Possible seedling deficiency/lockout? Please Help

[Elements001]

Left-Right: 3 days ago before feed, today, height from t5, placement in tent

Hello all and thank you for taking your time to look at this. I just recently started growing here again after about a 10 year break, and I'm having some minor issues with one plant right now at the moment.
She is about 3 weeks old (25 days to be exact), and I transplanted her about a week and a half ago from a small red plastic cup into a 2-3 gal smart pot using Botanicares Slacker Coco Coir hybrid Moisture mix. I got this for free at my local grow store when I purchased my light and tent, so i figured id give it a shot.
She was doing great in the plastic cup under the t5 a couple weeks ago, then started to slow down so I transplanted her since cup was only about half full. The soil I was using in the cup was actually a tiny bit of old miracle grow I had left in the garage. I've been reading up a bit on coco coir and have seen possible issues with not flushing the medium prior to potting, which i did not. However, this is not just coco coir, it is a hybrid mixture (Ingredients: CocoGro® High Pith Coconut Coir, Hydrolite® (Silica Based Rock), Rice Hulls, Perlite, Compost, Earthworm Castings, Bat Guano, Alfalfa Meal, Montmorillonite, Seaweed, Yucca Extract, Humic Acid, Trichoderma Fungi.).
I currently do not have a ppm meter or PH pen, I did order a cheap shaker PH test that should come in the mail in a day or so, and I will be getting a digital one shortly.
I fed her about a half strength feeding of 5mL per gal of Roots Organic:Buddha Grow about 3 days ago and she has not responded at all.
After transplanting her I put her under the 400 W MH thinking she would love it and take off. After about a week of seeing little to no progress, I moved her back under the 2 24" 14w T5 I have. Her top is about 2 inches from the light, and the pot is about 8 inches from it.
I have the feeling that it is either:

-PH lockout causing none of the available Nirtogen to be absorbed

-Low temperatures in the root zone causing its own lockout (i feel like the smart pot does not retain any heat and after watering I wonder if the roots are getting to cold at the bottom of the tent, about 3' below the 400W MH, but still quite close to the t5

-Possible Overwatering - even though I have let the soil go near bone dry twice to try and encourage root growth.

-Possibly transplanted too early/into to large of a pot? (Had a friend come over to take a look and her though that may have caused an issue, even though I've never experienced that before)


How long has this problem been going on?-8 Days
What STRAIN are you growing?-Bagseed
What was the establishing technique? (seed or clone?)-Seed
What is the age of your plants?-26 Days
How long have they been in the soil mixture they are in now?-12-14 Days
Were they in the same mixture when they were seedlings/smaller plant? If not, what mixture were they in before? -NO-Stared in plastic cup with general hardware store soil
How Tall are the plants?-6"
What PHASE (seedling, vegetative or flower) are the plants in? Seedling-Veg
What Technique are you using? (SOG, SCROG etc)-None Currently
What size pots are you using? (Include how many subjects to pot)2-3 Gallon Aurora Smart Pot
What substrate/medium are you using? What brand of soil mixture are you using?(percentage of perlite, vermiculite...etc?)-Botanicare Slacker Moisture formula (Hybrid coco coir mixture: Ingredients: CocoGro® High Pith Coconut Coir, Hydrolite® (Silica Based Rock), Rice Hulls, Perlite, Compost, Earthworm Castings, Bat Guano, Alfalfa Meal, Montmorillonite, Seaweed, Yucca Extract, Humic Acid, Trichoderma Fungi.
What brand Nutrient's are you using?-Roots Organic: Buddha grow NPK: 2.0-0.25-1.5
How much of each nutrient are you using with how much water? *Knowing the brand is very helpful*-5mL per gallon, fed 3 days ago
How often are you feeding?Only once so far
If flowering, when did you switch over to using Bloom nutrients?N/A
What order are you mixing your nutrients? (example: veg nutes 1st, bloom 2nd ect)N/A
What is the TDS/EC/PPM of your nutrients used?Not Known
What is the pH of the "RUN-OFF"?Not Known
How often are you testing pH/ppm/EC/TDS? Never(still waiting to get a meter)
What method of pH test was administered? Using Strips? pH pen?N/A
How often are you watering?Whenever soil feels dry about an iinch or so down
When was your last feeding and how often are you feeding?-3 Days Ago, first feed
What size bulb are you using?-T5, then 400w MH, now back under the t5 (2 24" 14W bulbs, 2 inches from top of plant)
How old is your bulbs?2 Months
What is the distance to the canopy? 2-3"
What is your RH Factor? (Relative Humidity) 65%
What is the canopy temperature? 76F
What is the Day/Night Temp? (Include fluctuation range)72.8-76.4F
What is the current Air Flow? (cfm etc...) marginal at best, noting in place at the moment. in 3x4x8 grow tent with air vents in place)
Tell us about your ventilation, intake exhaust and when its running and not running ? small 4" desk fan inside of the duct connectiong to the 400W MH 3 feet above the t5 and seedling. Completely independent from the air in the tent itself)
Is the fan blowing directly at plants?-No
Is the grow substrate constantly wet or moist?Probably wetter than it should be
Is your water HARD or SOFT?-Distilled - unknown
What water are you using? Reverse Osmosis (RO)? Tap? Bottled? Well water? Distilled? Mineral Water?-Distilled
If using tap water, what is the ppm/EC/TDS of the water right out of the tap?(Only if you have a tds pen)
If using RO,Distilled,mineral water, what is the ppm/EC/TDS without any additives?(Only if you have a tds pen)-Unknown
Are you using water from a water softener? -No
Has plant been recently pruned, cloned or pinched?-No
Have any pest chemicals been used? If so what and when? -No
Are plant's infected with pest's? -No


Again, thank you very much for any and all info on what could be causing this. Trying to keep my ego in check and become humble to the whole growing expierence again, so please throw any and all ideas out there.

 

[Elements001]

update

update

So i went and got a cheap shaker test for PH as well as some pH up and pH down. Found out my distilled water is at a maximum of 5, so I'm waiting for the pot to dry out and then I guess the best thing to do would be to give a small flush with ph adjusted water at about 6.5? Not really sure what the best course of action is at this point, but I am almost certain it is a ph Lockout. Also expierencing this with a new seedling in the same medium.
Any and all help would be greatly appreciated, thank you.

-Should I just flush with pH adjusted water, or give a small nutrient feed as well??

 

[X_man]

She looks hungry and your soil mix should have plenty of food. Sooo, I'm thinking like you that it's a lockout from the ph.

I've got the same problem with my seedlings.

My biggest issue is over-watering I believe. plus the fact my water source is now a running spring. unknown ph

Used to buy store bought Spring Water and that did much better.
Thinking of going back to that water and just see if it helps perk them up.

it's the water imo

 

[SpicySativa]

The pH of distillers water is meaningless. It has essentially zero dissolved solids, and therefore essentially zero buffering ability. What that means is that it takes VERY LITTLE to change the distilled water's pH. The second a drop of that distilled water touches your soil, it's pH is no longer 5; it's something closer to the pH of your soil.

In other words, if you must use distilled water for whatever reason, don't worry about adjusting it's pH. You'll cause more problems than you solve.

 

[Elements001]

Thank you SpicySativa and X Man for the feedback.
I really think it is the pH. Another set of leaves just died, and some brown spotting is occuring on a new leaf on the new growth.
I just bought some pH up and pH down, and wow, it realy doesnt take much to adjust the pH of the distilled water. I flushed her with a gallon of pH 6.5 water, then tested then run off and it was at about 5. Should I continue to flush untill the pH of the run off gets closer to 6.0-6.5?
Also, when doing so, would it be ok to use a pH of say 7.0-7.5 per one gal, flush with that, and hopefully that shouldnt over compensate it? Dirt was very dry before the flush, thinking I will at least flush with another .5 to 1.0 gal of 6.5 pH water right now.
thanks again for helping out

p.s. Is there anything else the would be preferable over distilled store bought water? I'm only growing 3 plants right now so I dont mind spending money on the store bought water since my tap water is absolute garbage that gives me horrendous headaches and almost comes out foggy. pH pen and ppm/TDS meter coming within 2 weeks with next paycheck.

 

[Elements001]

flushed about another half gallon of 7.0 water and the run off was at about 5.5 after wards. Im not sure what the ideal run off ph should be, but im not really comfortable running any more water through her right now, but Im hoping this will at least make a noticable difference.

 

[X_man]

hope it's ok to post this link mods. It has some good info about water levels in containers.

http://forums2.gardenweb.com/forums/load/contain/msg0316064615891.html?14

 

[Elements001]

picture

picture

sorry for the 3 posts, running around too much right now.

 

[Midnight Tokar]

You didn't say if you let your soil sit and "cook" for a month or so before putting your plants in it. With all those organic ingredients the soil really needs to get conditioned by letting all those organics start breaking down. Otherwise it can get too hot for your plants roots. Also, with organic soil like that you really have no need to PH your water, especially Distilled or RO water (as already mentioned). Did you put any Dolomite Lime, Crushed Oyster shell or similar in your soil?

 

[Elements001]

No, I didnt even think of that really unfourtunately.. The medium came for free with the tent and light i purchased, and when I opened it up it just felt so nice in my hands that I thought it would be perfect. I'm just now learning the importance of finding a good soil mixture and not just relying on whats givin in any one bag.
I really should have put more thought it but got so excited to grow again and the first plant that I transplanted into this medium was doing so well I figured the seedlings would take to it just as well.

Any suggestings for a good soil mix for someone wanting to stick to more organics?

Thank you Midnight Tokar, I did not let my soil "cook" at all (assumig by cook you mean soaking the soil and letting it sit for awhile to let everything sort of mix and activate). The soil wasnt bone dry by any means, but felt as though there was moisture in it at first. Enough so in fact that I thought I may not even need to water at all for a day at first after transplant, but I did and it took up a good amount of water.
Does the Dolomite lime also help with cal/mag issues, or is the something else entirely?

And also, is a run of pH of about 5.0-6.0 an acceptable range at this point in growth?

Thank you all so much for the input so far. Feeling much more confident about getting this solved with the generous help of all of you!

 

[Midnight Tokar]

OK, O might have misunderstood you. It looks like you listed the ingredients in the mix you bought, O thought you added all those ingredients to the coco coir you bought. If it was all in the bag you bought it will be ready to plant in as is. Yep, dolomite has both calcium and magnesium and that's how it buffers your soils PH to around 7.0, especially good for Peat based soil.
As mentioned you don't need to worry about PHing Distilled or RO water as there is so little in it, it will quickly become whatever PH your soil is. You'd want your run off to be close to 6.4 or so.

 

[Elements001]

Right on man, yeah they're all included pre mixed in the bag. Its says on their site its pre buffered and pH balanced, but not so much in this case. My run off was at maybe 5.5, probably closer to 5.0 (just going by color shaker test) after flushing with my 6.5 distilled earlier.
Is there anything i can throw in the next watering the help raise the pH of the soil up close to 6.5 - 7.0? Is there like a liquid dolomite concoction I could make, or something like epsom salts perhaps?

 

[Midnight Tokar]

I have at times in the past mixed a teaspoon of Dolomite in with a gallon of water and shake well. You'll need to keep agitating it as you use as the lime will settle. Oh, and the lime needs to be powdered like flour.

 

[StChristopher]

Your growing in coco not soil...your ph should be 5.8 but 5.8-6.3 is your best range.

By the looks your Md def, if getting your ph up to 5.8 dosent green your girls up try a little Epson salt.

As far as over watering goes....its coco and smart pots.....I use the same and drip feed with my light cycle (12 on 12 off) . Hard to over water coco (in smart pots)

 

[Elements001]

yeah, this is definently a lockout i believe. getting worse everyday. have a new seedling about 1.5 weeks in and same thing happening. soil is too acidic I believe, and the other day I tested a different gal of distilled water and it was only at a pH of 4.0.
Im somewhat of a panic/fuck it, i flushed out my 1.5 week old seedling with my tap water which runs at about an 8.0 - 8.5 pH. flushed her a tiny bit in her little red plastic cup and got the run off to about 6.5 pH. Hopefully that will show somewhat of an improvement and I guess ill just use tap water for the first month or so. I guess not too sure I like this medium. Think Im going to go back to an all purpose soil mix, I find that much easier for my novice abilites and income at the moment. Its odd though, because I have another plant I started in some old crappy miracle grow, then transplanted it from that 2.5 gal pot to a 5 gal pot with the new medium and it is absolutely loving it like nothing ive seen. just flipped her 3 days ago, and as far as I can tell shes doing great.

Growing is such a humbling expierence. Takes so much to get things really dialed in. Was a lot easier ten years ago when my Dad could help me with all this. Thank god for this site, because I'd be broke and have a bunch of dead plants without it!

Ah also, when using epsom slats, what is the recomended amount per gallon?

 

[Elements001]

Oh and I forgot to mention, I moved this one and my 1.5 week old seedling into another closet with 4 4' x2 bulb 40W flourescent lights (320W flourescent total). Shouldnt be any sort of light burn from that I believe. Temp stays about 78 and I have some clones in a dome doing great in there.

 

[StChristopher]

I loved coco and hated it lol. Really once you get it down you may never want to go back to anything else.

I use 1/8-1/4 tsp a gal. Now you have your ph in check give them a few days to see if they even need any epson. Your tap water may have enough already. If you were locked out that may be the only reason.

I'm sorry I can't explain better for you, not good at writing out my thoughts, but the best thing I can say is to check out the coco section. Their are a lot of good threads that can better explain how to use coco to its full extent.

The beauty of coco is you can treat it like soil, or you can really pump those girls up if you treat it like hydro.

Hope things work out remember only do 1 correction at a time. You will never know what actually fixed them if you started changing many things at once. Good luck

 

[Elements001]

Gotcha, will do. I have high hope for the coco, it just requires a bit more hands on approach than I was expecting at first (well this blend of coco/organics). The older one is looking quite bad, not sure if shes gonna make it, but she was a random seed i found. I didnt put any tap water into her because she was already so wet. Maybe I should just give her some tap now instead of waiting any longer. Pretty sure my tap has calcium in it making it so basic, just worried about drowning her out but not much else I can do now I suppose anyway right?

 

[StChristopher]

Well as much as we would like to see instant results we just have to let them do their thing. To much love can hurt them as well. Like I said I use the same soil & pot set up. Never have I had a problem with over watering and I water with drippers the whole time my lights are on.

Other may say different but for me and my garden, I find my Tap water (190ppm) to need 2ml of cal/mg =250ppm (base) but I have to say I use GH Flora sometimes I use floranova. I don't how much cal/mg your nutes has so you may need a little more or a little less. But if your using distled water only then for sure you should be adding some cal/mg back in.

 

[Elements001]

Ah, I see through my ignorance that I wasnt adding any calcium or magnesium whatsoever. The Nutrients I gave it were Roots Organic Buddha grow and there is no cal/mag in that, barely just nitrogen and trace amounts a few other things.
I just recently bought some of GH FloraNova Bloom 4-8-7 for my Bruce Banner that I just started to flower 6 days ago.
I transplanted the Bruce Banner into a 5 gallon pot of this coco mix from a 2.5 gal pot of soil. I started to notice a slight drop off in growth untill I bought the GH FloraNova Bloom and turned her. I instantly see the benefits of synthetics on a budget, working out so much better than the honestly half ass organic approach I was taking.
Getting some epsom salt and also dolomite lime and some more medium so I can properly wash and pH balance this time. Thought when it said was pre washed, buffered, and pH balanced itd work without anything else.


Or is this a lost cause already?