Help, I'm going Coco for the first time

[greenops]

I'm excited and at the same time anxious for my first Coco grow. I've had some good results growing in soil but I feel like doing something new. Everything is set up now (tent, 600w HPS, DTW system), and I'm about to pop my seeds as I read thru some online Coco guides and experiences.
What surprises me is that there are quite a few growers having problems especially early on. Because I wanna get it right the first time I hope to get some answers from experienced Coco growers on some of the things that confuse me:

1. Flush before use - The hydro shop recommended Plagron Coco http://www.plagron.com/nl-nl/product/1/46/27/cocos-premium.aspx
Plagron says their Coco doesn't require a flush but I read some posts where the flush was a make or break. If I'm going to flush it before use, do I have to adjust the pH i'm flushing with? What pH? How much runoff does the flush need?

2. Charging - Do I charge the Coco right after the flush? I'll be using the Hesi Coco line: http://hesi.nl/english/popups/cocoschema.htm Do I have to mix all the nutrients used for clones according Hesi's feeding schedule? At what EC and pH?

3. I'm used to popping my seeds in a glass of water. Can I plant the cracked seed in a jiffy like before? Or can I skip that step and just plant it directly in a 16 oz starter cup, filled with the pre charged Coco?

4. I was told and also read that in the beginning the pots should be let to dry a bit for the roots to develop better. But according to some threads, exactly this gave em problems. How dry should I let the pots get before watering again?

5. 10% run off - is what I've read is ideal when watering. But since my timer can only be set to 1min at a minimum, I guess the pump will run much more water thru those 16 oz starter pots. Does it matter if I get significanlty more run off than 10%?

6. Right amount of nutes? In soil I was used to give about 25% to 50% of the recommended dose of nutes as in soil there's a saying that less is more. Does that apply in Coco? The tap water around here is 0.4 EC. At what EC should I start with? When do I gradually increase?

Hope I get these questions answered so that my plants can get a good start... thanks!

 

[Coconutz]

Water through with a light nute solution .5 - 1.0 ec
Rooters are cool because you can bury the stem if you get some stretch, but right into a cup of coco is almost the same thing.
You dont ever want your coco to dry. Water them when they are still moist, but getting lighter.
If you let them dry the ph and ec goes out of range.
Even when your cup is still moist there will be dry spots around the roots on the edge. Transplant them before that become a problem.
You want to use a pot size that you will be able to water atleast once every day, asap, but the first week you might have to let the roots stretch a bit.
Around a week or two before flower you should put them into a bigger pot. You want them to have room in the pot for a growth explosion during flower.
You will probably end up needing to water more than once a day in flower. The more often the better.
Keep your EC low when watering multiple times per day. I can get away with about 1.2 - 1.5ec feeding twice a day, but my plants dont like it that low if Im watering every couple of days so Ill have to use more. Thats usually when Ill get problems though, so I prefer to keep them in pots that I can water often with a low ec.

 

[gus738]

how much faster is coco growing vs soil growing ?

 

[greenops]

Coconutz thanks for your input.

You're saying i don't need to flush, just charge the coco right away? I've read somewhere that enough solution has to go thru the medium until the EC and pH of the run off matches the one that goes in to the medium. Is that true? Or is a lil run off enough?

U answered pretty much all of my questions except question 5. Hope someone can answer that one as well. Thanks!

 

[Coconutz]

When you first wash your coco get a ton of runoff...
I never check it, I just make sure Ive ran a lot of water through it.
Usually I fill a 5gal pot and wash it with a 5 gal bucket 3/4 full of low nute solution twice. The first one being like 250ppm and the second 500ppm(.5 scale)
Thats probably overkill. Just make sure you water the plants often and keep the ec low.
On a regular basis just water until you see a few drips come out of the pots.
You can get a cycle timer that will allow you to set the timer exactly the way you want it.
If you dont let it dry and avoid over feeding you dont need much runoff.
I recommend rereading h3ad goes coco a few times during your first coco run.

 

[guerilllataktic]

it will not hurt your plants to water more than ten percent run off it will however hurt your wallet by wasting nutrients down the drain

 

[otis33]

I recommend drip clean@1ml/gal. many coco growers use this to prevent lock out due to salt build up, if you keep the ec low as coconutz recommend you shouldn't have any problems, but it's like an insurance policy. watering to a good amount of run off will prevent salt build up, but even when I hand water, I still use it... just in case. good luck!

 

[Granger2]

Consider hand watering till you get into larger pots. The amount of runoff doesn't matter except for wasting money. pH anything that gets applied to your plants, incl flush, to 5.8-6.1. If it's a little outside that range occasionaly don't worry about it. I intentionally let the pH move around within and occasionally a bit outside the range because different nutes are available at different pH. With top brands of coco it's unnecessary to flush but can't hurt. If you flush you'll probably need to make sure you charge with Ca, Mg, and trace mins. Take note that most CalMag supps have N. A good trace min supp is Earth Juice Microblast. A CalMag without N is Gen Organics CalMag+. Either way on the jiffys. I'd go with convenience. First watering/feeding, get a whole lot of runoff to make sure all the medium gets wet. When you finish watering, pick up the pots to check the weight. Don't water/feed till they are noticeably lighter. They need to search for water to expand the roots quickly. That doesn't mean bone dry. I do this after any transplant. Good luck. -granger

 

[papaduc]

The only time you need to flush coco before you use it is when you've bought a poor quality one or there's been a mistake in the flushing and buffering process at the source of the stuff the company buys from.

It's probably the single biggest myth in coco use that you need to pre-flush the stuff with gallons of nutrient solution. All you're doing is throwing chemicals, and money, down the drain. If you've got money and time to waste, go for it. If not, don't bother.

To know if you've bought a good quality coco, just put some into a 1L pot, water it and catch the run off. The ec of the run off should be no more than 0.2 higher (if at all) than what comes out of your tap, and the ph should be set at or somewhere between 6.0 and 6.5. That's how you know you've got a buffered coco. This means it's been rinsed already with calcium nitrate and is ready to use.

There's no need for an extraction method for more accurate results because if your coco isn't buffered the results will be way out of line with the above.

If you're buying bricks to expand, do the same thing with a small piece of it. Expand, water, check the run off. Ask the company if they sell buffered grade. Always buy that. If they say no, or they offer you `organic` or `original` or `rinsed` it's no good for you unless you actually want a load of hard work. Buffered is the grade we need.

If you get a higher EC and a lower Ph, you've got a shit quality of coco and you'll need to adjust it yourself. In which case, buy better coco.

EDIT: some coco like B'cuzz is pre-fertilised, so would register higher on the ec pen, but is still good quality and ok to use straight from the bag. The Ph will still be within the right range. B'cuzz tell you it's pre-fertilised and you should treat it similar to soil for the first week by giving just water and maybe a weak dose of nutes. Most coco doesn't come pre-ferted.


Btw that's the only time you'll need to check the run off for anything. Imho It's another myth that you need to keep tabs on what comes out of the bottom of the pot through the grow.

Also, I disagree slightly with coconutz' dosage estimates. Personally I don't think 1.5 is a low EC for a complete base feed. But it depends on your background (tap water) ec. If your tap is 0.2 then an ec of 1.0 - 1.2 of a veg feed will keep most strains happy, even if they're only fed once every few days.

I hand water, my tap water is 0.2 and 1.2ec is the highest I ever have to go in veg no matter what the strain.

 

[Coconutz]

6/9 comes out to the right ph everytime with my RO so I dont really use my pens anymore.
I find that my 6/9 mix ends up roughly in that area depending on my focus on the measurements by eye and how much water is in the bucket. I suppose I could get away with less, Ive never really tried.
I dont keep logs or anything either. I just go with whats known to work and if something looks strange I can rule out a lot of things right away and narrow my search so that I dont waste time.
Thats pretty much the only reason I recommend rinsing the coco. Even if its not necessary, atleast it helps you eliminate several possibilities right away, should an issue arise.
Veteran coco growers might not need to start from a clean slate, but Id recommend people new to coco do just so it makes it easier for us when they come to the boards with problems...

 

[papaduc]

I understand your point. But the first thing I'd recommend to new coco growers would be getting an EC pen.

I know first hand from rinsing different grades of coir that there's more guesswork and more potential for a problem thoroughly rinsing a lower grade coco but having no pen to test it, than verifying a good grade with a pen and then not rinsing it at all.

If you buy buffered coco, there's no need to pre-charge it or wash it. That's exactly what the buffering process is. Believe me, if you've got a grade of coco that actually needs rinsing and buffering, then unless you've only got a pot or two to fill, you'd be better off buying something else.

The chances are if you've only tipped the equivalent volume of low dose nutes through your fresh coco and your plants are growing perfectly from the beginning, you didn't need to do that in the first place.

 

[the gnome]

I want to make a coco run in the next bloom run so trying to absorb info now.
papaduc...on the subject of rinsing and buying a buffered rady to roll coco.
is botanicare block coco good to go, or is B'cuzz the one to get.

sorry not trying to change the subject

 

[Sleeper7784]

I want to make a coco run in the next bloom run so trying to absorb info now.
papaduc...on the subject of rinsing and buying a buffered rady to roll coco.
is botanicare block coco good to go, or is B'cuzz the one to get.

sorry not trying to change the subject

Botanicare CocoGro 5kg compressed brick. The basic process is either Hydrate the whole brick in a 30gal tote. Then in a clean and throughly rinsed pillowcase, fill it half way with the now expanded coco (or you can just brake off what you need a put it straight in the pillowcase), then stick a hose in to the pillowcase and flush the shit out of the coco. When your done and you feel enough water has ran through it, you can twist the pillowcase closed and squeeze as much of the water out as possible. Bam! Clean ready to go coco.

I usually do this in my driveway so I when I'm squeezing the shit out of the clean coco I can stand and jump u and down on while the water can run down into the gutter.

Also if for some reason can't get a Botanicare bale, I have settled for General Hydroponics 5kg bale. Same process.

 

[the gnome]

so looks like BC coco has to go thru the rinse process.
is there an acceptable ppm run off? or does it have to be Zero ppm?

i have a 5 gal bucket w/30-40 1/4" holes in the bottom, so i could fluff it out and into the bucket and toss a hose on it and let it flush for X amount of minutes...

btw i see ready to roll 50L bags.
any idea how many liters is in one of those 5kg BC coco bricks?

 

[dansbuds]

gnome .... your going to want a bigger container than a 5 gallon bucket to flush the coco . grab a 15 or 18 gallon tote minimum . i've taken half a brick thrown it into an 18 gallon tote with a billion holes in the bottom & just stuck it in the shower for an hour . go in mix it around a few times , let it drain & done .



posted by gnome

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]so looks like BC coco has to go thru the rinse process.
is there an acceptable ppm run off? or does it have to be Zero ppm?[/FONT]


same EC out as you put in .



I will say ..... i've had much more consistancy with the coco from the bags of canna or mother earth than i ever did with the bricks .

 

[the gnome]

gnome .... your going to want a bigger container than a 5 gallon bucket to flush the coco . grab a 15 or 18 gallon tote minimum . i've taken half a brick thrown it into an 18 gallon tote with a billion holes in the bottom & just stuck it in the shower for an hour . go in mix it around a few times , let it drain & done .
I will say ..... i've had much more consistancy with the coco from the bags of canna or mother earth than i ever did with the bricks .

ahhhh... big thnx for the info dansbud
I have the space and time to flush brix

the price of the bags shipped into my area is mind bending
considering the amt. needed
$19 a 50l bag and over $35 shipping


even shipping cost of bricks surprised me,
shipping is nearly as much for the cost of the brix

I'd love the plug-n-play bags of coco
but there's no hydro store anywhere near me.

 

[Sleeper7784]

so looks like BC coco has to go thru the rinse process.
is there an acceptable ppm run off? or does it have to be Zero ppm?

i have a 5 gal bucket w/30-40 1/4" holes in the bottom, so i could fluff it out and into the bucket and toss a hose on it and let it flush for X amount of minutes...

btw i see ready to roll 50L bags.
any idea how many liters is in one of those 5kg BC coco bricks?

I personally like Botanicare because there a good blend of bird nest fibers(but not to much), and pith. I also use a 5 gal. bucket with similar size holes. Most of the time I line it with the pillowcase but if your not worried about the little bit that makes it thru the holes. It will and does work fine to just rinse in the straight bucket.
When I only need 4 gallons or to fill my clone cups I just use a 4" putty knife and a hammer to split the pieces of brick off that I need. Make sure you do it inside a trash bag to catch anything that comes off, and so you can wrap whatever your not using.
Also when you use the bucket you can use another bucket to press the water out.

Remember how coco works is whatever you put in it pushes out and replaces what was previously in it. So if your using 150ppm ph 7.0 hose water. That's what the levels will be left over in the media. But this is not a problem because as soon as you put it in pots and plants some clones in it, the first thing you do is water with half strength ph adjusted nuts. This will push out the 150ppm ph 7.0 and replace it with the fresh proper solution. Then its just a matter of feeding new nutrients every watering. Monitor you ppms going in and coming out.
And for reference in my 2 gallon fabric pots I run about 80 - 100oz.
of water per pot and my run off is a perfect amount.

I think theres 70 liters to a brick, that's about 17 gallons. For $9-$15 you can't beat that. You just have to do a little work to ensure its clean.

I personally don't like the bags out there, no matter the brand, of loose coco because I feel like its composted and broken down or the breaking down process has began. But that's my opinion.

 

[otis33]

a good way to rinse coco is with a huge (50+ gal) smart pot. I don't really rise it anymore unless it's going to be reused, but it was nice to be able to put the smart pot in the shower filled with coco and just turn it on for 10 or 15 mins...esp in winter when it's 10° outside

 

[drsmoke69]

roots organics coco coir works great for me with-out flushing before use

 

[Sleeper7784]

a good way to rinse coco is with a huge (50+ gal) smart pot. I don't really rise it anymore unless it's going to be reused, but it was nice to be able to put the smart pot in the shower filled with coco and just turn it on for 10 or 15 mins...esp in winter when it's 10° outside

Sold! This is a great way to rinse coco! Only thing is I like to squeeze as much water out as possible before I use it. But if you have a big enough smart pot you could just fold the sides in and press it.