Heat issues with my stacked vertical setup.

[FunkJungle]

I've recently added a 2nd light to my vert setup.

Here is my current setup:

It is a stacked vert 1000w on top 600w on bottom. The 600 is temporary and will soon be replaced with a 2nd 1000w

So very soon I will be working with a 64" x 64" x 96" cab with 2000k.

The room itself is 9' x 15'

Currently the only way I'm able to cool the room with both lights on is to intake directly from outside. The window is right next to the cab so the pic is slightly off. There is only a couple feet of duct from cab to window.

6" 425 cfm (or might be 415 cfm) filter/fan venting outside.

3 x 6" intakes- 1 from outside, 1 from ground level directly below window, 1 from veg/drying chamber.

With one light this setup worked. Now that I've added a 2nd light, my temps during lights on reach 85. So what I've been doing is taking intake #2 and drawing from the window alongside intake #1.

Even with this adjustment my temps are around 83.

Once the lights go off my temps drop into the high 50's.

So at the moment when lights go off I remove intake 1 and 2 from the window, bringing my temperatures in the cab to mid-sixties. It won't reach higher because the window is slightly open for the exhaust.

Looking for some suggestions.

I have a second exhaust fan/scrubber of equal size at my disposal, but before I do anything with it I'm hoping to get some input on how to properly set it up.

I realize that intake from outside is not going to work as it is only going to get colder.

Will adding a 2nd 400 cfm exhaust outside bring my temps down?

Another option I was considering is adding an active intake with my 2nd 400 cfm from the living room that will kick on when the lights go off, and use a fan speed contoller to slow it down a little, so that I won't be intaking so much from outside but will maintain negative pressure.

This is more power in a single cab than I'm used to. Open to any ideas on how to resolve this.

Thanks.

-FJ

 

[ozzieAI]

what i am realising is that all fans are not created equal...i am looking to upgrade inline fan (el cheapos) to some high quality, german made can fans...a mate has one and it kicks arse...quiet to?

so what fans are you running?

and yes a second fan will help, so will making the intakes active over passive...

pop in and have a look at the issues faced by heat in bobs country bunker thread...

good luck...

 

[SirStynkalot]

You have a lot of ducting and not a lot of fans.

A big fan sucking out of a closed box is still not going to push out air. Ducting, especially flex ducting, has a huge amount of drag. Small angles in it increase drag significantly. Therefore, no active intake = closed box. Day night temp swing next to an open window's got nothing to do with your ducting unless you've insulated the fudge out of your box, which no one ever bothers with for less than a basement.

If you are trying to intake through ducting, you need fans roughly 1/2-3/4x the CFM of the outtake fan depending on the ducting.

In my experience for that much light and footage, through a hole in the side you can use a 4" fan. through more than 90 degree total bend or 10 feetish of flex duct you need a 6". I never did much more than that - I think I had like a 40' 6" line once snaking through the room but that was a nightmare and I tore it down asap. Used zip ties instead of duct clamps on the whole thing.

Just so you know, the same rule goes for the outtake except it'd be bumped up one size. So for a box your size it'd be 6" low drag / 8" high drag.

That's without factoring in the filter drag. It should still exhaust air through that sized box with a filter on, but it's going to be closer to once every 5 minutes than every 2. 2 is the recommended minimum I think for vert bare bulb, lung room temp regulation only setups.

Sorry, that's just the best I remember off the top of my head. I did vent drag calculations for several boxes of varying configurations over the years so I'm kinda guesstimating. The exact formulas should be somewhere on this site in some equipment sticky. If not they're in the Bible. You should probably do the calculations yourself if you want an exact answer anyway.

If you want the quick, simple way I'd do it, I say 6" fan filter outtake high for the lights 6" fan filter intake high with a bend and ducting running down to the bottom of the box. Try and slow down the temp swing at light on/off before you get a chance to shut the window. Veg room 6" fan filter outtake 4" intake same setup same logic.

 

[flat9]

Control the intake fan to solve that down to 50 degree problem:

http://www.amazon.com/Lux-Heating-Cooling-Programmable-Thermostat/dp/B000E7NYY8/r

 

[flat9]

The other thing you probably want to do is buy a piece of acrylic to put in the window, use 6" hole saws to cut some holes, and attach a couple of 6" duct flanges (one for intake, one for exhaust). This way you can keep your window closed (up to the piece of acrylic) so the temps in the room shouldn't change much from whatever the rest of the house is at...

 

[Kush Technician]

you only have 227 cubic feet and are trying to light that with 2000w and are now experiencing high temps with 1600w? My opinion is too much light. Try two 600w lamps and increasing total laminar air flow, meaning increasing both in- and out-take.

 

[TheCleanGame]

---snip---

 

[FunkJungle]

what i am realising is that all fans are not created equal...i am looking to upgrade inline fan (el cheapos) to some high quality, german made can fans...a mate has one and it kicks arse...quiet to?

so what fans are you running?

and yes a second fan will help, so will making the intakes active over passive...

pop in and have a look at the issues faced by heat in bobs country bunker thread...

good luck...

The fan I have is a 6" Valueline fan. Seems to pump out the air pretty well. The filter is a phresh filter. I went on their website and used the cfm calculator. For my space with 2 lights it said 395 (I believe or around there) was enough. It didn't ask to specify wattage which is why I wasnt sure on the proper amount of cfm.

I'll check out that thread thanks for your input.

 

[frankenstein2]

You could always make another intake that pulls in air from outdoors. Then attach a small muffin fan to it directly under the lights gently pushing cool air over the lights. (It sounds good in my head, lol). If money's not a problem get a bigger exhaust fan and filter(10 inch), and add another passive intake. Just shooting out ideas here of possible ways I would try and solve the problem. Also with temps like that during lights on, you could add co2 and not have to change anything!!! Do it!!......Just do it!!

 

[FunkJungle]

You have a lot of ducting and not a lot of fans.

A big fan sucking out of a closed box is still not going to push out air. Ducting, especially flex ducting, has a huge amount of drag. Small angles in it increase drag significantly. Therefore, no active intake = closed box. Day night temp swing next to an open window's got nothing to do with your ducting unless you've insulated the fudge out of your box, which no one ever bothers with for less than a basement.

If you are trying to intake through ducting, you need fans roughly 1/2-3/4x the CFM of the outtake fan depending on the ducting.

In my experience for that much light and footage, through a hole in the side you can use a 4" fan. through more than 90 degree total bend or 10 feetish of flex duct you need a 6". I never did much more than that - I think I had like a 40' 6" line once snaking through the room but that was a nightmare and I tore it down asap. Used zip ties instead of duct clamps on the whole thing.

Just so you know, the same rule goes for the outtake except it'd be bumped up one size. So for a box your size it'd be 6" low drag / 8" high drag.

That's without factoring in the filter drag. It should still exhaust air through that sized box with a filter on, but it's going to be closer to once every 5 minutes than every 2. 2 is the recommended minimum I think for vert bare bulb, lung room temp regulation only setups.

Sorry, that's just the best I remember off the top of my head. I did vent drag calculations for several boxes of varying configurations over the years so I'm kinda guesstimating. The exact formulas should be somewhere on this site in some equipment sticky. If not they're in the Bible. You should probably do the calculations yourself if you want an exact answer anyway.

If you want the quick, simple way I'd do it, I say 6" fan filter outtake high for the lights 6" fan filter intake high with a bend and ducting running down to the bottom of the box. Try and slow down the temp swing at light on/off before you get a chance to shut the window. Veg room 6" fan filter outtake 4" intake same setup same logic.

Actually, my cab is made out of 1" thick insulation board. I didn't consider that would cause such an issue with heat. Maybe I should take it down and just use panda film over the frame. Then maybe I won't have to intake from outside to deal with all the heat.

Interesting insights about the drag caused by ducting. I never thought of that. I will say though that the exhaust airflow is pretty damn strong. But yeah maybe even still it's just not enough.

As far as the ducting goes, it looks like more of it in the pic than there actually is. I messed it up when drawing. Intake 1 and 2 are going through about 2 1/2 feet of duct each. I could easily take out the duct for intake 2 and just have it intake directly into the box. The reason I had the duct for that one is because I thought it would be easier to adjust to avoid light leaks.

Intake 3 is going through 6 feet of duct.

My hopes for this design were to avoid using excess electricity with multiple fans. Perhaps the passive intake idea is just not ideal for this kind of setup.

What if I were to build square intake passageways about the same size with a straight line of insulation board so there were no ridges or bends for intakes 1 and 3, and then just had a 6" opening right on the cab for intake 2? Would that take care of the drag issue?


I'm wondering if there's a way to have it set up so that I don't need to use the window at all. Seems such a waste to be sending hot air out the window during the winter while pulling in freezing cold air. How about intake/outtake to other rooms in the apt?

In an ideal setup with 75 degree room temperature (I am not able to change the temp of the apartment), how much hotter should the flower room be when lights are on?

 

[FunkJungle]

Control the intake fan to solve that down to 50 degree problem:

http://www.amazon.com/Lux-Heating-Cooling-Programmable-Thermostat/dp/B000E7NYY8/r

Oh yeah that's nice! I was going to just use a dimmer but this looks much better. So will it adjust the fan speed or just turn it on/off whenever the temps change?

The other thing you probably want to do is buy a piece of acrylic to put in the window, use 6" hole saws to cut some holes, and attach a couple of 6" duct flanges (one for intake, one for exhaust). This way you can keep your window closed (up to the piece of acrylic) so the temps in the room shouldn't change much from whatever the rest of the house is at...

I recently put a piece of insulation board over the window and cut holes for the intake/outtake.

 

[FunkJungle]

you only have 227 cubic feet and are trying to light that with 2000w and are now experiencing high temps with 1600w? My opinion is too much light. Try two 600w lamps and increasing total laminar air flow, meaning increasing both in- and out-take.

I'm thinking the issue is a design flaw. Pretty sure this setup with 2k is attainable. Lots of people run stacked 2k. I know 5x5 is ideal for 1k. I don't have the room for a side by side. If I have to I'll just keep it at 1600.

 

[FunkJungle]

...with temps like that during lights on, you could add co2 and not have to change anything!!! Do it!!......Just do it!!

Now we're talking! CO2 that would be great if I could seal the room and keep those temps.

 

[flat9]

Well co2 doesn't seem like an option to me because you already have temp issues and unless you want to constantly run co2 out the window, your temps would increase as a result of sealing the room and not exhausting the heat. So either way I think you gotta solve the heat issues.

The temperature-controlled intake fan thing would only be an on/off but unless you're sleeping next to your flower room I don't know why it would matter. That unit is also programmable such that you can have different temps at different times, which is useful in that some strains get some great colors in the flowers if the night temps drop significantly.

 

[flat9]

Btw you can find a nice cheap 240 cfm fan that may do the job on the intake for about 25 bucks:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B005KMTYFK/

 

[FunkJungle]

Yeah the CO2 comment was more of a joke. If I were able to seal the room that would be great, but without an ac I don't see that being an option.

Some great info thanks flat9. If it turns out that I'm unable to seal the window completely I think I might grab one of those temperature controllers. They are inexpensive and seem to be very useful.

What I'm hoping I can do is filter the air throughout the apartment and draw my intake air from the apartment, so that I'm not wasting heat by sending it outside.

But the apartment is set at 75 and I'm not able to change that unfortunately. I know I can expect a temperature increase when lights are on, but if I have enough airflow I'm wondering if I can minimize it enough to still have a healthy productive room.

I'm going through some threads now to see what other similar setups have going on.

 

[FunkJungle]

OK so after some researching I now see that the best thing to do is go with flat9's recommendation of the thermostat control and 250 cfm fan.

Thank you so much man! My girls are gonna be very comfortable now.

I'll post an update once it is all set up and running.

 

[FunkJungle]

Items ordered and on the way.

 

[flat9]

Good luck!

Also, regarding the acrylic thing, I'm not sure where you're located, but I was able to build a very nice solution by ordering a piece from TAP plastics (if there's one near you, check them out). I gave them the dimensions I needed (58" tall by 10" wide -- horizontal sliding window) and also had them cut two 6" holes in there -- one for exhaust and one for intake. The piece I ordered was 1/4" thick (which gives it a little flex for getting in and out of the window which is helpful). All said, with duct flanges installed (they could probably do this for you too but I just did it myself), I think I paid about 85 dollars. So yeah, it's a nice little solution in that you seal up the room within which your tents reside and send the heat directly out the window, and also can suck cooler air in. If you still run into some problems with respect to controlling temps, I think this will help...

 

[SirStynkalot]

Btw you can find a nice cheap 240 cfm fan that may do the job on the intake for about 25 bucks:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B005KMTYFK/

That's a booster fan. You can't use that style for an intake. They're designed for supplementary flow along long stretches of ducting, not to push air from a standstill. That's why they're called "duct booster fans." The suggestion to use one as your primary intake was horrible advice.

It's also not a part you have to order online - they stock em at Home DePot in a variety of sizes.

If what you're trying doesn't work and you're anxious about posting pictures of your op publicly, you're welcome to hit me up in PMs and send me real pictures there (and I can delete them after I help you). I'll walk you through how to calculate air circulation rates and how to regulate out your day/night temps a bit better. In the alternative, like I said before all the information for calculating that stuff is in Jorge Cervantes' Bible (my reference book of choice) and on this forum. As it is though I can't give you any better information than I already have without pics. Ya get privacy, results, or no studying. Pick two.