well if you were bored you could take purified water add soil soak,filter and measure your readings . giving you the current available soluables but nothing on the slow release. if you ever do this go back to hydro where ya belong
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Neem Oil question (how to mix it)
- Thread starter Cyklo
- Start date
well if you were bored you could take purified water add soil soak,filter and measure your readings . giving you the current available soluables but nothing on the slow release. if you ever do this go back to hydro where ya belong
use 1 teaspoon of neem to 1 litre or two pints of slightly warm water. few drops of soap and use a blender/smoothie maker to mix it. it stays in suspension pretty much indefinitely if you do it this way.
as for pH pens, ive always found them a useful bit of kit. Luckily i have a mind of my own and dont care if other organic growers disapprove.
VG
as for pH pens, ive always found them a useful bit of kit. Luckily i have a mind of my own and dont care if other organic growers disapprove.
VG
I must not have a mind of my own anymore.
oh im quite sure you have MHG, but i think the question of whether or not someone uses a pH pen is an irrelevance as to whether or not they are a good organic grower.
but then we dont all have to do it exactly the same way do we? as long as the results are good then there shouldnt be a problem.
by way of comparison, i have a temperature controlled fan that pretty much allows me to forget about temperature problems in my grow - but it doesnt mean i'll throw my thermometer away. - so just because organic soil is usually without pH problems doesnt mean i'll throw away my pH pen.
The last time i used it to good effect was to measure the pH of my soil (using spurr's method of mixing the soil with distilled water). it showed me my soil pH was a bit too high, so i went back and mixed it half and half with new soil made with gypsum instead of lime, and without any rock phosphate or similar liming agents added. This had a positive effect on my plants.
i disagree strongly with the idea that plants can completely control the pH in the rootzone. they may be able to influence the pH... but not control it ime - otherwise any type of plant would be happy in any type of soil and that is definitely not the case.
each to their own,
VG
but then we dont all have to do it exactly the same way do we? as long as the results are good then there shouldnt be a problem.
by way of comparison, i have a temperature controlled fan that pretty much allows me to forget about temperature problems in my grow - but it doesnt mean i'll throw my thermometer away. - so just because organic soil is usually without pH problems doesnt mean i'll throw away my pH pen.
The last time i used it to good effect was to measure the pH of my soil (using spurr's method of mixing the soil with distilled water). it showed me my soil pH was a bit too high, so i went back and mixed it half and half with new soil made with gypsum instead of lime, and without any rock phosphate or similar liming agents added. This had a positive effect on my plants.
i disagree strongly with the idea that plants can completely control the pH in the rootzone. they may be able to influence the pH... but not control it ime - otherwise any type of plant would be happy in any type of soil and that is definitely not the case.
each to their own,
VG
I used to use coco-wet/mild soap until I watched an oldtimer "make a neem oil martini".
1. Using a 32oz mason jar, fill it half way with "warm water" (15-30 seconds in microwave), add other ingredients, then add the oil last.
2. Seal with canning lid and shake well (think martini and count to 30). Cradling the bottle in a towel while shaking will prevents flying mason jars due to slippery, wet fingers.
3. Once it becomes emulsified, pour the mix in a bucket (half filled with water) and stir aggressively as you add the remaining water.
Occasionally it can take a few hours before I consume all the neem oil solution and on the solution surface, sometimes I see a little separation; no oil slicks--but just a wee bit of "scum-like" substance that disappears with some stirring.
I use Neem Oil mostly as a foliar spray--and have no reason/need to use it in the soil (glad it helps those that use it!). So...I am a little cautious of using soap....why?
Soaps can have a negative effect on the microherd and...if I can get the job done without it, why not?
BTW...I think everyone is trying to say the same thing--
The "rhizophere" is the soil/zone/area that surrounds the roots of the plant, including the microherd. Basically it is the stuff that clings to roots after being shaken. The PH of the rhizophere can be 2 points higher/lower than surrounding "bulk soil".
Why? Plant secretions/root exudates do many things, including changing the chemical environment of the rhizophere that causes a change in PH.
So can a plant (via plant secretions/root exudates) change the soil PH? No, but it is natural for a balanced soil's PH to gradually decrease over time. By definition, a decrease in soil PH means an increase in acidity. Common acidic sources are: fertilizers, mineralization and decomposition of organic matter.
Hence...the plant can not effect the PH of the "bulk soil", but it does effect the PH of the soil in the rhizophere zone.
Hope this helps, Cheers!
1. Using a 32oz mason jar, fill it half way with "warm water" (15-30 seconds in microwave), add other ingredients, then add the oil last.
2. Seal with canning lid and shake well (think martini and count to 30). Cradling the bottle in a towel while shaking will prevents flying mason jars due to slippery, wet fingers.
3. Once it becomes emulsified, pour the mix in a bucket (half filled with water) and stir aggressively as you add the remaining water.
Occasionally it can take a few hours before I consume all the neem oil solution and on the solution surface, sometimes I see a little separation; no oil slicks--but just a wee bit of "scum-like" substance that disappears with some stirring.
I use Neem Oil mostly as a foliar spray--and have no reason/need to use it in the soil (glad it helps those that use it!). So...I am a little cautious of using soap....why?
Soaps can have a negative effect on the microherd and...if I can get the job done without it, why not?
BTW...I think everyone is trying to say the same thing--
The "rhizophere" is the soil/zone/area that surrounds the roots of the plant, including the microherd. Basically it is the stuff that clings to roots after being shaken. The PH of the rhizophere can be 2 points higher/lower than surrounding "bulk soil".
Why? Plant secretions/root exudates do many things, including changing the chemical environment of the rhizophere that causes a change in PH.
So can a plant (via plant secretions/root exudates) change the soil PH? No, but it is natural for a balanced soil's PH to gradually decrease over time. By definition, a decrease in soil PH means an increase in acidity. Common acidic sources are: fertilizers, mineralization and decomposition of organic matter.
Hence...the plant can not effect the PH of the "bulk soil", but it does effect the PH of the soil in the rhizophere zone.
Hope this helps, Cheers!
As do I. But that doesn't change the fact that you don't need one to grow organic. And you also don't require a thermometer.... And you know there is a big difference there. Temperatures can swing dependent on location and environment very rapidly, having a high low indicator is good practice... and it is accurate and fool proof to use.
Ph meters and testing of "runoff" is not an accurate evaluation. Equally mixing water in a cup with soil isn't very accurate, especially without all of the background knowledge on soil and how it works.
Not at all like a thermometer.
As far as your scientific observation with your plants, this is how I read it.
I had soil, I added 50% new inputs and my plants were happy.
It's not a far stretch of the imagination to see how adding 50% new material might result in a positive effect on your soil..... The ph was and is irrelevant in that situation.
Gypsum is an awesome fertilizer!
While you use personal observation in your case for PH. Apparently scientific proof isn't enough for the rizosphere exlanation.
There are many studies on this, and I won't pretend to understand it all....
http://link.springer.com/static-content/lookinside/823/art%3A10.1007%2FBF02277359/000.png
As far as opinion goes, I just don't think that it's possible to simplify a living soil down to a number on a PH pen based on a scoop of soil and some water.
Doesn't matter if you have one, or if you use it for yourself, but in organic soil, without knowing everything that is going on, basing advice to other growers based off of a ph pen isn't good advice.
In hydro, it's much easier to make blanket statements about the PH and the nutrient absorptions.
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thanks eclipse i understand all that. the bulk soil and the rhizosphere will be a constant influence on each other though, including for pH.
some plants, calcicole species, can exude enough organic acids from their roots to thrive in soils that are lime rich and of a high pH, cannabis is not one of them afaik.
organic matter will help, but not solve the problem ime.
VG
some plants, calcicole species, can exude enough organic acids from their roots to thrive in soils that are lime rich and of a high pH, cannabis is not one of them afaik.
organic matter will help, but not solve the problem ime.
VG
What a can o worms haha.. Yeah I keep on learning.. How is that sick plant doing BTW?
hi again MHG, always nice to chat with you, i agree that you dont need a pH pen to grow organically, but like i said - i have always found it a useful tool... just as i have always found the notion that 'throwing away your pH pen will make you a better organic grower' kind of ridiculous. perhaps if i had come from a 'chem' background where the pen was a pain in my ass then i would see it differently.
how ever you want to spin my soil story, it was the reading on the pH meter that confirmed my suspicions and prompted me to change up the mix. By most peoples standards the plants looked great before, but i could see a positive difference in the way the plants responded throughout the cycle.
Likewise when i used to use tapwater that was very alkaline, i found that pH'ing my water with citric acid really helped.
To me it's about optimizing everything i can, rather that getting away with this or that just because good organic soil is pretty forgiving.
we all have an arsenal of ingredients, amendments, techniques and instruments that, combined, make us into a grower. Very few of those things are absolutely essential at the end of the day.
all that said, i cant say ive ever measured pH of my runoff because i dont see what that would really tell me.
cheers
VG
how ever you want to spin my soil story, it was the reading on the pH meter that confirmed my suspicions and prompted me to change up the mix. By most peoples standards the plants looked great before, but i could see a positive difference in the way the plants responded throughout the cycle.
Likewise when i used to use tapwater that was very alkaline, i found that pH'ing my water with citric acid really helped.
To me it's about optimizing everything i can, rather that getting away with this or that just because good organic soil is pretty forgiving.
we all have an arsenal of ingredients, amendments, techniques and instruments that, combined, make us into a grower. Very few of those things are absolutely essential at the end of the day.
all that said, i cant say ive ever measured pH of my runoff because i dont see what that would really tell me.
cheers
VG
When it's shaken very well, the neem and soap create an emulsion which does not separate to fast. For this pourposes I use a high speed hand blender : I use a tall plastic cup in which I pour the oil and the soap. I start the blender and pour the water drop by drop first, then more and more until you obtain a fine white foam and then a cloudy like emulsion . In that way the sprayer nozzle does not clog with neem (which tends to solidify when exposed to air).
I also add hot peppers, cinnamon and garlic for a stronger and repellent effect. For a real poisonous insecticide you can use tobacco tea (made from a few cigarettes boiled on the same amount of water). It kills many insects, but can be harmful for human skin and health so it's better to wear gloves and face mask when spraying.
Hot peppers can cause eye burns , so take extra care using them.
Don't preserve this foliar spray emultion. Use it right after preparation. Garlic tends to create slightly poisonous compounds when crushed and oxidized.
Tobacco Mosiac Virus? Would be worried about using cigarettes on anything
L
Luther Burbank
The occurrence of TMV in cannabis is near to zero. It's a real rarity, unless you believe that ridiculous FUD thread that had posters here convinced for years their relatively common variegation was tobacco mosaic virus.
Neem oil is now a proven fact that neem oil is systemic, I always 'felt' that ..meaning that the plant does drink up neem...making life hard for sap suckers yet not detectable in the toke,
feed early in life a teaspoon at each watering ...and be always bug and mold free
feed early in life a teaspoon at each watering ...and be always bug and mold free
