Ceramic Metal Halide (CMH)

[The OrigF/clred]

rives: "[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Quote:
Originally Posted by The OrigF/clred View Post
is anyone besides advanced offering these pkg'd w/ballast and hood?
Yes, both Cycloptics and E-Papillon offer complete fixtures, and I think a couple of other companies.


Yes, both Cycloptics and E-Papillon offer complete fixtures, and I think a couple of other companies. "

Rives - tks, i'd googled them and never turned those two up - maybe i need to polish my google fu

advanced tech's prices are outstanding, about half of the other vendors, but like others have stated, really poor communications and in fact, zero comm. Reading one poster had to file a dispute with paypal after six weeks just confirmed to me, when the svc is this poor before someone's gotten your coin, it is not going to get better after they have.

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[spiralsmurf]

I actually spoke with Thomas at Advancedtech lighting this morning several times. He responded to a generic email within minutes and then asked where he could call me. We had a lengthy discussion about their combo kit.

I have never given them a dime, and I actually might not because something else maybe panning out for me, but from my brief experience today, I didn't get the slightest concern that they wouldn't deliver. Just my $0.02.

 

[rives]

I wouldn't want to discourage anyone from working with Advanced because they seem to believe in their product line, offer great pricing, and some truly amazing deals at times. However, if you go back through this thread, you will see where their customer reviews have been all over the map. I think that they are a one-man shop, and when life interferes, business suffers. If you aren't in a big rush, no one can touch their pricing.

 

[The OrigF/clred]

tried some different search criteria, and found this outfit offering the 315W bulb, ballast, socket and hood (open) for $300 315W CMH light pack including hood http://www.seattlehydroponics.com/

scroll down a bit - they indicate they've been in business since 1981 but i have no experience with them

 

[rives]

Pretty crude looking stuff, but the price is pretty good. Habeeb bought a couple of the fixtures in the following link, and if I recall correctly he liked them pretty well except for the amount of heat that open fixtures kicked out (he'd been using LEDs for a long time, and got spoiled!).

http://growershouse.com/sun-system-lec-315-light-emitting-ceramic-mh-fixture-240v

Are you only interested in complete fixtures, or are you open to putting your own setup together?

 

[The OrigF/clred]

at the prices i'm seeing for complete setups, i'm more inclined to assembling my own - just a little trepidation at the electrical aspect, but i did help my bud assemble a fixture with 6 of the phillips pl-l tubes and the fulham workhorse 8 ballasts. All turned out well except for the interference on his AM radio (he's a rush baby and hates not being able to listen in in the afternoons).

what you got in mind?

 

[rives]

Just that it really isn't that difficult to put something together, and if you can find an appropriate hood that you like, you can save quite a bit of money. When I put mine together, there were no commercial fixtures available for this lamp, so there were no other options besides DIY. Also, for both the lamps that I had (T9 930s) and for my growing space, I needed air-cooled hoods and pretty small overall dimensions. The most difficult thing to source at that time were the lamp sockets. You want a hood that is designed for a pretty small lamp so that it will be correctly placed in the reflector to give you good light distribution. These lamps are much smaller than a 1K lamp, or even a 400w.

You need some basic fabrication skills and a few tools, but it's a pretty simple project overall. I'm a retired electrician, though, so it may be a bit more intimidating for people without the background for it.

 

[habeeb]

I wouldn't want to discourage anyone from working with Advanced because they seem to believe in their product line, offer great pricing, and some truly amazing deals at times. However, if you go back through this thread, you will see where their customer reviews have been all over the map. I think that they are a one-man shop, and when life interferes, business suffers. If you aren't in a big rush, no one can touch their pricing.

so true. I used them maybe 4 years ago? and it was a mess. had to call the guy, he was working when he was talking to me...

Pretty crude looking stuff, but the price is pretty good. Habeeb bought a couple of the fixtures in the following link, and if I recall correctly he liked them pretty well except for the amount of heat that open fixtures kicked out (he'd been using LEDs for a long time, and got spoiled!).

http://growershouse.com/sun-system-lec-315-light-emitting-ceramic-mh-fixture-240v

Are you only interested in complete fixtures, or are you open to putting your own setup together?

I do like them, yes heat is far up there from LED, where there is really no heat from the source..

I am trying the e papillon next to see if some of the heat can be negotiated with, also the e papillon can switch the reflector housing, but doesn't have a 120 volt option, and is higher priced, and the orentation of bulb is switched on them, also the e papillon should be a smaller unit if size is really restricted.

Just that it really isn't that difficult to put something together, and if you can find an appropriate hood that you like, you can save quite a bit of money. When I put mine together, there were no commercial fixtures available for this lamp, so there were no other options besides DIY. Also, for both the lamps that I had (T9 930s) and for my growing space, I needed air-cooled hoods and pretty small overall dimensions. The most difficult thing to source at that time were the lamp sockets. You want a hood that is designed for a pretty small lamp so that it will be correctly placed in the reflector to give you good light distribution. These lamps are much smaller than a 1K lamp, or even a 400w.

You need some basic fabrication skills and a few tools, but it's a pretty simple project overall. I'm a retired electrician, though, so it may be a bit more intimidating for people without the background for it.

great idea also. I love my hood with the bulb, less heat, maybe a few lumens lost to the glass, I guess you can run a open hood, but my setup is not built for that yet..

these can be great if you want a air cooled hood, or want to save a smidgen of cash. and gain some knowledge at the same time. also you can have the dimmer, which no unit except the cycloptics has, but I don't really see a need for it.. full blast baby

 

[The OrigF/clred]

rives - appreciate the suggestion. I've fabricated more than i can to admit (built two experimental category airplanes), and i work in metal - problem is, whenever i fabricate in an arena that isn't mine, it always takes twice the effort & time than i estimated.

I was hoping to find a decent setup already packaged in the mid 300s but looks like i was smoking home rolls on that possibility.

I won't be doing anything for another couple months when my bud's grow is wrapping up, and hopefully there'll be some competitively priced offerings out by then

 

[reents0]

Would you guys recommend CMH for my set up? Or would I be better off with 600w/1000w HPS?

I don't live in Europe or North America; here, the only CMH bulbs and ballasts I can get is Philips CDM Elite CDM-TMW 210/315W 930/942(a T9 model, to my knowledge, at 70$ USD) and Philips PrimaVision electric ballasts(100$ USD).

3m by 4m, floor height 2.7m, or 9.8 ft by 13.1 ft, floor height 8.8ft.
Ambient temp here can reach 100f or 38c here, therefore heat management is quite important.

 

[habeeb]

^

10 foot by 13 foot?

first off, those temps are straight up UGLY. you need a air con, like a mini split high seer rating, if you plan on using anything in that room, as that's mucho wattage right there.


honestly, I can't ever recommend anyone using more then 2 bulbs in a setup.. why, costs and moving the lamps all the time. I mean it kinda depends on the setup also, are you planning running multiple trays? you want one giant ass grow??? or two rows down the room????

I think the spectrum is excellent, cri is excellent, but near everyone looking at them wants to run a bigger room then there designed for, meaning multiple lamps, which mean when re-lamp times comes,, $$$ , god I hate buying one lamp, I couldn't imagine $1k on lamps...

I guess I want to know what you plan to do with the room, or give us some pics of setups.. it really all depends on so many factors, but the first comes layout of space, which I'm thinking you want to move around in there... ???


let us know, and we'll help you out

 

[reents0]

^
Thanks man.
I was trying to be as succinct as possible, having a headache from reading so much on Icmag recently, so I left out some details. I guess I was really asking what environment is CMH best for.

I haven's finished my planning yet, but it seems that two rows down the room fits the shape of my room. I actually have a second room for veg and clones, 3.12m by 2.6m or 10.2ft by 8.5ft. I am posting my rooms' layouts below.

I may have overstated the ambient temp. From June to September, on average it's 29c, or 85f. From November to February it's 17c, or 60f. I do have split ACs, but I am trying to minimize their use.

In the hottest months, I think I'll buy cooled hoods and run external air through them(not the room, just the hoods, since I have CO2 enrichment going on). I still can't decide how best to handle ventilation and CO2 enrichment. CO2 is not the cheapest thing, and I don't want to vent CO2 rich air, yet ventilation is keeping the temp in check.

I am running an aeroponic system, but I don't think it is different from a hydroponic system regarding room design. The growing trays are going to be made of stainless steel sheets, welded into large trays, so I can readily change the size of the trays.

 

[Bubbagineer]

I think the spectrum is excellent, cri is excellent, but near everyone looking at them wants to run a bigger room then there designed for, meaning multiple lamps, which mean when re-lamp times comes,, $$$ , god I hate buying one lamp, I couldn't imagine $1k on lamps...

Agreed. I wish that I had (2) 2x2 or 3x3 tents with one light each rather than 2 elite Agros in (1) 4x4 tent, but I had already bought a new Gorilla tent before I came across the lights. But they're vegging like crazy.

 

[habeeb]

Agreed. I wish that I had (2) 2x2 or 3x3 tents with one light each rather than 2 elite Agros in (1) 4x4 tent, but I had already bought a new Gorilla tent before I came across the lights. But they're vegging like crazy.

RIU member?

I was sharing CDM info over there... welcome. I remember you, from the mile high state?

 

[habeeb]

^
Thanks man.
I was trying to be as succinct as possible, having a headache from reading so much on Icmag recently, so I left out some details. I guess I was really asking what environment is CMH best for.

I haven's finished my planning yet, but it seems that two rows down the room fits the shape of my room. I actually have a second room for veg and clones, 3.12m by 2.6m or 10.2ft by 8.5ft. I am posting my rooms' layouts below.

I may have overstated the ambient temp. From June to September, on average it's 29c, or 85f. From November to February it's 17c, or 60f. I do have split ACs, but I am trying to minimize their use.

In the hottest months, I think I'll buy cooled hoods and run external air through them(not the room, just the hoods, since I have CO2 enrichment going on). I still can't decide how best to handle ventilation and CO2 enrichment. CO2 is not the cheapest thing, and I don't want to vent CO2 rich air, yet ventilation is keeping the temp in check.

I am running an aeroponic system, but I don't think it is different from a hydroponic system regarding room design. The growing trays are going to be made of stainless steel sheets, welded into large trays, so I can readily change the size of the trays.

View Image

just seeing.. are you wanting to sell, or what's the motivation for such a grow? I see the low post count and shouldn't assume, but I want to know.. i mean this is quite a bit of work here.. this aint no goldfish in the bowl.

understand, shits confusing trying to take it all in.

environment what CDM fits best is smaller setups.. I mean honestly, who would want to raise 3 lamps, buy 3 bulbs, expensive gear they are, when you could run a 1000.. there basically a small bulb, perfect for small use, but hell no I'm not doing commercial with these.. no way. some might though, so that's my opinion

temps like that, you need air cooled hoods, or run the air con harder. in the cooler you can tone the exhaust fans down, open the hoods... it should sit perfect at 72 F though once there on..

Co2. don't do it unless you run plants for years.. it's not a noobie thing to play with. learn the plant, once you mater that,, then move on. Co2 is a "big boy toy" , and you need the proper setup ( a sealed room to run it ) .. I even built a sealed room , wouldn't do it again, as it's nothing special. keep air moving and all is good. up to you though, you want it do it I guess.. just know it's basically a different setup then, dehumidifier / air con / Co2. you can't do both, it's sealed room or vented room. so you need to decide on that. and saying Co2 is not cheap, you need to bring in a guy to hook up a gas line in the room then

aero with that much space.. sounds like a disaster. have you even run hydro ?


this sounds all new to me.. let us know if you've even grown before, as this just sounds like a crazy setup.. I just need to know if you know what your doing, or this stuff just sounds cool to you..

these sizes are too big for CDM though also. max you can go, which I wouldn't is 3 foot width.

 

[reents0]

^
I'm trying to sell, eventually, in a year or so. You are right about I am new to growing. All I have at the moment are several plants in a small aeroponic tank under several CFLs.

Right now, the CO2 enrichment method is just fermentation, nothing that burns. The material was quite cheap, so I thought why not, as a small experiment.

I realize the plan I have may be overly ambitious for my skill level at the moment, but hey, I have plenty of time to learn and adjust. Heck, even having that many clones that fill up a flowering room can take several months; meanwhile, if any element of my plan seems impractical, I'll happily think of a better way. So I'll take your advice and look into other bulbs. Thanks a lot!

 

[habeeb]

gotcha

well aero seems a little crazy for the space you laid out, and a homemade seems even worse.. I ca understand some GH aeroflo's or whatnot's.. but that's up to you, there's a million ways to grow the plant, I can't tell you what to do, but I can tell you when I smell a fire...

selling.. I have no part in.. the spaces seem pretty small for selling, unless you plan on selling to friends or such.. maybe you hustle around, IDK. most guys have some pretty good operations in place when they grow to move. once again your call.

my idea, is start small, you can always work your way up. ditch the Co2, it causes more headache then it's worth to you right now..

get a Growlab 80L. get two CDM, and work your way up. or get some trays or whatever you have and work that.. no need filling a room with more then you can handle only to end up banging your head.. see how hard it is to start-up a small grow, finish ot end, then work up and up..

once again, design wise, I can't recommend that many CDM systems. there built for small grows and to replace 400's, not 1000's. I would run 3x3 trays / systems / setups and size from there. 4x4 won't work, so keep it to 3x3 trays, which 600's are perfect for. I know some people running 3x3 with the CDM, but can't recommend as they don't show pics and so I can't say.


plan, re-plan , then plan some more..


were all around to help, but no one is going to say go all in for a new grower, it just doesn't happen that way, and you need to build up to that, wait till you get pests, mold, PM, root rot, high temps, low temps, nute lockout.... don't do it with too many plants.. I love the idea / motivation / dream.. but we all need to start somewhere.. I've been growing 7 years, reading everyday for that time also, and still I don't know much....... it all takes time..


just get a lamp, and go from there... see if you even like growing, some people only like smoking.. growing is a lot of work.


all of this is my opinion, do what you like at the end of the day and all will work out

 

[LargePrime]

Just that it really isn't that difficult to put something together,

Did you extend the wire between the ballast and the fixture? What would you use?
It seems it can be up to 30', but what kind of wire would/did you use? I am finding it hard to source 7.5KV 18awg wire. I planned to cover with another sheathing to provide strain relief and keep the two wires enclosed.

 

[rives]

You aren't going to be able to find any wire rated for the high-voltage pulse that will lend itself to building a light fixture. From what I've seen, all of the manufacturers use 600v rated wire. SO cord carries a 600v rating and is available at Home Depot in appropriate sizes - anywhere from 12/3 to 18/3.

 

[Sky Farmer]

315w Elite Agro in Seattle

315w Elite Agro in Seattle

I've been told by Dr. Gelten at Philips that Philips screens out UV a b and c spectrum. The only bulb that has the beneficial UV-a and UV-b is Sun Pulse.

Seattle Hydroponics has the package for $315:
--Elite Agro bulb 315w
--Advance ballast IZTMH-210315-R-LF
--hood