive threads on other specialist plant forums , anecdotal evidence against science as usual.

 

[Stonefree69]

what isn't organic about it?

I don't know about Superthrive but many synthetic B vitamins are derived from coal tar, even the ones people take. I'm a hydro guy myself but I don't like any known to be harmful or questionable substances getting exposed to my plants which I myself am later exposed to. Having organic certification or 100% sources verified from organics helps.

Thanks dank.frank, another organic source (willow bark) I'm adding to my list.

 

[Stonefree69]

Check out Mountain Rose Herbs - for the willow bark powder. Like the aspirin, it doesn't take very much to be effective.





dank.Frank

One study noted 1,360 mg of willow bark has 240 mg salicin (the natural ingredient relatively compared with 50-100 mg acetyl derivative of salicylic acid, the active ingredient in aspirin). So that's 5.67 times the aspirin dose in mg of willow bark - yeah pretty close - willow bark is naturally concentrated!

Interesting: "Some occasional gastrointestinal upset and allergic reactions occur with the use of white willow extract, but the incidence of stomach upset and intestinal distress are significantly less than occurs with use of aspirin."

Jeez, aspirin works pretty good on myself when I need it for inflammation & occasional headaches (so does Aleve) & heard willow bark is even much better!

So those pics I posted of Bayer aspirin advertising really is another case of the Barnum effect in action (and below that a "natural" looking simple Barnum effect pic of a watering container and bottle of aspirin), fooled me...... White willow bark - what you need to know.




BTW I have a half dozen or so bottles of Thrive Alive & Technaflora sample nutes too, never tried 'em though. I gave them to a friend I think for his garden.. But if it's "green" it shouldn't at least hurt to try.

 

[Granger2]

Naphthaleneacetic Acid 0.048%

 

[Stonefree69]

In my post above I said "1,360 mg of willow bark has 240 mg salicin". That's most likely a concentrated extract (15% salicin). White willow bark varies but is on average 5-6% salicin. Also from a reliable source: "Serum salicylate concentrations during treatment suggest that a daily consumption of 240 mg of salicin as extract is bio-equivalent to 50-87 mg acetylsalicylic acid" from http://www.ema.europa.eu/docs/en_GB...MPC_assessment_report/2009/12/WC500018258.pdf

So to get that white willow bark equivalent of 120 mg aspirin (the 1 1/2 aspirin tablets used in 2 gallons of water) that's about 330-580 mg salicin equivalent which at 6% concentration would require about 5,500-9,600 mg white willow bark powder. Rounded off that's 5-10 grams willow bark powder per 2 gallons water. This should ideally be brewed overnight. Still even at 10 grams/2 gallons, a pound of white willow bark powder will make 90 gallons of treated water.

As for 500 mg aspirin being equal to about 800 mg salicin, not sure if that source is as accurate, I've come across that number a few times. They also note in same article though it takes at least 88 grams of willow bark to equal a dose of aspirin, but that's if willow bark is a fraction of a percent salicin which is inaccurate (white willow bark averages 1-11% depending on source).