can pH fluctuations be caused by the air pump?

[FRIENDinDEED]

i just had and idea cross my mind and it didn't sound too far fetched to be true.

is there anyway that the air being pumped into the rez of a hydro system, via the airpumps, cause pH fluctuations, that is, if the air in the area/room is fowl somehow or in anyway?

 

[ydijadoit]

Hey FriendinDeed,
Yes, absolutely. I don't understand the exact scientific reason, but I learned this in "water school" when I worked for a hot tub dealer.
The bubbling water in a hot tub, will always raise the PH. That's why they taught us to sample water only with the jets, and especially the air, off.
You raise an excellent point, and if I get time, I will test it out.
The grow I am running now, uses little in the way of airstones.
I just changed my res, but once it stabilizes, I'll turn off the air for a few hours, and measure the PH, before and after.
Thanks for posting, you lit a fire under my ass, to see if I can prove this true/false, as it applies to hydro.
Regards

 

[Skunkpassion]

Always check your ph while pumps are off.. Otherwise you can get false readings..

 

[Dream Time]

Theoretically, yes. As carbon dioxide from the air is absorbed into water it creates a weak carbonic acid, which can cause the water to become more acidic. The only time I've noticed it is if I take a pH reading on a fresh batch of RO water and then check it again in a couple of days. I seriously doubt the effect would be noticeable in a rez full nutes.

 

[D's]

I thought airborn bacteria may be the cause as well as carbon dioxide. Ph rises when slime shows up. I hope someone elaborates further. I know my well water is thick with bacteria. Shit kills goldfish. I think it's related. Much better luck with waterfall than air pump in a Rez.

 

[FRIENDinDEED]

Hey FriendinDeed,
Yes, absolutely. I don't understand the exact scientific reason, but I learned this in "water school" when I worked for a hot tub dealer.
The bubbling water in a hot tub, will always raise the PH. That's why they taught us to sample water only with the jets, and especially the air, off.
You raise an excellent point, and if I get time, I will test it out.
The grow I am running now, uses little in the way of airstones.
I just changed my res, but once it stabilizes, I'll turn off the air for a few hours, and measure the PH, before and after.
Thanks for posting, you lit a fire under my ass, to see if I can prove this true/false, as it applies to hydro.
Regards

ok i figured as much. you know when your growing and shit happens and you have a feeling but don't know what and then you think "could it be . . . nah nah nah, it couldn't be that" then i said fuck it let me just ask the question and see what ppl say or come back with since it just seems to make some sort of sense just didn't know the specifics as to how.

seriously man, thanks for hitting up the thread with your response seems i touched on another factor of growing that could use some research.

 

[FRIENDinDEED]

Always check your ph while pumps are off.. Otherwise you can get false readings..

hey SP, im running DWC's and my pumps are never off. I think that's why I thought about the airpumps being a factor because its a closed/stand alone system so how could anything get in it if its closed? then it hit me about the pumps.

so now I gotta ask, is there some point in time that I should be turning my airpumps off? ive never notice anyone talk about or mention that before.

just thinking about it, maybe at lights off?

ive seen other methods where airstones/pumps aren't even used, think its called the kratsky method. was a vid about a water garden that used floating tables. the plant pots satin styrafoam boards that floated on the water and got nutes that way.

sounded and looked interesting but im too chicken shit to try it.

 

[FRIENDinDEED]

Theoretically, yes. As carbon dioxide from the air is absorbed into water it creates a weak carbonic acid, which can cause the water to become more acidic. The only time I've noticed it is if I take a pH reading on a fresh batch of RO water and then check it again in a couple of days. I seriously doubt the effect would be noticeable in a rez full nutes.

the pH issues that Im having though are with the pH actually dropping. the pH was at 6 when I started and then after a week it dropped to like 7 or 8, I mean the fucking water turned blue when I pH tested it, and the testing liwuid is fresh.

I started off my DWC's with the nutes first; let them bubble for a couple days while the roots of the cuts caught up and the plants got a lil bigger

ive also read on ic that its a good idea to let your nutes acclimate to the space before you put your nutes in, in other words don't add the nutes and then add your plnats right away, you should add your nutes, let the bucket/water level out and then add your plants.

 

[FRIENDinDEED]

I thought airborn bacteria may be the cause as well as carbon dioxide. Ph rises when slime shows up. I hope someone elaborates further. I know my well water is thick with bacteria. Shit kills goldfish. I think it's related. Much better luck with waterfall than air pump in a Rez.

im not saying that it couldn't happen but are those spores small enough to get through the pores of the stones?

damn maybe its time to get these pumps in some manner of filter

 

[FRIENDinDEED]

the grow is in a sectioned off portion of my garage, it was dusty before but after I cleaned it its not dusty as much now.

its unfinished and drafty so these are factors that also had me In mind to ask about the probability that the pH fluctuations or dropping could be caused by the pumps.

I wanted to wait awhile to finish the spot off with drywall/insulation/proper ventilation and electrical but this cat I know from my old job tossed some cuts my way in trying to get away from the current partnership hes in with another grower.

he knows that my grow conditions aren't optimal and is willing to take the chance along with me so it is what it is. im not really gonna be throwing up and diaries or anything anyway, after sandy zapped my last grow, im kinda on karma eggshells in the sense that I don't wanna jinx anything.

I don't wanna start with the "yeah yeah yeah, im growin this blah blah blah and my shit is fire! yeah son!" and all the while im saying and talking shit the fucking storm is forming off the coast of Africa with my name on it.


ok, weve got a strong yes on the airpumps, and a probable bacteria, can anyone else think of something via the airstones that could cause pH fluctuations or cause it to drop after a week.

the plants are in veg right now and I honestly don't know too much about them so I don't really expect tehm to be big eaters already although I could be wrong about that. its no big deal though , I just pH'd the water and kept it moving buti tested it the other day and noticed the color was a lil off so im thinking " damn, I just pH'ed this shit!"

one of the leaves even changed color and I know its because I pHe'ed the water and made it kinda hot, its just the one plant though and the other two are doing fine, took the acid like a champ

oh what im growing is in the sig, but here's the link to the site and strain info: http://www.blimburnseeds.com/kabrales-by-blimburn.html

 

[oldnslow]

PH dropping

PH dropping

Just thought i'd offer my own experience with this. I sometimes grow in the laundry room...Its about 10ft x 10 ft with a washer and dryer. My rez ph also drops in this environment, while rez ph from two other areas that get a constant air exchange do not.

My estimation for this is because the plants are producing co2 that remains in the room. That is then pulled into the air pump and infused into the nutes. Whether that's the actual cause from a scientific point.....I dunno. A fresh batch on nutes seem to hold the ph for a couple weeks, and then it starts to drop. I can add ph up every few days and it seems to be fine for growing.

Bacteria growth will also drop the ph and cause root rot. Anytime my rez begins to get cloudy, its time for a new batch. It dosent happen very often....generally in the summer when we are in an extended hot stretch.

 

[FRIENDinDEED]

Just thought i'd offer my own experience with this. I sometimes grow in the laundry room...Its about 10ft x 10 ft with a washer and dryer. My rez ph also drops in this environment, while rez ph from two other areas that get a constant air exchange do not.

My estimation for this is because the plants are producing co2 that remains in the room. That is then pulled into the air pump and infused into the nutes. Whether that's the actual cause from a scientific point.....I dunno. A fresh batch on nutes seem to hold the ph for a couple weeks, and then it starts to drop. I can add ph up every few days and it seems to be fine for growing.

Bacteria growth will also drop the ph and cause root rot. Anytime my rez begins to get cloudy, its time for a new batch. It dosent happen very often....generally in the summer when we are in an extended hot stretch.

that's interesting, my area is only a few feet bigger than yours in both directions and its only 3 small plants

how many plants do you have in the room may I ask? I admit I have to find a way to get some manner of fresh air in there whether or not what your saying is an actual factor

brb . . . OK IM BACK, thinking about my water, its not cloudy or anything, ice been checking the pH daily ever since the last time so I would have noticed that shit, I want to add a lil EWC to the water for the bene's but im terrified of what may happen.

 

[Skunkpassion]

the pH issues that Im having though are with the pH actually dropping. the pH was at 6 when I started and then after a week it dropped to like 7 or 8, I mean the fucking water turned blue when I pH tested it, and the testing liwuid is fresh.

I started off my DWC's with the nutes first; let them bubble for a couple days while the roots of the cuts caught up and the plants got a lil bigger

ive also read on ic that its a good idea to let your nutes acclimate to the space before you put your nutes in, in other words don't add the nutes and then add your plnats right away, you should add your nutes, let the bucket/water level out and then add your plants.

Hi mate, if I'm understanding you correctly your ph is rising rather than dropping..
General rule is:
If your EC is Rising and the PH is Dropping = add less nutes.
If your PH is Rising and your EC is Dropping = add more nutes.
If your EC is Stable and your PH is Rising slowly =sweetspot.

A ph pen would do you good...

 

[FRIENDinDEED]

Hi mate, if I'm understanding you correctly your ph is rising rather than dropping..
General rule is:
If your EC is Rising and the PH is Dropping = add less nutes.
If your PH is Rising and your EC is Dropping = add more nutes.
If your EC is Stable and your PH is Rising slowly =sweetspot.

A ph pen would do you good...

yeah cousin, sorry about that, im still tryin to get my head around the whole pH thing, as far as remembering which way is up and which way is down. so if it was @ 7.8 - 8.? when I tested it and I added 1cc of pH down per gallon and brought it to 5.? - 6.0 then that's bringing it up?

im really trying to do it without the pen, I was in the hydro store the other day and was reminded why I have such a hard time getting one of those, for some that may be a drop in the bucket , for me right now that kind of money can either buy food or pay a necessary bill. don't have it like that right now.

and the other reason is that I knew a guy that grew his plants without a pen, just plain ol' watched and put attention to his plants and they came out fine, so I am trying to have lightning strike twice.

 

[TheCleanGame]

---Snip---

 

[overbudjet]

If your room is sealed and Co2 enhanced, the air pump will inject air and Co2 in water=PH drop every time.Instead of air pump i add o2 to my system by using waterfall effect.

 

[FRIENDinDEED]

If your room is sealed and Co2 enhanced, the air pump will inject air and Co2 in water=PH drop every time.Instead of air pump i add o2 to my system by using waterfall effect.

doing DWC right now so no way to do a waterfall. I was poking around a thread about a guy using those 10-12gl water filters, the thread was mainly focused on the fact that the biofilter kept the water so clean, but im thinking now that maybe that would be the best way to go at this point.

payday is tomorrow, so I think I will get one and put it one of the buckets

with all of the responses that are coming into the thread im kinda pissed man. always thought this was the thing to do and I set everything up properly and it seems like its leading to more shit ive go to go through.

always read that the more bubbles in DWC the better, I mean don't get me wrong, of course more research and testing has to be done, but it seems that the concencus is leading to the probability that it may be the damned pumps, smh.

welp silver lining to it all I guess is that im not too far into this grow so I may be able to get things straightened out before I go any further down the rabbit hole.

so glad I didn't start a diary this time around, seems that it would have ended abruptly with failure, again, as well.

anyways guys, thanks for the responses an keep the ideas and experiences coming, its still a work in progress so im not licked yet.

actually watching elementary and gonna go test things after the show

EDIT: not a sealed room, no co2 enhancements or anything like that. very drafty garage/ smoke spot. I burn incense most of the time and within hours any smell or remnants are gone. isn't the most scientific of indicators but then again I truly believe in common sense.

 

[overbudjet]

Aquarium filter will do both waterfall effect and it's a biofilter as well, may be tricky to install in some setup

 

[FRIENDinDEED]

Aquarium filter will do both waterfall effect and it's a biofilter as well, may be tricky to install in some setup

maybe tricky but definitely easy to do, a guy started a thread about those very same filters that they sell at walmart. he got one for his rez and because of how well it worked he was thinking about putting them in his other DWC systems.

im more than willing to make this shit a whole lot easier. had the shit scared outta me today; went to check the pH after leaving the pumps off for a day with the lights on and noticed some "brown stuff" at the bottom of the bucket, on the tubing and on the roots. . . .breathe . . . I chilled out and made sure that nothing was slimey or anything. it actually felt grainly and then I had an epiphany . . .

what I think it was is when I put the cuts into the buckets I knocked off most of the dirt but not all of it, so im thinking that the residual soil from the transplant made its way into the buckets.

so im gonna strain them properly, rinse/wash the buckets out and put everything back in and check the pH again.

after I added the pH down its been holding steady at 5.8 - 6.0, I noticed some slight discoloration in the biggest plant's pH test though but nothing crazy.

needless to say im gonna be checking the pH regulary; ive checked with the pumps off and from now on its with the pumps on so I can see if there are actually any differences and take it from there.

im learning this plant and don't know it too well so I have no choice but to learn it on my own especially since there is little to no outside grow information on it. I guess a tester pen would help but im good with the way things are, plant response has been nominal and nothing wacky or crazy is happening so keeping my fingers crossed.

im really hoping that this grow kinda puts in the success column after so many failures as of recent.

i'll throw som pics up of what ive got going on in a few days, i know how things can get around here, some ppl don't need pics but honestly were all visual creatures and whats better to look at than a healthy cannabis plant in hydro

be back

 

[D's]

Growing is fun and challenging, indoors your right of passage (hazing) is bugs (mites) then, when you switch to water culture more so than hydro (peat is hydro) another lesson must be learned.
Dead rez or living Rez?
Hurry up, I don't think you have much time before you smell death. When leaves die roots are dying is what I have learned. I don't know much as I just learned how to control the water where I live. Like I said earlier bacteria competes for food. Feed the better bacteria. Or use pool shock, I don't know that recipe. Household unscented bleach works too. I believe your plants are slowly drowning without the right tools to help them breath underwater. Dissolved oxygen I believe is a myth, dig a hole outside and it's wet, but indoors it must dry out. No worms indoors....no worm poop ever touched your water (well water probably). Brew the ewc tea, take a smell of it should smell like dirt and water 48hrs after brewing. People from another forum elaborated on the tea quite a bit, I read over 300 pages, spent some coin, and earned my rights. Good luck. And if your early enough it will work, last run I rushed my setup added plants too soon and even with tea, problems erupted and I resorted to handwatering to save my losses, no casualties lucky me. If I misunderstood your ph problem then this won't help, my ph would go to 7-8 within a week. I also use ro water and have never had my ph go below 5.2 without nutes or ph adjusters.
And those bio filters work well, I think I got mine for $12. Good bacteria needs a home before the rootzone is large enough. Use plastic chain to hang it in your rez. Again good luck.