Using Surfactants, Wetting Agents, and Adjuvants

[Stonefree69]

This is great info. Was researching surfacants to use in foliar sprays. Was considering Dawn original formula and also Safer Brand Insect Killing Soap or Fels-Naptha Laundry Bar Soap as an alternative. Foliar sprays are mainly for early plants and nitrogen supplementation (like Dyna-Gro Foliage Pro) along with pest control/prevention (Neem & Rosemary oil). Anyway surfacants can be either organic (fatty acids) or inorganic (like anionic surfactants in Dawn dish soap).

I hear application rates for non-ultra Dawn are anywhere from a teaspoon to a tablespoon per gallon of water. As long as Dawn is not the anti-bacterial formulation it should be OK, it's used extensively on oil soaked animals safely as you know. Here's the link - Using Surfactants, Wetting Agents, and Adjuvants in the Greenhouse

Hope it helps you members here @ ICMag!

 

[Stonefree69]

Also Yucca extract is a natural wetting agent.

 

[JimmyToucan]

Non scented Ivory dish soap here. Youll see yucca in some of the snake oil products...at a premium price of course.

 

[supermanlives]

I use some campers soap.

 

[Stonefree69]

Well after doing some more searching I'm going with Yucca extract, about 15 bucks online for a quart of Vermaplex or some from tandjenterprises.com. Vermaplex is actually cheaper @ the hydro store online (horticulturesource.com).

Yucca extract is also a fungal food so just watch where, when & what you apply it with. Should be no prob though if you've got good air circ, etc.

Ivory Liquid dish soap is non-ionic, whereas Dawn dish soap is considered anionic and does not work as well.

 

[Stonefree69]

OK here's a list of excellent wetting agents I've come across:

VermaPlex Liquid Yucca Quart
Safergro Natural Wet Quart
ThermX 70 Natural Wetting Agent quart
Nutrilife SM-90 1 Liter
Earth Juice Assist Quart
Dr. Bronner's Baby-Mild Pure Castile Soap Liquid unscented 4-32 oz


ThermX 70 is the most concentrated Yucca extract, I might get that and also add it to my res water. Supposed to also help nutrient uptake. SM-90 is nice also for pest control but I'm already using Neem & Rosemary oil for prevention. I might just get both.

Some are perfectly happy with Dawn dish soap and they've tried them all above, that's good too if you want pest control. Guess to each his/her own...

 

[federal-inmate]

I do a every 3 days rotation foliar regimen since 4 years ago dr.greenthumb pm me on another forum to try it and really like how it work for me. sm-90 + marinis or maxicrop depending on the availability, 3 days later neem oil + suck it up, 3 days later sm-90 + neem @1/4 strength using a electric fogger and in flower sm-90 + neem or nutrilife yucca for thee first two weeks of flowering

 

[watts]

Dr. Broners castle soap and T&J Enterprise Yucca extract are my preferred brands.

 

[Stonefree69]

Thanks watts.

If you have bennies like mycorrhizae fungus the Thermx 70 has preservatives (could be sodium benzoate) that could inhibit their growth in DWC or even soil. I don't deal though with bennies in RDWC, though I'm not positive my Rapid Rooters have them (early veg) they seem inert and don't "spoil" after long storage. The Thermx 70 is very concentrated and all you need is 1/4 teaspoon or 1.25 ml per gallon (4 ounces/100 gallons) for coverage or I'd suppose also used in DWC.

Saponyn or Ag-Aid 50 are good fungus friendly yucca extract alternates w/o preservatives, in fact the fungus like the saponins and high brix/sugar content in yucca extract.

 

[Stonefree69]

Saponyn might be Thermx 70 without the preservatives and better quality. Application rate 2 ounces per 100 gallons instead or 4 ounces like with Thermx 70 or a measly 1/8 teaspoon/gallon or .6 ml/gallon. Found 1 place online it's $120/gallon- good for treating 6,400 gallons.

Other nice wetting agents are Tween 80 & Mega Wet from Hydrofarm, especially if you want to help the bennies & mycology too.

 

[Stonefree69]

Dr. Broners castle soap and T&J Enterprise Yucca extract are my preferred brands.

Dr. Bronner's and Safers insecticidal soap are excellent emulsifiers if you want to use to help dissolve Neem oil. They are also OMRI or "organic approved". Also Pro-Tekt will work too or even Neem oil soap.

 

[Stonefree69]

Just found a SUPER DEAL on 100% natural yucca extrract concentrate @ http://greenplantfuel.com/ (Barney's Tree Experts) for $24/95/gallon or $43.90/2 gallons.

Application rate is "Spray: Use 3 ounces of liquid yucca per 100 gallons of water." Each oz. is 30 ml, so that's 90 ml/100 gallons or .9 ml/gallon. Even beats Thermx 70 which is 1.25 ml/gallon! Not quite as concentrated as Saponyn but about 1/5th the price and you only need 50% more to dose with (.9 ml/gallon vs .6 ml/gallon). In the end that's about 1/3 the price relatively to get everything covered.

They seem to have a good rep (and A+ rating with BBB) and they might well be my next order!

 

[Stonefree69]

And another! Yuccah Wetting Agent Concentrate 1 gallon I've seen for $46/gallon from http://esscodist.com/ App rate is 8 oz/100 gallons or 2.4 ml/gallon. Here the .pdf: http://www.lebanonturf.com/labels/3724558.pdf

It does have .015% copper sulfate as a preservative, but Yuccah is supposed to be a premier brand and a standard to measure against for progardeners. To quote: "Yuccah is safe, natural alternative to chemical wetting agents, spreaders and soil penetrants that won't harm plants or beneficial bacteria - even when applied in hot, dry conditions. A performance-enhanced wetter/penetrant derived from the Yucca schidigera catus plant, Yuccah outperforms comparable petroleum-and alcohol-based products when evaluated as a soil penetrant or wetting agent in dry, compacted and hydrophobic soil. In addonion, research shows that Yuccah stimulates beneficial bacteria and plant growth, making it the ideal treatment for recovery from summer stress and winter freeze damage."

Guess the copper sulfate is in minute concentrations but that stuff is used too for pest control: "Copper sulfate is an inorganic compound that combines sulfur with copper. It can kill bacteria, algae, roots, plants, snails, and fungi. The toxicity of copper sulfate depends on the copper content. Copper is an essential mineral. It can be found in the environment, foods, and water. Copper sulfate has been registered for use in pesticide products in the United States since 1956."

So Yuccah product is not truly "organic" if you're being picky with your needs...

 

[watts]

Much better prices than the T&J, which charge $80 per gallon. Wonder why they charge so much for theirs?

 

[one.sixoneeight]

Surprised Bills Coco-wet has not been mentioned yet.

 

[Stonefree69]

Much better prices than the T&J, which charge $80 per gallon. Wonder why they charge so much for theirs?

Good point. If you factor in the price and concentrations there's a group pretty close in price then the diluted stuff like Wet Betty puts it in the expensive champagne class. Inluded also is Nutralife & Earth Juice Assist, but if you don't need much still OK to get a quart of or so... My question is how does Barney's Tree Experts sell it for for $24/95/gallon? I'm gettin some. It goes a looong way like those others that are $80-120/gallon (& those are good deals too if you need that amount).

Surprised Bills Coco-wet has not been mentioned yet.

Thanks one.sixoneeight, looks like another killer wetting agent deal. Not sure of the app rate - is it 1/2 tsp or 2.5 ml per gallon (using foliage app rates)?

 

[Coconutz]

Whats the difference between an emulsifier and a wetting agent or surfacant?

 

[watts]

I use Silica like Dyna-Gro Pro-tekt to emulsify neem oil because it's so thick, then i add Dr. Bronner's castle soap or yucca extract as a wetting agent to penetrate the leaves better. So I'd say emulsify is for breaking down and a wetting agent to make whatever you are spraying penetrate plant foliage. A wetting agent also helps nutrient water penetrate your soil better.

 

[Stonefree69]

I use Silica like Dyna-Gro Pro-tekt to emulsify neem oil because it's so thick, then i add Dr. Bronner's castle soap or yucca extract as a wetting agent to penetrate the leaves better. So I'd say emulsify is for breaking down and a wetting agent to make whatever you are spraying penetrate plant foliage. A wetting agent also helps nutrient water penetrate your soil better.

Basically sums it up. Soap is an emulsifier, that's what helps make oil & water mix. Shampoo would also be considered an emulsifier.

Just got my Thermx 90 quart. Surprisingly it's organic certified (OMRI or "organic approved" on the label) and the ingredients all add up to 100% as yucca extract (active & in active) and no sodium benzoate listed at all. That would null the OMRI cert too so guess they offer w/o preservatives like T&J and some other makers.

The quart was $40 shipped, I'll take a pic when lights on where it's in my grow room. 8 ounces covers 100 gallons for foliage spray so a quart bottle (4 cups) would last for 200 gallons.

For a 6-5 gallon bucket rdwc system using 21 gallons (3 gallons/bucket) that quart would last about a 9 week flower period (200 gallons/21 gallons each week for rdwc comes out to 9 1/2 weeks). For rdwc to have decent stock in hand I will need something in bigger size (gallon) and more concentrated could help too that uses only 2-4 ounces/100 gallons or .6-1.2 ml/gallon like Saponyn & Yucca Extract which I guess I might order. I mean $24.95/gallon?! At 3 ounces/100 gallons for application a gallon's good for 4,260 gallons diluted plenty for rdwc. I want to compare that with Saponyn or some others members here posted.

That's why too dish soap is popular, it's <$10 a bottle. $24.95/gallon is about as cheap as dish soap.

 

[Stonefree69]

Here's my quart bottle of Thermx 70:

Best way of dispensing I found outside of full automation, using pumps & in 5-1,000 ml graduated glass cylinders & beakers (pH I'll automate later). No bottles to open and caps to screw back on or tedious tilting of gallon containers, etc etc...............:

More quart & gallon pumps for dispensing:

KISS






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