It is actually the sulfur compounds in butane that are of concern with the copper, not the butane. I haven't seen any evidence of corrosion with the low sulfur butane that we use.
-
Happy Birthday ICMag! Been 20 years since Gypsy Nirvana created the forum! We are celebrating with a 4/20 Giveaway and by launching a new Patreon tier called "420club". You can read more here.
-
Important notice: ICMag's T.O.U. has been updated. Please review it here. For your convenience, it is also available in the main forum menu, under 'Quick Links"!
Terpenation at Terpene Station
- Thread starter FatherEarth
- Start date
It is actually the sulfur compounds in butane that are of concern with the copper, not the butane. I haven't seen any evidence of corrosion with the low sulfur butane that we use.
mr. durden
Member
that makes sense. we don't run canned butane but I don't recall seeing sulfur on the listed breakdown on our tank
icdog
Member
I've finally done a run with my mk3. Thanks to everyone for all the help, GW, FE, Durden and others.
I got about 5 g from 150 g of terrible looking trim. The first flood took about 25 seconds to make the vent cold.
What is the best way to flood and recover now? I think FE said he dumps in between each flood, is that the way to go?
I only did 4 floods, by the 4th one it took almost half an hour to pump down to -10, does that seem normal?
The whole system looked totally frozen by the 4th flood as well. Is it correct that the G5 will still recover when the pot is that cold down to -22? How does that happen when your can tapping it barely does this with only one can? How does this happen when your using dry ice?
I think it would be useful to make a faq or sticky with the latest flood and recovery procedure using heat. And another on the setup for using dry ice.
I got about 5 g from 150 g of terrible looking trim. The first flood took about 25 seconds to make the vent cold.
What is the best way to flood and recover now? I think FE said he dumps in between each flood, is that the way to go?
I only did 4 floods, by the 4th one it took almost half an hour to pump down to -10, does that seem normal?
The whole system looked totally frozen by the 4th flood as well. Is it correct that the G5 will still recover when the pot is that cold down to -22? How does that happen when your can tapping it barely does this with only one can? How does this happen when your using dry ice?
I think it would be useful to make a faq or sticky with the latest flood and recovery procedure using heat. And another on the setup for using dry ice.
mr. durden
Member
i'd do 3 floods max, otherwise it takes too long, assuming you are doing cold extractions. i guess dumping would work at each cycle, but i'm not sure the reasoning why.
it will recover, but slowly. i wouldn't bother trying to recover to -22. it would take too long. just see where the butane is on the side of the bottom spool and when it is an inch or so from the bottom, pour it out.
when can tapping, you don't need to let it get that low before switching to a new can. either zero or -10. really depends on the setup.
mr. durden
Member
i thought the aquarium thing might work, but the max they usually go to is 92 degrees or so.
icdog
Member
K, I meant an aquarium heater, typo. Ya I think they max around 90 or so but they could be useful for keeping the water hot.
I'm not running dry ice yet, just icing down the tank, is that the same as a cold extraction? I don't get this difference yet.
FE was saying he dumps after each flood, I think.
I'm not running dry ice yet, just icing down the tank, is that the same as a cold extraction? I don't get this difference yet.
FE was saying he dumps after each flood, I think.
mr. durden
Member
We just refill with hot water each time. We use big pots that hold a couple gallons of water each. You want tap water hot, but not too hot, but you want enough water for it to stay warm the whole time. Super hot is not a good thing
I don't think there is a good reason to dump after every cycle
fuzzy dunlop
Member
We use a buffer between the bottom of the collection pot and the soup pot. Then run the soup pot at the lowest possible setting, resulting in an avg water temp that's warm enough to prevent ice yet provide a blonde and flavorful product
@ ICdog,
Dumping each cycle I got better yields and did not have yellow coffee filters at all when finishing a run, it also reduced my run time as I was able to get to clear butane more quickly...(monitoring the butane color through the sight glass.)
Run the MKIII per GW's instructions and you will do fine. Ultimately his method has proved to be reliable in producing quality oil and is simple. Go no heat on the collection pot with a well iced tank and dip the collection pot in a hot wyott for a few seconds when its begins to ice over. Light colored, clear, shatter or pull and snap every time. Once you get comfy with the routine you can deviate and add your own steps or try new ones if you wish. Best to get the basics down solid is my advice. Going subzero and using no heat whatsoever I have not been able to get anything better than pull and snap without using at least a little heat. HEAT seems to be the solidifying factor one way or another. There are many paths to nirvana, explore them all. Choose what works best for your needs/situation.
FE
Dumping each cycle I got better yields and did not have yellow coffee filters at all when finishing a run, it also reduced my run time as I was able to get to clear butane more quickly...(monitoring the butane color through the sight glass.)
Run the MKIII per GW's instructions and you will do fine. Ultimately his method has proved to be reliable in producing quality oil and is simple. Go no heat on the collection pot with a well iced tank and dip the collection pot in a hot wyott for a few seconds when its begins to ice over. Light colored, clear, shatter or pull and snap every time. Once you get comfy with the routine you can deviate and add your own steps or try new ones if you wish. Best to get the basics down solid is my advice. Going subzero and using no heat whatsoever I have not been able to get anything better than pull and snap without using at least a little heat. HEAT seems to be the solidifying factor one way or another. There are many paths to nirvana, explore them all. Choose what works best for your needs/situation.
FE
Just out of curiosity, has anybody tried an immersion circulator instead of bottom heated wyotts? (like http://www.sigmaaldrich.com/catalog/product/aldrich/z320714?lang=en®ion=US )
icdog
Member
Thanks. FE that's basically what I did, use GW's instructions. As I do more runs and read the posts I want to know how to become more efficient. I want to make sure I'm extracting everything and thats what I don't know yet.
I really think we need a faq or something as this thread is really long and I've read it more then a few times and still can't remember all the info.
I'm going to try an aquarium heater, its surprising how much water they can heat up.
I really think we need a faq or something as this thread is really long and I've read it more then a few times and still can't remember all the info.
I'm going to try an aquarium heater, its surprising how much water they can heat up.
mr. durden
Member
@icdog... I cut and pasted info I needed into a word document to help consolidate it.
Also, no heat and pouring out your butane/oil is a cleaner method. GW's instructions only work if you are wanting to scrape. Scraping out your oil introduces the chance of things going wrong. I believe they winterize almost everything at the pharm, so it is less of an issue.
Just remember to keep FE's methods/suggestions in perspective... He can't make glass /shatter without manipulating the oil after
Sent from my GT-N7100 using Tapatalk
Also, no heat and pouring out your butane/oil is a cleaner method. GW's instructions only work if you are wanting to scrape. Scraping out your oil introduces the chance of things going wrong. I believe they winterize almost everything at the pharm, so it is less of an issue.
Just remember to keep FE's methods/suggestions in perspective... He can't make glass /shatter without manipulating the oil after
Sent from my GT-N7100 using Tapatalk
Momerath
Active member
I've been running my MkIIIa for over a month now, and have made similar observations to many here. Here is what I have noticed:
Yes the wyott sucks to maintain a constant temp. Use it to get rid of ice over but don't rely on it. I have had mine sneak up and down on me, and that has resulted in inconsistent product. I've got my best product using NO heat, but also have produced very nice shatter at temps up to 115f in the wyott. Yes adding heat helps recovery time, so you just gotta decide whats more important to you, quality or quantity. Everything that has been heated to 90 or higher has come out dark.
If you follow the instructions provided, you WILL make a decent extract, but that doesn't mean there isn't a better way. Today I will be trying the pour out method, with the hopes of achieving a lighter colored extract. It seems to me that removing that final bit of butane with heat under vacuum does something to the extract, as several others have noticed. It seems to perform differently in my vac chamber than traditionally blasted and heat purged extract. I have noticed from my days of open blasting, that the more tane/moisture you remove with a good, low temp heat purge, the nicer the end product comes out after vac. Trying to vac with too much tane left in the extract causes some changes to occur, although scientifically I cannot say what these changes are. They are just my observations.
Also scraping the collection vessel is a pain in the butt, and like mr. durden said, introduces air and potentially contaminants into your oil.
I have yet to do a dry ice run, as the nearest retailer is 2 hours away. I am considering buying my own dry ice maker just for that purpose. Although I must say that I have turned out some pretty nice shatter (real shatter, that breaks clean at room temp) right out of the MkIIIa with just an iced down tank.
Many thanks to everyone here for their insight and advice, this thread has been my most valuable tool in getting my MkIIIa running smoothly. Keep up the good work everybody!
Yes the wyott sucks to maintain a constant temp. Use it to get rid of ice over but don't rely on it. I have had mine sneak up and down on me, and that has resulted in inconsistent product. I've got my best product using NO heat, but also have produced very nice shatter at temps up to 115f in the wyott. Yes adding heat helps recovery time, so you just gotta decide whats more important to you, quality or quantity. Everything that has been heated to 90 or higher has come out dark.
If you follow the instructions provided, you WILL make a decent extract, but that doesn't mean there isn't a better way. Today I will be trying the pour out method, with the hopes of achieving a lighter colored extract. It seems to me that removing that final bit of butane with heat under vacuum does something to the extract, as several others have noticed. It seems to perform differently in my vac chamber than traditionally blasted and heat purged extract. I have noticed from my days of open blasting, that the more tane/moisture you remove with a good, low temp heat purge, the nicer the end product comes out after vac. Trying to vac with too much tane left in the extract causes some changes to occur, although scientifically I cannot say what these changes are. They are just my observations.
Also scraping the collection vessel is a pain in the butt, and like mr. durden said, introduces air and potentially contaminants into your oil.
I have yet to do a dry ice run, as the nearest retailer is 2 hours away. I am considering buying my own dry ice maker just for that purpose. Although I must say that I have turned out some pretty nice shatter (real shatter, that breaks clean at room temp) right out of the MkIIIa with just an iced down tank.
Many thanks to everyone here for their insight and advice, this thread has been my most valuable tool in getting my MkIIIa running smoothly. Keep up the good work everybody!
icdog
Member
I didn't realize I could use the pour method without using dry ice, I thought that was the only way possible since the dry ice gets the butane so cold but normal ice doesn't. I prefer not to scrape, so far it isn't that much of a pain in the ass yet but I'm sure it will be.
Does anyone have any idea when doing a flood how much butane is in the collection pot? Is it pounds or just a bit?
I don't have an air pressure setup to blast out the spent material. Is there any other way to empty the tube that is easier then mashing a broomstick into it?
http://testproductsintl.com/721.html#.Un_4d-Jnsap
That is a link to the gas detector I have for anyone who is interested. I'm running the mk3 in about 2000 sq ft of empty space indoors and tested the amount of butane as much as I can.
When I finally got the spent material out of the tube and put it in a rubermaid container I detected ppm's over 10000 about an inch above the material but another few inches above it dropped to zero and beside and all around the container there was nothing.
I put the probe into the terp once I opened it and the same ppm over 10000 was in the down spout of the lid and also in the bottom of the collection pot. But moving the probe about a foot away the ppm was zero. The concentration also dropped very quickly in the terp once it was opened and exposed to air.
It seems that in a large space the ppm of the butane drops very quickly. When I was cantapping I screwed up with one whole can and it spewed everywhere. The probe showed some collected in a very small corner of my space close to the can but dissipated very quickly, less then a minute.
I've also tested the exhaust from the vac pump when purging, initially the ppm raised to about 500 or so but then dropped very quickly to zero.
I also noticed the dryer filter takes a long time to drain of butane, like half an hour or so.
I'm not relating this to say butane isn't dangerous indoors, just what I've noticed so far. I'm still curious what would happen over time in this size of space if 10 lbs of butane was released somehow. GW said butane breaks down by UV into h2o and co2.
Does anyone have any idea when doing a flood how much butane is in the collection pot? Is it pounds or just a bit?
I don't have an air pressure setup to blast out the spent material. Is there any other way to empty the tube that is easier then mashing a broomstick into it?
http://testproductsintl.com/721.html#.Un_4d-Jnsap
That is a link to the gas detector I have for anyone who is interested. I'm running the mk3 in about 2000 sq ft of empty space indoors and tested the amount of butane as much as I can.
When I finally got the spent material out of the tube and put it in a rubermaid container I detected ppm's over 10000 about an inch above the material but another few inches above it dropped to zero and beside and all around the container there was nothing.
I put the probe into the terp once I opened it and the same ppm over 10000 was in the down spout of the lid and also in the bottom of the collection pot. But moving the probe about a foot away the ppm was zero. The concentration also dropped very quickly in the terp once it was opened and exposed to air.
It seems that in a large space the ppm of the butane drops very quickly. When I was cantapping I screwed up with one whole can and it spewed everywhere. The probe showed some collected in a very small corner of my space close to the can but dissipated very quickly, less then a minute.
I've also tested the exhaust from the vac pump when purging, initially the ppm raised to about 500 or so but then dropped very quickly to zero.
I also noticed the dryer filter takes a long time to drain of butane, like half an hour or so.
I'm not relating this to say butane isn't dangerous indoors, just what I've noticed so far. I'm still curious what would happen over time in this size of space if 10 lbs of butane was released somehow. GW said butane breaks down by UV into h2o and co2.
mr. durden
Member
I've been running my MkIIIa for over a month now, and have made similar observations to many here. Here is what I have noticed:
Yes the wyott sucks to maintain a constant temp. Use it to get rid of ice over but don't rely on it. I have had mine sneak up and down on me, and that has resulted in inconsistent product. I've got my best product using NO heat, but also have produced very nice shatter at temps up to 115f in the wyott. Yes adding heat helps recovery time, so you just gotta decide whats more important to you, quality or quantity. Everything that has been heated to 90 or higher has come out dark.
If you follow the instructions provided, you WILL make a decent extract, but that doesn't mean there isn't a better way. Today I will be trying the pour out method, with the hopes of achieving a lighter colored extract. It seems to me that removing that final bit of butane with heat under vacuum does something to the extract, as several others have noticed. It seems to perform differently in my vac chamber than traditionally blasted and heat purged extract. I have noticed from my days of open blasting, that the more tane/moisture you remove with a good, low temp heat purge, the nicer the end product comes out after vac. Trying to vac with too much tane left in the extract causes some changes to occur, although scientifically I cannot say what these changes are. They are just my observations.
Also scraping the collection vessel is a pain in the butt, and like mr. durden said, introduces air and potentially contaminants into your oil.
I have yet to do a dry ice run, as the nearest retailer is 2 hours away. I am considering buying my own dry ice maker just for that purpose. Although I must say that I have turned out some pretty nice shatter (real shatter, that breaks clean at room temp) right out of the MkIIIa with just an iced down tank.
Many thanks to everyone here for their insight and advice, this thread has been my most valuable tool in getting my MkIIIa running smoothly. Keep up the good work everybody!
i'm not sure how effective a dry ice maker would be, but using ice and freezing your columns/tank certainly helps with the process.
aside from all the different ways to use the closed loop system, what we do prior to putting the material in the column and what we do after we get the oil out of the system is huge.
mr. durden
Member
oh yes, the cold extraction using ice will accomplish the same thing in allowing you to pour off your oil. look how cold the tank gets even when using heat.
you could weigh your tank as you are using it or the IIIa if you have a refrigerant scale. i use to weigh, but more trouble than it is worth. i do weigh my tank before and after a days work so that i can see how much butane we are going through. usually about 3lbs for 2 2.5lb runs.
after my tubes have sat outside awhile, i use a spade bit on my drill with an extension to loosen it up. i never had luck with the blasting with air method. i have a 5 gal compressor. then when i've gotten the majority of material out, i pour in denatured alcohol with and end cap on, then clamp the other side on and swish it up and down for awhile, let it sit, and then do it some more. everything comes out easy, i filter the denatured, and use it again. just make sure to wipe down the tubes with rubbing alcohol after.
i use a fitting that allows me to use irrigation hose to vent my units to the outside before opening them up. it came with my tami and i just re-purposed it.
i use ball valves on either end of my filter dryer to close it up after use. otherwise it'll pull moisture out of the air. if i'm walking past it, i'll open it up briefly to vent out the pressure.
god, i can't imagine what 10lbs of butane would do :/ better get the hell out of there, make sure everything is already off, and vent the place quickly :/
