what am I doing wrong?

[oscarthegrouch]

How long has this problem been going on?
about 5 days

What STRAIN are you growing?
Southern lights, Ghost train haze 8, and white fire. The only plants effected are the southern lights.

What was the establishing technique? (seed or clone?)
seeds

What is the age of your plants?
5 weeks veg + 3 weeks flower

How long have they been in the soil mixture they are in now?
3.5 weeks

Were they in the same mixture when they were seedlings/smaller plant? If not, what mixture were they in before?
yes same mixture

How Tall are the plants?
3.5 ft

What PHASE (seedling, vegetative or flower) are the plants in?
3 weeks into flower

What size pots are you using? (Include how many subjects to pot)
3 gallon

What substrate/medium are you using? What brand of soil mixture are you using?(percentage of perlite, vermiculite...etc?)
canna bio terra plus

What brand Nutrient's are you using?
biocanna

How much of each nutrient are you using with how much water? *Knowing the brand is very helpful*
15ml per gallon of flores, 8ml gallon bio boost, cannazyme & rhizotonic

How often are you feeding?
every other watering

If flowering, when did you switch over to using Bloom nutrients?
3 days ago

What order are you mixing your nutrients? (example: veg nutes 1st, bloom 2nd ect)
flores, boost, rhizotonic, then cannazyme

What is the TDS/EC/PPM of your nutrients used?
not salt based, doesn't measure properly

What is the pH of the "RUN-OFF"?
haven't been measuring runoff ph, was told it was not necessary with biocanna

How often are you testing pH/ppm/EC/TDS?
test ph evertime, tends to be 6.4-6.8

What method of pH test was administered? Using Strips? pH pen?
ph pen

How often are you watering?
when the pots feel light, every 3 to 4 days

When was your last feeding and how often are you feeding?
last feeding was yesterday, I feed every other watering

What size bulb are you using?
Gavita pro 1000 on 1150W

How old is your bulbs?
3 months

What is the distance to the canopy?
3 ft

What is your RH Factor? (Relative Humidity)
37%

What is the canopy temperature?
78F

What is the Day/Night Temp? (Include fluctuation range)
68F-80F

What is the current Air Flow? (cfm etc.)
420cfm

Tell us about your ventilation, intake exhaust and when its running and not running ?
fans run 24/7

Is the fan blowing directly at plants?
yes

Is the grow substrate constantly wet or moist?
no

Is your water HARD or SOFT?
somewhat hard

What water are you using? Reverse Osmosis (RO)? Tap? Bottled?
Well water? Distilled? Mineral Water?
tap water, I let it sit 24 hrs before using it.

If using tap water, what is the ppm/EC/TDS of the water right out of the tap?(Only if you have a tds pen)
EC 0.2

Are you using water from a water softener?
no

Has plant been recently pruned, cloned or pinched?
no

Have any pest chemicals been used? If so what and when?
vecto-bac for the past 3.5 weeks (BTI bacteria)

Are plant's infected with pest's?
Fungus gnats, They are pretty much dead now.






It's my first time using biocanna. I was told to run bio vega for the first 2-3 weeks of flower to avoid low nitrogen problems. about 2.5 weeks into flower a few plants started to develop the problem seen in these pictures. It only has effected the lower leaves. 3 weeks into flower I switched to bio flores. The plants still seem to be getting worse. They looked great until about a week ago. anyone know what I'm doing wrong here?

 

[Snype]

Here are problems that I see.

1. Your soil seems to have no perlite in it for air. Plants may droop after a full watering because of this.

2. I'm not familiar with your nutrient line but it seems like you are nuting too often for soil unless you are using 1/4 feed dose. I nute every 2-3 weeks and give at least 2 waterings after every nute.

3. I believe your soil pH is out of line and you should perform a run off test to see where your soil pH is. Your soil pH for soil should be at 6.4 when you put in 6.8 water.

 

[Midnight Tokar]

Do you know if your water has chlorine or chloromine in it? If it has chloramine , letting it sit 24 hours won't do anything as it won't evaporate. It looks like you may have a lockout going on and possibly from the excess chlorine. Maybe try flushing with RO water and then use RO for feeding and watering.
It will also kill your bene's and make it hard for your plant to eat.

 

[oscarthegrouch]

ok so next watering I'll check the runoff ph. And guess I should feed plain water the next few waterings until the runoff returns to around 6.4? The instructions for biocanna say you don't need to check ph and that its very hard to over feed with it. I guess it was too good to be true. It's just those two southern lights giving me problems, the other plants look great. I'm not too worried about the droopiness, the bio terra holds allot of water, once they dry up a bit it goes away. I guess I'm confused. I thought ph wasn't a big deal with organics?

 

[Snype]

ok so next watering I'll check the runoff ph. And guess I should feed plain water the next few waterings until the runoff returns to around 6.4? The instructions for biocanna say you don't need to check ph and that its very hard to over feed with it. I guess it was too good to be true. It's just those two southern lights giving me problems, the other plants look great.

I don't like to listen to what bottles say because they are just trying to sell you a product. If the bottle is right, then your run off will be in line. Only way to find out is to check. You have to go through the process of elimination to find your problem/problems. I like to start at pH first because that is the cause of a lot of people's problems. After that I'd have a look at the lights you are using. I hear those lights are pretty powerful and need to be set pretty high above the canopy. Personally I would turn them down to a lower setting until you fix your problem. That could as well be a variable that is off. I think you said you had it set to 1150 watts. I'd go down a step or 2. Oh now that I think of it I see your problems are all focused on 2 plants of the same strain. Maybe their feed has to be adjusted accordingly and they don't like the formula you are giving.

 

[bluenorth]

Three weeks in flower is when a fungus gnat or root aphid problem starts to show in the leaves. Are you sure it's not aphid's? BTI won't touch them, I think it's marginal on gnats as well. Looking at your sticky trap you've got a problem. For every flier, there is a zillion eating your roots

 

[oscarthegrouch]

Three weeks in flower is when a fungus gnat or root aphid problem starts to show in the leaves. Are you sure it's not aphid's? BTI won't touch them, I think it's marginal on gnats as well. Looking at your sticky trap you've got a problem. For every flier, there is a zillion eating your roots

No aphids, just gnats. The traps are about 4 weeks old that's why they are so full. I see the odd gnat now and then but they are pretty well gone. The vecto-bac took care of them pretty quickly. 3 weeks ago there where hundreds of them though.

 

[TanzanianMagic]

[URL=https://www.icmag.com/ic/userimages/thumbnails/1152/5ae410a351824af4bcd635f5f1ae5fd2_1152829.jpg?dl=1382237687]View Image[/URL][URL=https://www.icmag.com/ic/userimages/thumbnails/1152/d8ac348120d756ba5d41479458eb1b4e_1152828.jpg?dl=1382237687]View Image[/URL][URL=https://www.icmag.com/ic/userimages/thumbnails/1153/fbf38a2060c1655e4b8426d4ae7ff2a1_1153232.jpg?dl=1382317171]View Image[/URL][URL=https://www.icmag.com/ic/userimages/thumbnails/1153/81c80d640756ae73de95aeb6ca8170a6_1153230.jpg?dl=1382317171]View Image[/URL][URL=https://www.icmag.com/ic/userimages/thumbnails/1153/ec51b802d5cd16fe0f35120de716b52b_1153233.jpg?dl=1382317171]View Image[/URL]

The curling up of the leaves could be P deficiency/lockout, especially at 3 weeks flowering.

This could be a combination of the plant flowering, and P or K lockout from low temperatures.

You should also look into having enough Calcium for your plants (I like rock phosphate, but bonemeal would work too).

If the leaves and plants smell like an old locker, you could have mildew and air circulation problems too.

Give your plants a good flush with low EC nutrient solution, and then feed a regular EC nutrient solution.

Also, you should use more perlite and a good drainage/aeration layer at the bottom of the pot and a thin horizontal layer of perlite at least at the center of the pot. Container plants need to get rid of water as much as they need roots with access to air for gas exchange.

 

[TanzanianMagic]

No aphids, just gnats. The traps are about 4 weeks old that's why they are so full. I see the odd gnat now and then but they are pretty well gone. The vecto-bac took care of them pretty quickly. 3 weeks ago there where hundreds of them though.

You should try aerated worm tea with molasses and regularly pour it onto the foliage - that gets rid of most insects and bacterial/fungal infections, and the ones that are left can only do very limited damage.

 

[oscarthegrouch]

I thought maybe a P deficiency because I'm 3 weeks into flower on veg nutes. Hopefully that's it and things look better in a few days. The bioterra has no perlite in it, but it is very fast draining, by far more so then promix hp. I'll see how things look whent he lights come on. The plants smell good, but I will try the tea if the gnats come back. funny thing is I had a similar problem on my last grow about 3 weeks into flower using GH lucas formula. I thought I'd switch to biocanna since its supposed to be so fool proof, and I'm still getting the same problem.

 

[northerngrafta]

Sounds like an environment issue then....

 

[northerngrafta]

Had a bit of a better read I dunno about biocanna but most canna nutrients are farely weak so the general resolution for canna nutes is to flush and up the food see if u can find a bio canna thread but all the mineral ranges that would be the solution so it might be worth a try

 

[TanzanianMagic]

I thought maybe a P deficiency because I'm 3 weeks into flower on veg nutes. Hopefully that's it and things look better in a few days.

I noticed that the pots are standing on the floor, which could be too cold for them. You might try putting them on a crate or a bench of some sorts. P or K lockout could be root temperature related. Combine that with the onset of flowering, and the result will be major P deficiency and lockout.

Remember too that plants need extra calcium when they get into flowering. Some strains need a lot of calcium.

Also, you should filter the water anyway (even at an EC of 0.2, which is very low), and build it back up with calmag and some micro nutrient source. There are heavy metals in tapwater that you don't want in your plants, and chloramide if i'ts used by the water company can't evaporate out of water.

The best water source is of course rainwater. It doesn't need any amendments and seems to rejuvenate plants.

The bioterra has no perlite in it, but it is very fast draining, by far more so then promix hp. I'll see how things look whent he lights come on. The plants smell good, but I will try the tea if the gnats come back. funny thing is I had a similar problem on my last grow about 3 weeks into flower using GH lucas formula. I thought I'd switch to biocanna since its supposed to be so fool proof, and I'm still getting the same problem.

This year I've used Canna Terra Pro Plus with at least 30% perlite (washed in a tile to get rid of the dust, sand and other material heavier than water, which has the consistency of wallpaper glue), maybe upto 50%, with a layer of perlite as a drainage layer (only in smaller half a gallon pots, larger pots have a layer of grow rocks as well). I used extra rock phosphate and lava meal, and the clone I planted in it grew like crazy, with perfect leaves and not even a hint of nutrient burn. I also limit the total EC (Brita filtered water plus nutes) I used to no more than 1.0, before adding any molasses or epsom salts if necessary.

 

[Xanode]

If this helps: my experience with biocanna bases were that they were making my feed water PH plummet. My tap water is 100ppm, 7.5 PH, upon adding either vega or flores(bio) the ph dropped to around 4.5... also noticed that following canna sched on their site, a light feeding of either vega or flores brang ppm's to over 1500, i know with bio nutes the meters don't read it proper but i thought that was too high anyway...

I've read to use biocanna successfully the soil has to have the microbial life(or whatever is needed) to buffer PH and PPMs without the need of adjusting them before feeding.

In flower my soil plant looked like shit when i was just adding straight biocanna bases at recommended dosages in canna terra soil and not checking ppm's or PH, it was going to die id say. Upon doing a 50/50 mix of canna coco A+B and bioflores AND checking ppms AND PH, making sure its set to 6.5 the plant looks 200% better .... at my skill level biocanna on its own is not right for me at this time.

 

[TanzanianMagic]

It's my first time using biocanna. I was told to run bio vega for the first 2-3 weeks of flower to avoid low nitrogen problems. about 2.5 weeks into flower a few plants started to develop the problem seen in these pictures. It only has effected the lower leaves. 3 weeks into flower I switched to bio flores. The plants still seem to be getting worse. They looked great until about a week ago. anyone know what I'm doing wrong here?

The EC of your tapwater, 0.2 EC, is very low, and probably doesn't have all the magnesium and calcium in it that Canna may be adjusted for.

It looks like a lack of magnesium/magnesium lockout in early flowering - low ph or low floor temps may also aid the lockout? And of course early flowering is when cannabis needs an extra little magnesium/calcium.