luckycharmz
Member
After balancing my PH to 5.8-6...I check it again after 1 full 18/6 cycle and its consistently back up to 7+. Is there something I'm missing ?
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PH LEVEL using hydro/water stone grow
- Thread starter luckycharmz
- Start date
Cat Jockey
Member
Yes, starting with the proper pH range to shoot for. You should start at 5.1-5.3 when you first mix your nutes. Let it rise over 7-14 days to about 6.1, max, in veg. 6.3 in flower.
Most people will tell you higher - they are wrong and that (wrong pH), coupled with a couple other things, became cemented in 'online weed growing' circles.
As far as the rapid change, were it dropping fast, I would suggest you look in your res for something growing (algae, bacteria, etc). With the rise, I wouldn't be surprised if it is the chemical nature of the solution doing this.
pH Up and pH Down is bad shit. Can fuck up your res, easily. Further, since your res has been well over 6.4, you have no doubt precipitated out some of the nutes, changing makeup and pH.
Mix a fresh res. Start it around 5.2 (should be able to do this without pH adjusting).
Cat Jockey
Member
I'm going to add for anyone reading that if you are using a mostly peat / perlite / vermiculite based 'dirt' (not soil), you should be aiming for close to the same pH range.
Soil and hydro are different when it comes to PH/Nutrient Availability.... And the acidity of peat must have a proper liming agent to stabilize it in soil. I'd never use perlite because it don't stay where you put it, and vermiculite can hold water a bit much for my tastes..... I use crushed lava rock and rice hulls personally. As far as PH........
Cat Jockey
Member
A fellow Coloradan?
I don't know the source of that chart, but at first glance, it reminds me of that that fuggin' blue chart that St0ney put out years ago. I watched that chart be made, by a grower who was having problems with his grow (this chart was the results of his furious internet studies and an Ebb & Flow grow he was having issues with and doing things like pouring Epsom Salts into his res to fix it).
It is wrong, one more than one count. St0ney actually lived in Colorado too, then moved to the Northwest. Banned my ass in a political debate. But I don't care about that. I do care that his stupid fuggin' blue chart has led many astray because he was an intermediate level grower, at best, at the time.
What most Sweet Lady Jane farmers call soil, ain't. Let me let get the doggies fed and I'l show ya ...
I don't know the source of that chart, but at first glance, it reminds me of that that fuggin' blue chart that St0ney put out years ago. I watched that chart be made, by a grower who was having problems with his grow (this chart was the results of his furious internet studies and an Ebb & Flow grow he was having issues with and doing things like pouring Epsom Salts into his res to fix it).
It is wrong, one more than one count. St0ney actually lived in Colorado too, then moved to the Northwest. Banned my ass in a political debate. But I don't care about that. I do care that his stupid fuggin' blue chart has led many astray because he was an intermediate level grower, at best, at the time.
What most Sweet Lady Jane farmers call soil, ain't. Let me let get the doggies fed and I'l show ya ...
are you correcting the chart? or reminiscing about your dislike of charts?
either way, nice to meet you.
I'm lazy, so I'll do this with a shot instead of typing....
Thats what I use, Its 1 serving size which to me is about a full trash can.... and it fills 2 20 gallon pots quite nicely per serving
EDIT: full disclosure, I also have hog bone and blood mixed in along with flax seed meal and a few other things from previous mixings of my prior recipe's greensand.....etc, so those arent in my current mix list, but they are in my soil..... I cut granite countertops, so I also have quartz, granite and onyx dusts among others..... but NEVER a polymer or resin product... I knew what was being cut and "cleaned" the air filters....both before and after what I wanted was cut..... So, I'd never recall all what "stone flour's" are in there either...... but....
Variety is the spice of LIFE!
either way, nice to meet you.
I'm lazy, so I'll do this with a shot instead of typing....
Thats what I use, Its 1 serving size which to me is about a full trash can.... and it fills 2 20 gallon pots quite nicely per serving
EDIT: full disclosure, I also have hog bone and blood mixed in along with flax seed meal and a few other things from previous mixings of my prior recipe's greensand.....etc, so those arent in my current mix list, but they are in my soil..... I cut granite countertops, so I also have quartz, granite and onyx dusts among others..... but NEVER a polymer or resin product... I knew what was being cut and "cleaned" the air filters....both before and after what I wanted was cut..... So, I'd never recall all what "stone flour's" are in there either...... but....
Variety is the spice of LIFE!
Cat Jockey
Member
One quick other point - you don't need a liming agent in a mostly peat/perlite and/or vermiculite mix. I have dealt with peat that had a base runoff in the high 3's, low 4's. A good 20% runoff every watering (which is just good, for a lot of reasons), a flush mid-veg, end of veg and last 3 weeks or so of flower (which is just good, for a lot of reasons) and a good amount of perlite for an airy mix (which is just good, for a lot of reasons) with the acidic peat and it's all good with yer lady's feet.
If you are using a mostly PPV mix, you are not a dirt farmer. You are a handwatering, hydro growin' mofo. And need to use the appropriate pH range.
Let me show you, in just 4-5 pics, at least 50 different strains in different states of veg (some several years old mothers), 5 different lighting systems, and 3 different growing systems (RDWC, E&F and 5 gallon, umm, 'dirt' plants in peat/perlite/vermiculite mixes).
All on the same pH that I am advocating. All using the same nutes (different strengths for lights, systems, etc.). Not one single pH problem. Nor Cal/Mag problem.
And not a single bottle of Cal/Mag anywhere in those growrooms.
Small 3 light veg room. Rooted clones went into 2x4 E&F under 8 bulb T5 for one week, then under 400W in a 3x3 tray for one week and then into a 4x4 under a thowie for two weeks. This fed a flower room that had (4) 4x4 E&F trays, each with a separate res and thowie, with a tray harvesting every two weeks:
24 site RDWC system under 6000W of vertical lighting. This was part of a 10,000W mother room I had. Every one of those 24 plants was a different strain and on the same nute solution. No Ca, no Mg, no pH problems and no Cal/Mag used:
Same mother room:
Freshly rooted clones of multiple strains, not fresh cuttings:
A clone closet I was never stupid enough to take a pic of when full of upwards of 2,000 clones, at times:
Btw, that is some interesting symbolism in your sig. Did you create that?
If you are using a mostly PPV mix, you are not a dirt farmer. You are a handwatering, hydro growin' mofo. And need to use the appropriate pH range.
Let me show you, in just 4-5 pics, at least 50 different strains in different states of veg (some several years old mothers), 5 different lighting systems, and 3 different growing systems (RDWC, E&F and 5 gallon, umm, 'dirt' plants in peat/perlite/vermiculite mixes).
All on the same pH that I am advocating. All using the same nutes (different strengths for lights, systems, etc.). Not one single pH problem. Nor Cal/Mag problem.
And not a single bottle of Cal/Mag anywhere in those growrooms.
Small 3 light veg room. Rooted clones went into 2x4 E&F under 8 bulb T5 for one week, then under 400W in a 3x3 tray for one week and then into a 4x4 under a thowie for two weeks. This fed a flower room that had (4) 4x4 E&F trays, each with a separate res and thowie, with a tray harvesting every two weeks:
24 site RDWC system under 6000W of vertical lighting. This was part of a 10,000W mother room I had. Every one of those 24 plants was a different strain and on the same nute solution. No Ca, no Mg, no pH problems and no Cal/Mag used:
Same mother room:
Freshly rooted clones of multiple strains, not fresh cuttings:
A clone closet I was never stupid enough to take a pic of when full of upwards of 2,000 clones, at times:
Btw, that is some interesting symbolism in your sig. Did you create that?
If your water is chlorinated or comes out of a faucet I have noticed the same thing, until the chlorine evaporates out.
Peace
Peace
Also if your water has a high buffering capacity. Buffering capacity is the tendency of water to resist a drop in pH because dissolved minerals in the water react with any acids an neutralize them.
If you know the general hardness (GH) and carbonate hardness/alkalinity (KH) of your tap water. I'm guessing that both are high, or at least fairly high. Dissolved calcium carbonate (lime) and other minerals are where that buffering capacity comes from. If this is the case, obtain water from some other source such as, RO water that does not have such a high dissolved mineral content. It's much easier to manipulate the pH of soft water than that of hard water. It's also easy to make hard water out of soft water you just dissolve mineral salts in it-- but it's hard to get those minerals back out if you want to make soft water out of hard water.
Peace
If you know the general hardness (GH) and carbonate hardness/alkalinity (KH) of your tap water. I'm guessing that both are high, or at least fairly high. Dissolved calcium carbonate (lime) and other minerals are where that buffering capacity comes from. If this is the case, obtain water from some other source such as, RO water that does not have such a high dissolved mineral content. It's much easier to manipulate the pH of soft water than that of hard water. It's also easy to make hard water out of soft water you just dissolve mineral salts in it-- but it's hard to get those minerals back out if you want to make soft water out of hard water.
Peace
Cat Jockey
Member
Good water info, Sativa Dragon, and precisely why I am such a strong advocate of RO. Tap water fucks up nutrient solutions. I know too, that not everyone has chlorine anymore - some get a non-evaporative chlorimide or chlorimine, on of the two I probably misspelled.
Cat Jockey
Member
Thanks, Seaf0ur. Figured a corporation put together thing. There is some deep symbolism that's got nuttin' to do with weed growing going on there. I need to look into it further ...
It just dawned on me that his title says "Stone Grow" if the medium is stone these minerals can get into the water and buffer the water.
I wonder what the grow medium the plant is anchored in.
Thanks for the props CJ
Peace
I wonder what the grow medium the plant is anchored in.
Thanks for the props CJ
Peace
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luckycharmz
Member
Thank You to all of you for the abundance of great info...to answer a cpl important questions...I'm using a sterilized 2gal clear bucket res w a 6" water stone bubbler(purchased @ local pet store). And re. my water source, I've been using poland spring distilled..
luckycharmz
Member
Thank You to all of you for the abundance of great info...to answer a cpl important questions...I'm using a sterilized 2gal clear bucket res w a 6" water stone bubbler(purchased @ local pet store). And re. my water source, I've been using poland spring distilled....
What's your media? And what kind of hydro set up you got? RW will raise pH on the daily and some root problems will too.
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Im going through the same thing with my DWC's and it made me start to think outside of the box. I actually started a thread asking the community if the pH swings/drifts/shifts could be attributed to the airpumps.
I bubbled the water in the buckets for about 2wks; added the nutes after and kept the bubkets bubbling all the while; when I added the nutes I got to 6 - 6.5, then after about a week it swung right back up to 8.0; added the pH down and it leveled out and has been holding at 5.6 - 6.
ive been watching it damn near everyday and its still holding so I think its finally leveled out completely (I hope and pray).
btw excuse me TheCleanGame whassup bruh!? lol, glad to see you made your way around to this one
I always was aware of the advice that when you add those GH nutes you have to give everything a while to level out, so you cant put your plants in right after you add the nutes; how long it actually takes to literally level out to a point of stability is still in question.
im thinking that once the pH levels out to a point of stability then all you have to worry about is ppm levels as to when to add nutes and toping up the water level.
didn't read through the thread so don't know if anyone had mentioned or if you haven't already get yourself a TDS meter, theyre really cheap now!!
You have a 2gallon res and a 6" stone. That's a tiny res...
If you have a 3watt or larger airpump... you're pushing too much air through it and raising your pH.
Keep it Clean!
Interesting, my intuition would make me think pH would go down, just as rain water is lowered by the water and air reacting.
Pristine rainwater has a pH of 5.62 (acid rain is anything below 5.6). The reason pristine rain water has a pH of 5.62 is from the absorption of CO2 in the atmosphere (at 390 ppm CO2). So wouldn't pumping air into your water lower pH? The balanced equation is the same.
