Death By Germs...

[Wiggs Dannyboy]

We all gonna die. Death is a powerful force in our lives because there just isn't any way around it. People go to sometimes incredible effort to delay death. Modern medicine has extended our life expectancies by decades. The most important advance in medicine that extended our lives was the discovery and use of antibiotics around the year 1930. Of course there were many other advances that helped, but without antibiotics many of these wouldn't be of any help. Back in the day, if you stepped on a rusty nail, you'd possibly be pushing daisies.

I remember back when I was in high school science classes in the mid 1970's learning about antibiotics, and how there was an ongoing battle between the bacteria (germs) and the medicine made to kill them. The bacteria had such short life spans, and numbered in the billions, that they were especially able to eventually mutate into a new version that was no longer affected by the medicine.

I remember back in the 1980's hearing about these new drug resistant bacteria which were no longer being as effective fighting off these germs. I remember back in the 1990's about particular antibiotics that could no longer be used to fight off certain bacterial infections, other antibiotics that were stronger (and more dangerous to humans) had to be substituted. The picture painted for me in my 1970's science class seemed to be happening in real life.

We had been warned over the previous decades that we were using antibiotics in ways that were dangerous. We were alerted to our meat producers who were using antibiotics in huge amounts to make raising their animals for slaughter more efficient and profitable. Now, it would seem, the chickens have come home to roost.

Frontline's (PBS) most recent documentary that aired a few days ago is about where we sit in relation to our bacterial nemesis today. It is fascinating, but is depressing as hell. It should also be required viewing for anybody who gives a shit about our civilization, because we are precariously close to being overwhelmed by germs that we no longer have weapons to fight them with. Anybody who likes livin' should care about this, anybody who is a parent with kids and wants them to live a nice life should really really care about this.

Please watch this hour long program, we can't fix this until we acknowledge the problem.

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/hunting-the-nightmare-bacteria/

 

[BlueBlazer]

We will defeat them with nano-bots

 

[Agaricus]

It's a really scary situation. Physicians are for the most part on board with reducing antibiotic use but their almost universal abuse in the meat industry is rampant. Factory feedlots need to be HEAVILY regulated and subject to debilitating fines for overuse of antibiotics.

The meat producers, their apologists and meat-loving consumers bitch about rising prices but that's not necessarily a bad thing. It would suck, because I sure do love a good steak or pork chop, but a whole lot of bad things would be helped by more reliance on vegetable protien.

But then there's Monsanto......

 

[ydijadoit]

Thanks, Wiggs.
My friend's Grandfather was severely mentally ill, lived alone, and would eat rotten cat food, and tuna all the time, I mean literally moldy, with the occasional maggot. His home looked like an episode of Hoarders.
It was simply unreal to go visit him, and very hard not to vomit, but he was who he was, and a proud man, in his own right..
He died at 89 years old, after having prostate cancer for 15 years. He never really got sick, other than an occasional cold.
Point is, his natural bacterial immunity must have been off the charts.
I haven't watched the show yet, but after my experience watching him, I will.
I rarely take antibiotics, and we don't use "Antibacterial" soap around here. Just wash and dry.
Nature has a way of taking out the garbage, and we are so damned arrogant, as a species.
Regards

 

[Wiggs Dannyboy]

We will defeat them with nano-bots View Image

Hadn't thought about the little little little etc guys, but you might be correct about our next move being nano bots. If so, will we start calling them by a new nickname....nanners?

 

[Wiggs Dannyboy]

Thanks, Wiggs.
My friend's Grandfather was severely mentally ill, lived alone, and would eat rotten cat food, and tuna all the time, I mean literally moldy, with the occasional maggot. His home looked like an episode of Hoarders.
It was simply unreal to go visit him, and very hard not to vomit, but he was who he was, and a proud man, in his own right..
He died at 89 years old, after having prostate cancer for 15 years. He never really got sick, other than an occasional cold.
Point is, his natural bacterial immunity must have been off the charts.
I haven't watched the show yet, but after my experience watching him, I will.
I rarely take antibiotics, and we don't use "Antibacterial" soap around here. Just wash and dry.
Nature has a way of taking out the garbage, and we are so damned arrogant, as a species.
Regards

I recently saw another program, or report, on this very thing. I wish I could remember where I saw it...but it basically was connecting our use of "everything antibiotic" with our species recent problems in our digestive tracts. Basically just what you say, when we have to maintain our bodies immunity by fighting these little germs in our guts, we stay healthy, but when we don't have to maintain our immune systems, shit starts to go to hell. I'll have to go and see if I can find that, if I do I'll post it.

 

[siftedunity]

you forget to mention the medical advances which completely outway the negatives. what about the virus which have been completely eradicated?? unfortunately weather you like it or not, there will always be disease, there always has been and most likely always will. I agree that antibiotics shouldn't be used on lifestock though.

 

[mrcreosote]

I don't get it. You're born, you live, you die. That's it.
You could worry a lot about dying but it's a waste of time and energy, cause you sure as shit gonna die, no matter what.
Don't get me wrong... I'm all for postponing my visit from Mr.Grim but I ain't sweating bullets either cuz Mr. Grim doesn't forget nobody.

I'm actually looking forward to the occasion from a curiosity standpoint. I'll finally find out who's been making shit up and who's for real.
That Hell business has the potential to be a real problem if it's true but hey, what the hell...at least you'll be with your friends. Worse that that is having to hang around in the dirt until Judgement Day and STILL having to go Hell. Boring. (Who cooks this crap up anyway?)

Superbugs maybe...radiation possibly...Crosstown bus? unlikely, but you never know.
Plain old age and going in your sleep is about as good as it's gonna get, unless your the flamboyant type and want to exit early in a blaze of glory.
That ain't me.

It's just the period on the story of your life, so make it a good story.

 

[Wiggs Dannyboy]

you forget to mention the medical advances which completely outway the negatives. what about the virus which have been completely eradicated?? unfortunately weather you like it or not, there will always be disease, there always has been and most likely always will. I agree that antibiotics shouldn't be used on lifestock though.

I can tell you didn't watch the program yet. You really should, I bet it would be new information for you that would change how you feel about it.

It seems like you are only speaking to the use of antibiotics in our farm animals...that's just a subsection of the big problem, the big problem being that our species is up against an enemy that has defeated almost all of our defenses against them. And the really scary part is that we are very possibly up against the tipping point in this war, and we might soon see our society decimated by the inability to combat simple, but deadly, germs.

If you watch the program, you'll see how much effort and labor and cost that goes into saving just one of the story subjects. Imagine if our health care and hospital systems had to deal with hundreds of new sick people every day. Our society wouldn't be able to cope with that, and we'd soon see scenes like the one in Monty Python...which movie was that one?....the guys pulling a wagon full of dead bodies and shouting out "bring out your dead." Funny scene in the movie, not so funny for real.

Cross your fingers for the nanobot revolution...

 

[BlueBlazer]

I agree with mrcreosote. When you're time has come, it has come. Spend the time before that living the best you can.

IMHO fear of death is the main push behind all religions. That, and a compulsive need to feel like we're special and must have some other destiny. Maybe, maybe not.


As you say, we'll all find out.

 

[BlueBlazer]

@ Wiggs - My pet theory tonight is that we are just the evolutionary precursor to the electronic life we are creating as we speak. Eventually, the homo sapiens will go the way of the dinosaur and cyber life will dominate the earth. Perhaps attaining interstellar travel and contacting other forms of life . . . and assimilating them.

 

[Wiggs Dannyboy]

I agree with mrcreosote. When you're time has come, it has come. Spend the time before that living the best you can.

IMHO fear of death is the main push behind all religions. That, and a compulsive need to feel like we're special and must have some other destiny. Maybe, maybe not.


As you say, we'll all find out.

Well, you fellas aren't looking at the big picture here. I understand your viewpoint as far as our own personal date with death goes, but what could happen is basically the equivalent of a pandemic flu or even the plague over in europe centuries ago.

If mass quantities of people start to die from infections, even if you aren't one of 'em, many family members and friends will die, and that will certainly impact your life in a bad way unless you got a cold cold heart.

Then, you have to figure what's going to happen to our nice littel society we have formed, all the little things that make living nowadays comfy...like supermarkets and gas stations and fire departments, and all the other things that we count on to live our lives. All these new dead people will have had jobs, and they won't be working those jobs no more. Hospitals will quickly be overcome and won't be able to treat anybody, unless you're rich and famous.

The problem isn't only the person dying earlier than would be expected, the problem is you could be one of the people who doesn't die, and has to live in a broken society, minus most of the things that have modern life a fairly comfy affair.

Its the big picture you have to look at.

 

[BlueBlazer]

Wiggs, my big picture doesn't include worrying about a fate that may be in my future.

My big picture is today, right now. It's all we really have.


btw ~ if I do become a survivor of a super virus . . . I'll just have to move to Bolder and make my Stand.

 

[trichrider]

count on your uncle.

that was a fugly piece. sad and somehow appropriate for this time of year.
scaring the shit outta little old ladies and vulnerable sleeples.

earlier this month i was reading about new virus gubmint lab produced with no antidote.
suspicious of where these are originating since most pharm companies pulled out of antibiotic r&d and all of these superbugs are appearing...

stay fly!

 

[Wiggs Dannyboy]

count on your uncle.

scaring the shit outta little old ladies and vulnerable sleeples.

I don't understand either one of these sentences...is that first one related someway to "bob's your uncle?"

Second sentence seems like your suggesting the program was basically full of shit, either because it is making a mountain out of a molehill, or was designed more as a piece of propaganda without much truth.

Please clarify Trich...

 

[legalizeDK]

if we are ever in a situation were we cant treat a simple infection then godbye modern day medicine. you could die from a urinary tract infection. or you will not be able to have surgery because you will risk infection you cant treat

 

[Slip Kid]

Back in the 70's I remember The Guinness Book of World Records which I read religiously had "the longest time gone without taking a bath". I think it was some street person from the UK but either way what I remember is that after they forced a bath on him, he died....I'll watch the video now. Watched the whole show, great link, just amazing!

 

[Wiggs Dannyboy]

if we are ever in a situation were we cant treat a simple infection then goodbye modern day medicine. you could die from a urinary tract infection. or you will not be able to have surgery because you will risk infection you cant treat

This is the thing. People will begin dying left and right, which certainly will suck in many ways, but the most impactive will be that they will no longer be able to their jobs, and after a while this will significantly impact societies ability to function. If you don't have the imagination to picture this, there have been many dystopian novels written that paint a nice ugly picture for you.

As bad as the 1918 flu was, as bad as the plague was, both of these had time constraints...these basically kept killing people until everybody who was left had an inner immunity and there was nobody left to kill and the organisms died out. I don't think there would be the same time constraint with infections, and it wouldn't stop until we humans devised some new weapon to use against them. If we had to mount a big scientific research program while our society was in the middle of being decimated by a plague of germ infections....who knows if our research programs would be effective in that scenario.

It could end up being a nightmare like we've never seen. And the Frontline program basically is telling us that we are very possibly at the TIPPING POINT of this problem.

Malcolm Gladwell authored a great book, called "The Tipping Point: How Little Things Can Make A Big Difference." It is a great book and it's easy to read and everybody should read it. It applies to all kinds of different things in our lives, but most importantly here it applies to the situation being discussed in this thread.

From the books description on Amazon:

The tipping point is that magic moment when an idea, trend, or social behavior crosses a threshold, tips, and spreads like wildfire. Just as a single sick person can start an epidemic of the flu, so too can a small but precisely targeted push cause a fashion trend, the popularity of a new product, or a drop in the crime rate. This widely acclaimed bestseller, in which Malcolm Gladwell explores and brilliantly illuminates the tipping point phenomenon, is already changing the way people throughout the world think about selling products and disseminating ideas.

http://www.amazon.com/The-Tipping-P...4&sr=8-1&keywords=the+tipping+point+paperback

 

[Wiggs Dannyboy]

I'd be interested to hear what people think about the actual documentary...has anybody besides slipkid watched it? I understand that one hour of time isn't as easy as a little 3 minute youtube clip...but an hour isn't THAT long...

If you have taken the time to actually watch the program...please post up how you feel about it.

 

[Rromack]

Cannabis plant extracts can effectively fight drug-resistant bacteria.

http://abcnews.go.com/Technology/story?id=5787866&page=1#!