(DK) AIM-9´s Vertical 128 site octagon coli style.

[Like a Glove]

Hey neighbor, thanks for looking by and the kind words

This question: "Im curious why you left all the leafs intact on your clones?"

The short version is im lazy.

Do you want the long one too?
The long version is im very lazy



Just kidding..
I think i can link to something, but it wont answer like the same way as the frase:
Ive been there and it do not work for me, so i dont use that technique/advice.

I'll give you a real reason which is even better than laziness:

Cutting leaves from a clone is a way to improve your success rate but will cost you time. If you need to cut leaves to succeed - do it because the most important thing after all is success. Efficiency follows if you dare to push it.

More leaves (...or green surface area) means more evaporation so as expected: Without any roots it is a lot harder for em to stay healthy and moist. In other words the greener thumb you've got the bigger clones you can handle. The bigger your clones are the faster they grow and less space and time you need. It all comes down to environment and experience.

Larger clones means larger moms. The more you train your moms (LST, bonsai, supercrop and/or top) as they age the more shoots they will produce per a cut. This is a simplified statement but hope you get the point. Older moms are denser and produce clones that have more shoots. Remember that cuts with green stems roots more quickly than cuts with wooden stems.

Laziness:
To me this kind of laziness that is mentioned here means experience. You can always do everything better if you want but it also means that you're on top of it all and know it. Now i can see a couple of a really lazy individuals with a smile: "I was right! Hell yeah! I'm not lazy - i'm experienced". Quit smiling. Right now. One can be lazy with everything under control and one can be lazy (aka stupid) with just enough luck to survive. If you're wondering which one you are take a look into your garden and working conditions. A good type of a lazy person takes time and effort to plan everything so that it is easy to do what is necessary. The other one does not give a f..k. If your garden looks messy and unclean do your self a favor and think what you're doing. The funniest thing is that usually this "lazier" individual has to work twice as much to do the same thing than the smart one. A truly lazy person does not need to move 10 things around to make space for one larger thing. The space is already there because everything is in order.

FFS. Sorry about the tirade. This all took me around 2hrs to write - edit - write - edit... Half of what i've written here does not even probably have any meaningful message but at the same time i can not click on cancel. So...

And a word of advice: Never ever waste your time and energy envying ppl who have better clones than you. The most important thing with cloning is the fact that you can multiply a (ganja) plant successfully. There is a lot of people out there who can not clone and are still giving their 110% to the culture so be proud that you can do it and help a friend whenever you can.

 

[Like a Glove]

...and i can't edit yet.

Wanted to add this: It's okay if you loose leaves while rooting but once you succeed in 100% green cloning you will remember it.

 

[Airnut]

Like a Glove: Thanks.. Its appreciated you toke the time to make the post meningfull.
Ive read it several times and I agree on the most part. I dont agre on the wodden stems though, a day or two longer is in my mind not a problem and ive seen wooden stems root faster than soft young cut. In my opinion its down to the amount of leafs on the cut, too few and it takes to long, this is also the main reason i dont cut my leafs on clones, they produce roothormones so i dont have to buy it.. I do it anyway.. roots = buds, so.....



The update this time ive just shot a few pic and made a timelapseteaser of the last 3-4 days of growth..

A close up

One side.

The other side..

And from above. Mountet the webcam to do some timelapse..

Lapseteaser:

[YOUTUBEIF]/CDEzx25MEqw[/YOUTUBEIF]

 

[Airnut]

A pic for a update..

 

[Airnut]

And a update.

Ive messed up - with my numbers..
Im a SI dude, i work by the meter, this cenversion to sq2 ive not fully understand - yet.
But a dude came by the other day, just by listening to my numbers he could tell it was wrong so we sat down and figured out my W/sq2 is not at all 44. its more like 18 and a half.
This blew my mind a bit cause its build from heaths numbers, then just added the 8th side, and a hole lot more plants. It means i can put in 3 bulbs to teach the 50ish area and this will suck out so much expensive juice out the plug I probebly never is going up in that area, I might double hence mount another 600W, but that will only be done after stretch, and off again the last week to ten days.
Just for the flowers...
Its still running, im doing a lapse of the run, so I wont do to much, like pictures.
I also havent been in there to prune the leafs or any. Been slightly busy lately..

 

[Mister_D]

The 50 wpsf rule DHF is always touting was developed for horizontal gardening, and therefore doesn't apply the same way in vert. As a general rule, many of us vert growers still use it to get an idea of how much light we should use in a given area. I/we plan for 50 wpsf as if we were growing horizontal, but factor in height of the garden/canopy also (i.e I might use a 1k vert for a 4x4-5x5 floor area, but if my garden canopy is 8ft tall I'd stack two 1k's in that same area). Just have to use a little common sense, and remember it's merely something to work off of, not the end all be all rule of lighting.

 

[Airnut]

Timelapse from week 2½ to 5½. Day 17 to 45.
Got a powersortage, made a big interruption on the lapse as my laptop cant hold battery long without the adapter..
Here what came out this time..
[YOUTUBEIF]/6i6Kegw9hbU[/YOUTUBEIF]

 

[Airnut]

Few pictures...

Harvesttime this weekend..

 

[Airnut]

Almost empty bottle of PH down mix.. Perfect..

The blue topop barrel has been filled 3½ times.. One with some vegmix in start flower, one with a bloommix, and one and a half with flushwater..
The reservoirgodt the rest of the clonewater and got speedet up to vegge ECratings in the 1. round. Take 2 Contained a mix of 1:1:1, And the last contained flushwater.
Been using aprox 1/3 of recommended use of ferts. It can be seen on the yellowing leafs but harvest is a week away..
Looking forward to see if this low use of fertz is visable/measurreble on the average weight in compare to the other runs in my belt.
Else the silvershield timer, the floatvalve and relays done their work in order to keep the waterlevel as 1. prio and then adjust the PH if needed. My numbers from the log create a almost (to me) perfect graph.
Stil a tiny problem in and around week 3 flower..

 

[Airnut]

Harvest time...

They´re okay..

Only need more... like 93 more

One of the heavy weight

One of the light weights

 

[Airnut]

Very close to average weight

Sorry for this picture has a odd language on it. But it should speak for itself..

And the next set of clones are ready to transplantet in around 3-4 days..

Average weight of the 35 dicks was 33.58. My aim when building this octagon was 33 straight using this plant.
Just by fillling this setup with cuts and not take care of uniformity should give me a grow much like this, but with a calculatet aprox of 1 gpw - just by placing cuts in all holes.
Then the real work begins by get a higher number of clones to pic and choose from.
At the moment if usig all i have, i can only produce 230ish clones.
Would like to get at least 256. Twice the amount needed. + 30 more to select new mums from..

 

[flat9]

Looks pretty rockin Airnut!

 

[DHF]

So as an avg...Once properly dried to +/- 25% moisture content the nugs end up round 8 grams each , with the biggest right at 1/2 oz.....

Dialed , monocropped and hoonin with 256-1/2 oz nugs would put yas over the top huh Bro ?....All things are possible with bare bulbs and increased plant numbers...bet on it......

Gotta be able to root MEGA cuts to get picks of the litter that root similarly as well as have the same growth structure for the perfect sideways canopy by end of stretch with no holes in it....

No 2 cuts root the same as plainly illustrated with all the different sized plantlets in your setup AN , so as I`ve always preached......

Root 2-3 times the amount yas need and cull whatchas don`t use....Top shelf shit Bro.....anyways....

Nice job and keep dialin....

Peace....DHF..........

 

[Airnut]

Thanks fellas.
DHF, i hear you and actully had for a long time, but i am a tester, if you claim i will test it to se if its right or not... even the most obvious little things. In my life ive learned that many things can be learned by just thinking and getting the ears full of words. But the best thing is to try it and then make up the mind if its usefull or not.
I had for some time now known the amount of cuts need to be 2 times higher than the amount of sites, but now there is nothing more to try and test. I need at least 2 times the amount of cuts.
So i need new cloners, I have a old idea in my mind to save some space and money on the cloners instead of bying new ones to accomondate the lack of clones..
Also I need more mums, the highest number that setup teoreticaly is able to produce is not enough for my needs, also the cuts got a bit to big, so im changing the light in the mumarea and add another pipe for 5 more mums
Within very long i will start to make the new cloners

The new mums growing to be new cuts for next

And the octagon. The cloner i have only takes 105 cuts, so with the needed 2 times i only managed to fill the octagon about half this time.
I will let it veg for a few days this time, there is some space for it, and the setup is still new to me - want to learn....

 

[AlterEgo860]

looks amazing.. but have u every thought of taking 1 row out.. and running a little bit taller of a plant? u could easily keep the same amount of yield .. and fill your needs clone wize.. and also not have to get another cloner.. iuno.. I did a SOG. before.. and loved it.. but I realized.. the extra 7 days of veg and less plants yielded a lot more Primo Colas.. basicly just had 7-14 gram nugs.. with a 10 =28 gram per plant harvest.. but I ran over 30 strains.. so it was tough.. but shit.. I think u could REALLY REALLY pull better weight with less plants with an extra week of veg,.

 

[Mister_D]

Lookin' better all the time airnut Good to see you sticking with the system and dialing her in. Going to be a long road to nirvana, but the journey will be worth the rewards .

 

[manic]

nice setup
I just wonder why you are filling your setup barely?
you could veg em longer..remember you are so close to the bulb, that it doesnt really matter if one row of plants starts to block the bottom of others..

also: since you want to make haschisch from you plants : place the plants in absolute dark for 72 hours at the end, right befor you cut them out of the setup.
the plants will respond by producing a shitload of resin during lights out.

 

[Airnut]

looks amazing.. but have u every thought of taking 1 row out.. I think u could REALLY REALLY pull better weight with less plants with an extra week of veg,.

Nope.. been there in theory.. Hope the pics can be seen, otherwise just give me a hint and ill upload them to here..
This post is from another site so i just quote myself..
DKAIM-9, on 18 Apr 2012 - 09:07 AM, said:

This is the result after the use of a short vegtime. 10 days with a 600W MH in 17/7 mode.
Total drybuds 256,8 grams

Never had so much work with the setup and im very happy i only tried this experiment on the top row.
Even more happy my autotop & PH adjuster did that part of the work for me, that im sure gonna use again.
But defoil was a daily operation, tried to cut branches on some to get the dick but it more or less did resulting in simillar yield compared to no vegtime!
The total weight of the this one floor run gave 256 g of dry bud. I got 3 floors so in theory the setup would yield 750+ on a 600W, but the work will be huge.
By growing dicks with this strain my work is reduced to 3 attacks.
1 Day 10-11 Cut the 2 lowest branches.
2 Day 24-30 Again cut the the 2-4 lowest branches.
3 Day 45-50 Defoil any leaf not comming direct from a bud.
Imo a great deal more KISS than a daily defoil.

So, now i now it all about my plant, how to get the max of it, almost. Still working to get a constant EC reading, and i need more airvent, both in total roomchange and internal fans.
Im going back to donkeydicks, but im gonna make me a new vert first, the ultmate shape for using vertbulb. The octagon.
The rootpicture shows the enormous amount of space not used in the 110mm PVC pipes. Im going down to 75mm PP pipes. It will still give enough room.
The smaller tubes also allows one more floor in addition, 4 floors in height, but still on the same size as 3 floors of 110mm. Each floor will be made of 8 pcs of 500mm long 75mm diameter PP tubes fittet with 45 degre connections to make the octagon shape. The gained knowlegde of my strain of choice allows me to have 4 holes in each tube and there is proberbly also room in the 45 connection to a 5th plant al system around, this 5th spot i think ill pass simply due to it will have the baddest growposition af all, its squezed in between 2 plants who both got a 2nd best place in the system regarding the light. But no promise.
One floor is made by 8 pcs with 4 seats in = 32 plant a floor X 4 floors = 128 plant system. (5 holes max it out to 160 plant system)
Thats the figurations im gonna follow and if all my data is right, and i have a good start on the cuttings, this system will deliver aprox the max i can get out of the strain using only one single 600W HPS.
The one i show on the pic weighs in a rough 23,? gram dry, no sticks buds only, most normal i do now a days is a average of 18 g dry buds pr dick - with no vegtime.
128 dicks X at least 10 g´s a plant = I aint gonna write it.. Im gonna try it..

Lookin' better all the time airnut .... Good to see you sticking with the system and dialing her in. Going to be a long road to nirvana, but the journey will be worth the rewards ....

Hey thanks...Yeah its going to be some journey, but i got a good ballast with me, i can always call up you guys and im only looking forward to se some scince become science fact, as close as possible.

nice setup
I just wonder why you are filling your setup barely?
you could veg em longer..remember you are so close to the bulb, that it doesnt really matter if one row of plants starts to block the bottom of others..

also: since you want to make haschisch from you plants : place the plants in absolute dark for 72 hours at the end, right befor you cut them out of the setup.
the plants will respond by producing a shitload of resin during lights out.

First, i simply dont have enough mums to produce enough cuts. Its a longer story why but in short i found cuts can pay the bills, then i can smoke the harvest...
Second... At the distance of 57 cm from the glass of the bulb to the top row perpendicular to it, it has a profound impact on the budsize if one leaf is shadowing one bud out. Of a bulb producing lots of lumens there is only between 10 and 16000 lumen that hits the plant directly, thats around the lowest one can go and still get rough 50-60% of the plants capacity. And thats even not true cause if you blast the plants with around 100000 lumen, it can actully pass the 100% barrier when using only a 50000 lumen bulb for a square meter of plants.
Sorry about use of lumen, but its a unit cheaply to messaure and thereby i hope you get the picture..
If using 100000 on one plant then a lot of light will penetrate to the next level, and produce a nice bud "in the shadow" But in this setup it wont work...

Thanks for the tip.. I do use it but not to make more resins, I could not weigh a difference on the trichs only, but ive noticed by saving 3 days 6 times a year does leave a small impact to the good side on the electrical bill. So i use a dark periode at the end..

 

[manic]

he already answered on the tall plant suggestion with a no.
But i am convinced you;d run a lot more yield ..

taller plants that partially shield each other . especially indica dominants will grow far nice frostier buggets,,
thats my experience

the way i see your grow, it looks like you;r using only half the space for plants, the rest is just warming up reflective material.

 

[Airnut]

someone excavatet my cabel to the world.
small line atm no pics just a bit of note..

stil alive. sideways canopy lokking good after the little vegperiode but they get to big for the setup..
Change my bulb to a fresh new one and set the topop water at EC 1.41 bloomwise..
Ill be back when the line is fully open again to uplaod pics.....