Snype's Guide To RDWC - Part 1 - Featuring Chemdog Double Diesel & 2,000 Watts!

[sahdgrower]

Heya Snype,

I did build your system as you detailed with only a few minor modifications. The biggest of which was using uniseals and that didn't work out too well. However I am really curious from to know, why not use square buckets? Also do you see any problem using no hub couplings instead of unions? A little more difficult on and off but they are a lot cheaper which would allow me to put them between every connection so the whole system would be easy to take apart and add more buckets to (as I intend to do down the line). Does it annoy you when people keep trying to ask you questions about your design? I have read a lot of your posts and you seem to tolerate newbie idiocy well.

As it stands in my stem the UC is not that strong. I have a 400gph pump on a five bucket system. Maybe I am worrying for nothing but I wanted to enhance water circulation.

 

[sahdgrower]

Also wanted to add. My tap water is PH of about 9. Yes 9. I didn't believe it for days but it is true. I know you use tap water, should I just use this and ph down the hell out of it? Or is RO filtration called for in this case? I have to add a shitload of ph down to get it in the right range. Any other ideas for lowering the PH? Peat moss in my control????

 

[paperchaser825]

Doesn't Clorox break down into just salt and water? If so isn't the "residue" just salt?

 

[paperchaser825]

Preliminary testing says there isn't a storage tote out there that won't bend under full water load. The bucket is made of strong enough stuff as to not flex much at all. So unless I find a tote that has the wall strength of the Lowe's buckets, it's a no go.

 

[Snypette]

sahdgrower: getting a chlorine meter will solve the problem and eliminate all future problems. we paid $300 but i think it is lab grade. i think there are much cheaper ones under $50 you can find if you would rather go that route. probably even ebay. either way it is well worth the investment!

 

[doneit]

This the one i just bought.. seems to work well.

Without a meter your wasting your time.. you must be able to gauge accurately the ppm, i tried using bleach/shock in the past without a meter.. results were not very good.

So far so good now with an accurate reading and constant levels... Thanks again snype!


http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B003IKNJN4/ref=oh_details_o00_s00_i00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

 

[Snype]

Heya Snype,

I did build your system as you detailed with only a few minor modifications. The biggest of which was using uniseals and that didn't work out too well. However I am really curious from to know, why not use square buckets? Also do you see any problem using no hub couplings instead of unions? A little more difficult on and off but they are a lot cheaper which would allow me to put them between every connection so the whole system would be easy to take apart and add more buckets to (as I intend to do down the line). Does it annoy you when people keep trying to ask you questions about your design? I have read a lot of your posts and you seem to tolerate newbie idiocy well.

As it stands in my stem the UC is not that strong. I have a 400gph pump on a five bucket system. Maybe I am worrying for nothing but I wanted to enhance water circulation.

Id love to use sqare buckets but havent found a good solution as cheap as the RDWC system in my tutorial. I find that the amount of water that it holds is good but it would be nice if the buckets could hold another 2 gallons each. A top off rez connected via a float valve solves that problem though.

As far as your fitting, if it works then use it instead of the unions if thats what its made for and they come in the correct size.

As far as your pump circulation rates, the rates I put in the tutorial is a good range to be in. Any bigger on the pumps and its easy to pull roots through your In-Line manifolds.

Also wanted to add. My tap water is PH of about 9. Yes 9. I didn't believe it for days but it is true. I know you use tap water, should I just use this and ph down the hell out of it? Or is RO filtration called for in this case? I have to add a shitload of ph down to get it in the right range. Any other ideas for lowering the PH? Peat moss in my control????

My tap water is over 8 and my GH pH down works fine for me. Maybe your brand contains more water or maybe we have different ideas of what a lot of pH down is.

Doesn't Clorox break down into just salt and water? If so isn't the "residue" just salt?

No idea

This the one i just bought.. seems to work well.b

Without a meter your wasting your time.. you must be able to gauge accurately the ppm, i tried using bleach/shock in the past without a meter.. results were not very good.

So far so good now with an accurate reading and constant levels... Thanks again snype!


http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B003IKNJN4/ref=oh_details_o00_s00_i00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Nice! Im glad the readings your meter is giving is making sense. Data is one of the keys to success when problems occur.

 

[sahdgrower]

Yep Snypette I am on it. Going to buy chlorine meter asap. Per Clorox website it does indeed break down to salt and in a relatively short amount of time.

Thanks Snype I will rest easy. I have dialed in my PH and my nutes and the system is kickin now. First batch of cuttings are just miserable so I got reinforcements today! Also bought 10 TGA Subcool Vortex seeds. I will pick the best one and make it a Mom.

Well I hate to ask for stuff without giving back and clearly I cannot yet contribute knowledge on the growing subject so I leave you all with a joke.

All the parts of the body are arguing about who is the boss. The Heart says "I pump the life blood here, I am clearly the boss." The Lungs says "I draw the air we breathe I am clearly the boss". The Brain says "I do all the thinking, I am clearly the boss". This continues for a while with each part arguing their case and thinking that they were the clear most important and therefore the boss. After a while the butthole chimes in, in a high and squeeky voice "Um guys, hate to tell you this but I am the boss! Without me....."

AHAHAHHAH everyone interrupts. "You are a stinky smelly anus! How could you possibly be the boss?"

"I'll show you!" says the 'ol bunghole and everyone continues to laugh except the butthole. You see he got real angry and closed up as tight as could be. Everyone laughed thinking it was like a 4 yr old holding his breath. But after a couple days, the stomach says "Hey guys maybe we should let the butt be boss.... I am not feeling so well"

Another couple of days and each and every body part feels so bad from not having made a bowel movement that they are ready to concede victory and say

"Ok Butthole you are the BOSS. Now please oh please take a shit!"

And he did and everyone felt much better, especially the butthole who now unanimously was declared the boss.

The moral of the story is all you have to do to be the boss is be an asshole who doesn't do shit.

 

[poohdo]

Hey Snype whats the latest on the washers? Sorry if aI missed it somewhere. I am excited to get this build on and wanted to get those first.


Thanks

 

[Snypette]

you will be glad you did and LOL

Yep Snypette I am on it. Going to buy chlorine meter asap. Per Clorox website it does indeed break down to salt and in a relatively short amount of time.

Thanks Snype I will rest easy. I have dialed in my PH and my nutes and the system is kickin now. First batch of cuttings are just miserable so I got reinforcements today! Also bought 10 TGA Subcool Vortex seeds. I will pick the best one and make it a Mom.

Well I hate to ask for stuff without giving back and clearly I cannot yet contribute knowledge on the growing subject so I leave you all with a joke.

All the parts of the body are arguing about who is the boss. The Heart says "I pump the life blood here, I am clearly the boss." The Lungs says "I draw the air we breathe I am clearly the boss". The Brain says "I do all the thinking, I am clearly the boss". This continues for a while with each part arguing their case and thinking that they were the clear most important and therefore the boss. After a while the butthole chimes in, in a high and squeeky voice "Um guys, hate to tell you this but I am the boss! Without me....."

AHAHAHHAH everyone interrupts. "You are a stinky smelly anus! How could you possibly be the boss?"

"I'll show you!" says the 'ol bunghole and everyone continues to laugh except the butthole. You see he got real angry and closed up as tight as could be. Everyone laughed thinking it was like a 4 yr old holding his breath. But after a couple days, the stomach says "Hey guys maybe we should let the butt be boss.... I am not feeling so well"

Another couple of days and each and every body part feels so bad from not having made a bowel movement that they are ready to concede victory and say

"Ok Butthole you are the BOSS. Now please oh please take a shit!"

And he did and everyone felt much better, especially the butthole who now unanimously was declared the boss.

The moral of the story is all you have to do to be the boss is be an asshole who doesn't do shit.

 

[sahdgrower]

So I finally have my room goin full steam. I built a "Veg-A" Ebb and flow system using a couple 10 gallon totes and get this I dug out of my basement a Hydrofarm Quantum 4 Tray Slab system that I used to grow in 20 years ago (no b.s. 20yrs.) So I cleaned up the reservoir and get this, the pump still works! Voila free ebb and flow system. See if I can't attach a couple pics here.

So in talking about fluid dynamics and seeing my system run I have really been thinking. I saw BennyWeeds post and it is very similar to what I had in mind (see my illustration in earlier post). So my questions are these, what is the advantage/disadvantage to using larger containers? Would it not be optimum to direct the UC to reach all corners of all buckets? My current system really relies on the airstones to ensure the water moves enough. I had the airstone out of one of my buckets and the water seemed to begin to stagnate and caused me to do a complete system cleanout and flush. To counteract this I thought of several ideas, from putting elbows on the inlets and outlets in each bucket to force water out of the straight path, Adding and additional pump to waterfall to each bucket, or simply waterfall to each bucket. I also thought of building the system on pallets (easy to find for free around me) and build the system with shower drains mounted to the bottom of the bucket and the lines run in the skeleton of the pallet. would raise the system height a few inches.

Also in my idea which bennyweed did not do is to put 2 plants in each of those massive 27 gallon totes. Maybe even 3? If I did so would I need to separate the root zones of each plant with an internal divider or would it be ok for them to intermingle?

I have seen some people omit the airstones altogether using waterfall but it was just on youtube I think. So I would like your opinion. Wouldn't it be better if we could eliminate a pump and therefore more noise, moving parts, heat, cost etc.? Is that all offset by the increase in size of the water pump that would be needed? Would an increase in size be needed? I have noticed different effects on my water flow. I reduced the size of the outlet in order to get a more pressurized stream thinking that will introduce more air. Is that true at all? Would it be better to really reduce the stream to a series of pinholes which would shoot into the water? Maybe a length of PVC with several small holes drilled into it and capped at the end?

Probably too many questions for one post, and I know lots of these have probably been answered but I do not recollect Snype specifically addressing these questions and since I am modeling my grow on Snypes design I figured I would ask.

 

[sahdgrower]

some pics

some pics

So here is my dwc I used a tote because I ruined too many buckets. Interesting side not to me, I attached my drain spigot differently than you and when I open it with the pump running no water will come out but the flow rate into the control bucket increases significantly. I leave it open always and when I want to drain the system I put a cap on the outlet in the control.

Also here is my 20 year old hydrofarm quantum reservoir and pump still kickin!

The healthy looking cuttings in the veg A are Blackberry Kush and the sickly looking ones in front are 2 Vortex and 2 Platinum Cookies. The 2 Sickly looking ones in the DWC are both Blackberry as well and they were the first ones I got. One is really starting to recover and take off.

 

[Snype]

So I finally have my room goin full steam. I built a "Veg-A" Ebb and flow system using a couple 10 gallon totes and get this I dug out of my basement a Hydrofarm Quantum 4 Tray Slab system that I used to grow in 20 years ago (no b.s. 20yrs.) So I cleaned up the reservoir and get this, the pump still works! Voila free ebb and flow system. See if I can't attach a couple pics here.

So in talking about fluid dynamics and seeing my system run I have really been thinking. I saw BennyWeeds post and it is very similar to what I had in mind (see my illustration in earlier post). So my questions are these, what is the advantage/disadvantage to using larger containers? Would it not be optimum to direct the UC to reach all corners of all buckets? My current system really relies on the airstones to ensure the water moves enough. I had the airstone out of one of my buckets and the water seemed to begin to stagnate and caused me to do a complete system cleanout and flush. To counteract this I thought of several ideas, from putting elbows on the inlets and outlets in each bucket to force water out of the straight path, Adding and additional pump to waterfall to each bucket, or simply waterfall to each bucket. I also thought of building the system on pallets (easy to find for free around me) and build the system with shower drains mounted to the bottom of the bucket and the lines run in the skeleton of the pallet. would raise the system height a few inches.

Also in my idea which bennyweed did not do is to put 2 plants in each of those massive 27 gallon totes. Maybe even 3? If I did so would I need to separate the root zones of each plant with an internal divider or would it be ok for them to intermingle?

I have seen some people omit the airstones altogether using waterfall but it was just on youtube I think. So I would like your opinion. Wouldn't it be better if we could eliminate a pump and therefore more noise, moving parts, heat, cost etc.? Is that all offset by the increase in size of the water pump that would be needed? Would an increase in size be needed? I have noticed different effects on my water flow. I reduced the size of the outlet in order to get a more pressurized stream thinking that will introduce more air. Is that true at all? Would it be better to really reduce the stream to a series of pinholes which would shoot into the water? Maybe a length of PVC with several small holes drilled into it and capped at the end?

Probably too many questions for one post, and I know lots of these have probably been answered but I do not recollect Snype specifically addressing these questions and since I am modeling my grow on Snypes design I figured I would ask.

A couple of years ago did a lot of testing with my Dissolved Oxygen meter and that is how I determined my specific rates. Sure I would like to eliminate a pump but then you would have to add more power to the other pump for a sufficient DO from the waterfall. That's the main problem with bigger containers. In my personal 10 plant system for 2,000 watts, ive been able to take both pumps down a little so that should help folks keep costs down.

The great thing about these methods of growing is that you can experiment and see what works for you.

 

[sahdgrower]

So in your testing did you ever notice any correlation Between the obvious visual water splash and bubbles vs. The actual DO produced. For example some airstone produce very fine bubbles or the opposite extreme would be the air hose with the airstone removed which would produce a very large and vigorous bubble. Logically in my mind either would add tons of DO. But logic doesn't always apply to physics.

 

[Snype]

So in your testing did you ever notice any correlation Between the obvious visual water splash and bubbles vs. The actual DO produced. For example some airstone produce very fine bubbles or the opposite extreme would be the air hose with the airstone removed which would produce a very large and vigorous bubble. Logically in my mind either would add tons of DO. But logic doesn't always apply to physics.

The waterfall / air stone test showed me that an air stone was pointless if you had the right waterfall. I use this waterfall technique in my E&F systems by removing the riser and drain fitting. The water splash adds plenty of DO but you need a bigger pump to flood the tray because the water drains fast with no riser or fitting.

Trying to accomplish this technique in RDWC may be tough with many big containers. Thats why I use smaller buckets with air stones. Not saying my way is the only way but it may be the biggest bang for your buck.

 

[sahdgrower]

So I have been reading a bit on fluid dynamics. A little difficult for me to really use the info though since I cannot test my hypotheses. I know you have a really good DO meter but do you know if the budget meters will give me adequately reliable measurements for me to actually do comparison tests between different delivery/aeration systems?

Also I am still a little unclear as to your opinion on bigger containers. Am I completely barking up the wrong tree? I figure if I have 2 plants in one 27 gallon container that will give much more root space than a 5gallon per plant. Also I am thinking the larger amount of water I have will make all changes less extreme and thus give me better control of PH, TDS and water temp. Supposing I can overcome the challenges of larger containers i.e. adequate DO and water circulation are there any downsides I am missing?

Last thing, did you happen to see my plants on Bennyweeds thread? They are looking pitiful and I am not sure why. Would value your opinion.

Thanks tons people! Love this forum.

 

[sahdgrower]

I just scored a 4' 6 tube T5 for $70 off Craigslist. New in box and with bulbs! I will be using it eventually for my moms but any reason I shouldn't use it next to my 600hps?

 

[sahdgrower]

Just realized you can easily add a gallon or two to each bucket by adding the top ring of another bucket (cut off top few inches). Doesn't work as well with Lowes buckets as they stack neater than standard 5 gallons but you could still add the standard 5 gallon to a Lowes base and increase the pot size to 7 gallon give or take for about $3/per

 

[JamesFarmer]

First let me give a sincere THANK YOU!! for the contributions from Snype and others who have been so very generous in sharing with us.

After seeing the level of success that Snype & others have experienced I decided to switch from "Lucas Formula" to Snype's recommended regimen. I am having some issues getting my nute levels correct. To establish a full strength baseline I mixed up 2 gallons of nute solution consisting of:

2 gallons RO water
12ml GH Micro
18ml GH Bloom

I measured 5.2pH - 1.4EC - 650ppm (.5scale) on the baseline sample. I wanted to start a bit light on the nutes and work up to a proper level where I would see a slow rise in pH and a slow decline in TDS.

Below is a log of activity & measurements over 2+weeks:

Before After
Date Time pH EC/TDS Level Action pH EC/TDS Level
11/27 Filled 52gallons RO + 240/360ml nutes + 20 ml PH up + 2ml Cl 5.9 500.0 -2.5
12/4 10:00 5.4 405.0 -4.5 Out of town 6 days. Returned to find nute small leak
12/4 11:00 5.5 0.7 -4.5 Switched to new EC meter
12/5 10:00 5.6 0.8 -4.5 Added 10 gallons RO 5.7 0.6 -3.0
12/5 11:00 5.7 0.6 -3.5 Added 60/90ml nutes 5.5 0.9 -3.0
12/5 11:30 5.5 0.9 -3.0 Added 10ml PH up 5.9 0.9 -3.0
12/6 16:00 5.8 0.8/435 -3.5 (using both EC & TDS meters EC/TDS)
12/7 14:00 5.4 0.9/449 -3.7 Added 10ml PH up + 2ml Chlorine 5.8 .9/441
12/8 18:00 5.8 0.9/460 -4.0
12/9 10:00 5.7 .8/440 -4.2 Younger plants showing excessive nitrogen
12/9 16:00 5.7 .9/430 -4.2 Added 6 gallons RO 5.9 .8/373 -3.5
12/10 14:00 6.0 0.7/372 -4.0
12/11 11:00 6.1 .7/368 -4.2
12/12 12:00 6.1 .7/358 -4.5


I am concerned that to achieve the behavior I expected I am running about 60% strength and flirting with excess Nitrogen.

Any clue what I am missing here? I ran 650-1100ppm when running Lucas and had reasonable success. I am a bit confused....

 

[Snype]

First let me give a sincere THANK YOU!! for the contributions from Snype and others who have been so very generous in sharing with us.

After seeing the level of success that Snype & others have experienced I decided to switch from "Lucas Formula" to Snype's recommended regimen. I am having some issues getting my nute levels correct. To establish a full strength baseline I mixed up 2 gallons of nute solution consisting of:

2 gallons RO water
12ml GH Micro
18ml GH Bloom

I measured 5.2pH - 1.4EC - 650ppm (.5scale) on the baseline sample. I wanted to start a bit light on the nutes and work up to a proper level where I would see a slow rise in pH and a slow decline in TDS.

Below is a log of activity & measurements over 2+weeks:

Before After
Date Time pH EC/TDS Level Action pH EC/TDS Level
11/27 Filled 52gallons RO + 240/360ml nutes + 20 ml PH up + 2ml Cl 5.9 500.0 -2.5
12/4 10:00 5.4 405.0 -4.5 Out of town 6 days. Returned to find nute small leak
12/4 11:00 5.5 0.7 -4.5 Switched to new EC meter
12/5 10:00 5.6 0.8 -4.5 Added 10 gallons RO 5.7 0.6 -3.0
12/5 11:00 5.7 0.6 -3.5 Added 60/90ml nutes 5.5 0.9 -3.0
12/5 11:30 5.5 0.9 -3.0 Added 10ml PH up 5.9 0.9 -3.0
12/6 16:00 5.8 0.8/435 -3.5 (using both EC & TDS meters EC/TDS)
12/7 14:00 5.4 0.9/449 -3.7 Added 10ml PH up + 2ml Chlorine 5.8 .9/441
12/8 18:00 5.8 0.9/460 -4.0
12/9 10:00 5.7 .8/440 -4.2 Younger plants showing excessive nitrogen
12/9 16:00 5.7 .9/430 -4.2 Added 6 gallons RO 5.9 .8/373 -3.5
12/10 14:00 6.0 0.7/372 -4.0
12/11 11:00 6.1 .7/368 -4.2
12/12 12:00 6.1 .7/358 -4.5


I am concerned that to achieve the behavior I expected I am running about 60% strength and flirting with excess Nitrogen.

Any clue what I am missing here? I ran 650-1100ppm when running Lucas and had reasonable success. I am a bit confused....

This is all strain dependant. My real formula is 1 part micro to 1.5 parts bloom. For younger plants I usually use 4 mL micro and 6 mL bloom. With what you are saying, this may suit you better.