sourpickle
New member
Thanks for the response. I'll give it a try on my holy smoke Malawi gold.
Granger what strain are you using it on?
Granger what strain are you using it on?
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12/1 lighting--Any truth or banana in the tail pipe?
- Thread starter tokinblackguy
- Start date
I tried it. It does keep stretch down but didnt shorten flowering times. (Posted a whole bunch here 5-6 pages back.)
I decided on a compromise between traditional lighting schedules and 12/1.
Now I run a 23 w cfl for 2 hrs, mh for 14 hrs, then the cfl for 2 hrs longer.
I like this much better than 12/1. It does reduce electricity usage while still giving the plants 18 hrs of light.
You could reduce to 16 hr day and give 3 hrs of cfl 12 mh 3 cfl. 5 additional hrs of a single 23 w cfl doesnt cost much.
I decided on a compromise between traditional lighting schedules and 12/1.
Now I run a 23 w cfl for 2 hrs, mh for 14 hrs, then the cfl for 2 hrs longer.
I like this much better than 12/1. It does reduce electricity usage while still giving the plants 18 hrs of light.
You could reduce to 16 hr day and give 3 hrs of cfl 12 mh 3 cfl. 5 additional hrs of a single 23 w cfl doesnt cost much.
sourpickle
New member
12/1 lighting--Any truth or banana in the tail pipe?
Thanks granger
Thanks granger
Lammy
Member
after rereading some of this thread I think it's important to note that the 12 + 1 lighting schedule makes the preflowers bulge. they get so big it makes it really easy to identify male and females. even if you're half blind. I know a couple of my friends told me that my plants had started flowering when I was running that light schedule. they refused to believe otherwise.
so looking back I think a lot of the people who posted in the thread that their plants started flowering under this light cycle just panicked when they saw the bulging preflowers and aborted the light cycle without even giving it a few weeks to see if it was actually flowering. well at least I believe that to be the case with anybody using HID lighting.
I won't and can't speak to the results from using CFL, T5 or fluorescent lights or whatever. I would want to use strong light to penetrate the canopy to break up the dark cycle. that being said I don't think it takes very long exposure time to break it up. I almost never did plus 1 hour I usually did plus 10 minutes all of the experiences I related have been with 1000 watt HPS exclusively. I would use 18/6 for clones and seedlings under t5s. but I don't veg using T 5 I only pre veg or root cuttings.
so looking back I think a lot of the people who posted in the thread that their plants started flowering under this light cycle just panicked when they saw the bulging preflowers and aborted the light cycle without even giving it a few weeks to see if it was actually flowering. well at least I believe that to be the case with anybody using HID lighting.
I won't and can't speak to the results from using CFL, T5 or fluorescent lights or whatever. I would want to use strong light to penetrate the canopy to break up the dark cycle. that being said I don't think it takes very long exposure time to break it up. I almost never did plus 1 hour I usually did plus 10 minutes all of the experiences I related have been with 1000 watt HPS exclusively. I would use 18/6 for clones and seedlings under t5s. but I don't veg using T 5 I only pre veg or root cuttings.
Last edited:
Lammy
Member
e_24
Active member
Most of last night and this morning I have been reading this thread from start to finish. I read up on this method about 2 years ago, and decided to give it a shot. The plant was a blueberry cross and a flowering clone. Flowering clones already have boosted growth, which I already knew from past runs, and te 12/1 schedule have me even more aggressive growth. Now I'm running a kush strain that stretches a lot in flowerso controlling stretch in my dr60 is a must. Love the electricity savings and plant structure. I'm sold
I will be doing this I think for my next grow, as smaller and bushier plants are really the goal here. I've read the ENTIRE thread to see what I can find out, and it makes sense for how it works.
I also don't think that higher amounts of light (24 hours, even 18 hours) generally is positive for most plants. Few plants are set up for more than 16 hours of intense lights ever naturally. Those that are near the poles are set for quick growth with those longer light cycles, but being out of their circadian cycles can really screw up animals I know so I would think that doing such can screw with plants. This can include both long light cycles as well as mid-night light periods.
Now, to figure out whether it DOES stress out the plants, there are a few ways to gauge this. Plants acting out of normal cycle is one, but also slower or faster growth can be another. I've looked a little bit to see what the growth rates are in 24 vs 20 vs 18 vs 16 hours, yet I've not found a lot of side by side comparisons to see how it really affects the plants.
Flowering sites and space as well as potency seems to be the focus with cannabis growers (duh!
), so question really is, how do we increase bud sites for the plants, allow enough room for the bud sites to expand to their potential without too much extra space, and how can we do this without losing potency and quality of the finished product?
From what I've READ both here and elsewhere, during vegitative states dealing with the 12/1 plan, the extra hour or such of lighting creates low levels of stress but also destroys flowering hormones within the plant so as it does not actually begin to flower even if it begins to prepare (some hormones created but not enough to push the plant over that edge). The middle-of-the-night lighting prevents the hormones from building the bud sites... On the other hand, maxing out the light at 24 hours non-stop is ineffective in light-to-growth size as the plant is not allowed to have it's rest period (it can deal without it's rest, but people can only go on so long running on caffeine!) - it is a stressor, although not a large one (From what I've read, about equal to the flashes or short nights broken by either long or short light periods).
Is the long dark period a stressor to the plants that kick it into a certain mode? It seems to be so - but as training can be a good stress on the plants and deadlines can be good for productivity at work, some stress can be good. Others can be bad (too much sugar/candy for people, too much nutes or water for plants...). It's the bad ones you have to watch out for - right?
Ok, so I'm a new grower of cannabis, but I've been gardening awhile and I read a LOT of info all the time. I'm just trying to make sense of all the info I've found.
I THINK this is a good way to help MOST strains reduce the stressed period of stretch (plants not concentrating on upward growth can focus on blooming and strength, right?) - although some may have a negative genetic factor that this does not work well with, just like some people are genetically predisposed to diabetes or cancer or epilepsy or blindness. Most people should have tons of fruit and veggies, but my husband must be cautious because of his ulcerative colitis...
If this also encourages a plant to have more flowers as topping can as well(like you can get mums to bloom more and be squatter by topping too!), then all the better! When I try, I'll likely top some of the plants and not others just to see what happens.
I like hearing about adding more time in the last week or so of flowering as well for more yield - I'm gonna look into that too as the more yield we have, the longer before we need to grow again in my home (we are growing for a medical supply for my husband's severe chronic pain problems that medications so far are unable to keep under control). All that can help us in a small scale operation will help.
One very odd part I find in all this, is not that the older growers are not talking about trying it (many older growers LIKELY prefer their way of doing things that work for them - it's normal in ANY area of life for one to stick to what they know when it works for them), but rather that there are claims that this is used by commercial growers but examples are NOT given. Although I've not looked into it yet... Next thing to explore!
WOOT! Found this about lighting adjustments on Mums:
Cyclic (intermittent) lighting. In mums, it is not necessary to continuously operate Inc lamps from 10 pm to 2 am each night to achieve LD conditions. With 20 ft-c intensity from Inc lamps, lights need to be on only for 5% of a 30-minute period (28« minutes dark/1« minutes light) from 10 pm until 2 am to insure vegetative growth. With 10 ft-c intensity from Inc lamps, lights need to be on only for 20% of a 30-minute period (24 minutes dark/6 minutes light) from 10 pm until 2 am to insure vegetative growth. Thus, the percentage of time that lamps are operating is dependent on the light intensity received by the plants. In commercial operations, growers use night-interruption lighting (10 pm until 2 am) and cyclic lighting (24 minutes dark/8 minutes light) with Inc lamps at ¯10 ft-c. A cyclic lighting programmer (available from *******., Inc.) allows for 4 separate lighting circuits, and each circuit can be turned on for 8 minutes (1r8, 9r16, 17r24, and 25r32 minutes); this allows cyclic lighting for 4 separate zones. The cyclic lighting programmer can reduce photoperiod lighting costs by up to 75%.
Ok, proof that this sort of thing IS used to keep plants in veg state to bring down costs of lighting. NOW, the question is how much lighting is enough to optimize what is desired in the plant? Is longer veg time a decent trade-off (dependant on the situation) for money savings on electricity?
I'm for the trying of it to see. Actually, I have the ability to try a couple plants on 24/0 vs others on 12/5/2/5 with SAME lights just to see what happens with the veg cycle, and then flower in same situation to see how the results are. I can't do a LOT, but at least it will maybe show a little bit of what happens.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, old thread and all. But I'm interested!
I also don't think that higher amounts of light (24 hours, even 18 hours) generally is positive for most plants. Few plants are set up for more than 16 hours of intense lights ever naturally. Those that are near the poles are set for quick growth with those longer light cycles, but being out of their circadian cycles can really screw up animals I know so I would think that doing such can screw with plants. This can include both long light cycles as well as mid-night light periods.
Now, to figure out whether it DOES stress out the plants, there are a few ways to gauge this. Plants acting out of normal cycle is one, but also slower or faster growth can be another. I've looked a little bit to see what the growth rates are in 24 vs 20 vs 18 vs 16 hours, yet I've not found a lot of side by side comparisons to see how it really affects the plants.
Flowering sites and space as well as potency seems to be the focus with cannabis growers (duh!
), so question really is, how do we increase bud sites for the plants, allow enough room for the bud sites to expand to their potential without too much extra space, and how can we do this without losing potency and quality of the finished product?From what I've READ both here and elsewhere, during vegitative states dealing with the 12/1 plan, the extra hour or such of lighting creates low levels of stress but also destroys flowering hormones within the plant so as it does not actually begin to flower even if it begins to prepare (some hormones created but not enough to push the plant over that edge). The middle-of-the-night lighting prevents the hormones from building the bud sites... On the other hand, maxing out the light at 24 hours non-stop is ineffective in light-to-growth size as the plant is not allowed to have it's rest period (it can deal without it's rest, but people can only go on so long running on caffeine!) - it is a stressor, although not a large one (From what I've read, about equal to the flashes or short nights broken by either long or short light periods).
Is the long dark period a stressor to the plants that kick it into a certain mode? It seems to be so - but as training can be a good stress on the plants and deadlines can be good for productivity at work, some stress can be good. Others can be bad (too much sugar/candy for people, too much nutes or water for plants...). It's the bad ones you have to watch out for - right?
Ok, so I'm a new grower of cannabis, but I've been gardening awhile and I read a LOT of info all the time. I'm just trying to make sense of all the info I've found.
I THINK this is a good way to help MOST strains reduce the stressed period of stretch (plants not concentrating on upward growth can focus on blooming and strength, right?) - although some may have a negative genetic factor that this does not work well with, just like some people are genetically predisposed to diabetes or cancer or epilepsy or blindness. Most people should have tons of fruit and veggies, but my husband must be cautious because of his ulcerative colitis...
If this also encourages a plant to have more flowers as topping can as well(like you can get mums to bloom more and be squatter by topping too!), then all the better!
When I try, I'll likely top some of the plants and not others just to see what happens.I like hearing about adding more time in the last week or so of flowering as well for more yield - I'm gonna look into that too as the more yield we have, the longer before we need to grow again in my home (we are growing for a medical supply for my husband's severe chronic pain problems that medications so far are unable to keep under control). All that can help us in a small scale operation will help.
One very odd part I find in all this, is not that the older growers are not talking about trying it (many older growers LIKELY prefer their way of doing things that work for them - it's normal in ANY area of life for one to stick to what they know when it works for them), but rather that there are claims that this is used by commercial growers but examples are NOT given. Although I've not looked into it yet... Next thing to explore!
WOOT! Found this about lighting adjustments on Mums:
Cyclic (intermittent) lighting. In mums, it is not necessary to continuously operate Inc lamps from 10 pm to 2 am each night to achieve LD conditions. With 20 ft-c intensity from Inc lamps, lights need to be on only for 5% of a 30-minute period (28« minutes dark/1« minutes light) from 10 pm until 2 am to insure vegetative growth. With 10 ft-c intensity from Inc lamps, lights need to be on only for 20% of a 30-minute period (24 minutes dark/6 minutes light) from 10 pm until 2 am to insure vegetative growth. Thus, the percentage of time that lamps are operating is dependent on the light intensity received by the plants. In commercial operations, growers use night-interruption lighting (10 pm until 2 am) and cyclic lighting (24 minutes dark/8 minutes light) with Inc lamps at ¯10 ft-c. A cyclic lighting programmer (available from *******., Inc.) allows for 4 separate lighting circuits, and each circuit can be turned on for 8 minutes (1r8, 9r16, 17r24, and 25r32 minutes); this allows cyclic lighting for 4 separate zones. The cyclic lighting programmer can reduce photoperiod lighting costs by up to 75%.
Ok, proof that this sort of thing IS used to keep plants in veg state to bring down costs of lighting. NOW, the question is how much lighting is enough to optimize what is desired in the plant? Is longer veg time a decent trade-off (dependant on the situation) for money savings on electricity?
I'm for the trying of it to see. Actually, I have the ability to try a couple plants on 24/0 vs others on 12/5/2/5 with SAME lights just to see what happens with the veg cycle, and then flower in same situation to see how the results are. I can't do a LOT, but at least it will maybe show a little bit of what happens.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, old thread and all. But I'm interested!
looking forward to the resultsI will be doing this I think for my next grow, as smaller and bushier plants are really the goal here. I've read the ENTIRE thread to see what I can find out, and it makes sense for how it works.
I also don't think that higher amounts of light (24 hours, even 18 hours) generally is positive for most plants. Few plants are set up for more than 16 hours of intense lights ever naturally. Those that are near the poles are set for quick growth with those longer light cycles, but being out of their circadian cycles can really screw up animals I know so I would think that doing such can screw with plants. This can include both long light cycles as well as mid-night light periods.
Now, to figure out whether it DOES stress out the plants, there are a few ways to gauge this. Plants acting out of normal cycle is one, but also slower or faster growth can be another. I've looked a little bit to see what the growth rates are in 24 vs 20 vs 18 vs 16 hours, yet I've not found a lot of side by side comparisons to see how it really affects the plants.
Flowering sites and space as well as potency seems to be the focus with cannabis growers (duh!
From what I've READ both here and elsewhere, during vegitative states dealing with the 12/1 plan, the extra hour or such of lighting creates low levels of stress but also destroys flowering hormones within the plant so as it does not actually begin to flower even if it begins to prepare (some hormones created but not enough to push the plant over that edge). The middle-of-the-night lighting prevents the hormones from building the bud sites... On the other hand, maxing out the light at 24 hours non-stop is ineffective in light-to-growth size as the plant is not allowed to have it's rest period (it can deal without it's rest, but people can only go on so long running on caffeine!) - it is a stressor, although not a large one (From what I've read, about equal to the flashes or short nights broken by either long or short light periods).
Is the long dark period a stressor to the plants that kick it into a certain mode? It seems to be so - but as training can be a good stress on the plants and deadlines can be good for productivity at work, some stress can be good. Others can be bad (too much sugar/candy for people, too much nutes or water for plants...). It's the bad ones you have to watch out for - right?
Ok, so I'm a new grower of cannabis, but I've been gardening awhile and I read a LOT of info all the time. I'm just trying to make sense of all the info I've found.
I THINK this is a good way to help MOST strains reduce the stressed period of stretch (plants not concentrating on upward growth can focus on blooming and strength, right?) - although some may have a negative genetic factor that this does not work well with, just like some people are genetically predisposed to diabetes or cancer or epilepsy or blindness. Most people should have tons of fruit and veggies, but my husband must be cautious because of his ulcerative colitis...
If this also encourages a plant to have more flowers as topping can as well(like you can get mums to bloom more and be squatter by topping too!), then all the better!
I like hearing about adding more time in the last week or so of flowering as well for more yield - I'm gonna look into that too as the more yield we have, the longer before we need to grow again in my home (we are growing for a medical supply for my husband's severe chronic pain problems that medications so far are unable to keep under control). All that can help us in a small scale operation will help.
One very odd part I find in all this, is not that the older growers are not talking about trying it (many older growers LIKELY prefer their way of doing things that work for them - it's normal in ANY area of life for one to stick to what they know when it works for them), but rather that there are claims that this is used by commercial growers but examples are NOT given. Although I've not looked into it yet... Next thing to explore!
WOOT! Found this about lighting adjustments on Mums:
Cyclic (intermittent) lighting. In mums, it is not necessary to continuously operate Inc lamps from 10 pm to 2 am each night to achieve LD conditions. With 20 ft-c intensity from Inc lamps, lights need to be on only for 5% of a 30-minute period (28« minutes dark/1« minutes light) from 10 pm until 2 am to insure vegetative growth. With 10 ft-c intensity from Inc lamps, lights need to be on only for 20% of a 30-minute period (24 minutes dark/6 minutes light) from 10 pm until 2 am to insure vegetative growth. Thus, the percentage of time that lamps are operating is dependent on the light intensity received by the plants. In commercial operations, growers use night-interruption lighting (10 pm until 2 am) and cyclic lighting (24 minutes dark/8 minutes light) with Inc lamps at ¯10 ft-c. A cyclic lighting programmer (available from *******., Inc.) allows for 4 separate lighting circuits, and each circuit can be turned on for 8 minutes (1r8, 9r16, 17r24, and 25r32 minutes); this allows cyclic lighting for 4 separate zones. The cyclic lighting programmer can reduce photoperiod lighting costs by up to 75%.
Ok, proof that this sort of thing IS used to keep plants in veg state to bring down costs of lighting. NOW, the question is how much lighting is enough to optimize what is desired in the plant? Is longer veg time a decent trade-off (dependant on the situation) for money savings on electricity?
I'm for the trying of it to see. Actually, I have the ability to try a couple plants on 24/0 vs others on 12/5/2/5 with SAME lights just to see what happens with the veg cycle, and then flower in same situation to see how the results are. I can't do a LOT, but at least it will maybe show a little bit of what happens.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, old thread and all. But I'm interested!
rangergord
Active member
Go for it! I am still using the method myself. Not a commercial grower so personally I don't really care what the ignorant think about 12-1. I feel no burden to come up with proof for those unable to think and do for themselves. I am skeptical that plants respond to light in a simple linear fashion (more light is exactly equal to more growth and yeild) It might be more of a logarithmic relationship.
ProperGreen
New member
Thanks for this thread! It's an eye opener!
Thought i'd add something for the skeptics. I started using 12 on, 5 off, 2 on, 5 off about a year ago. I read through this thread and noticed a handful of people were having this preflower issue while others weren't. Obviously the method worked for most strains, but others still had a desire to flower. So I got to thinking, and decided an hour isn't always enough to keep things 100% in veg. Seemed logical to just add another hour of light to the dark period and go from there. With 2 hours of lights on in the middle of the dark period I haven't had any strain show preflowers. at least no more than they do under 24/7 lighting.
ProperGreen
New member
Thanks Again
Thanks Again
And thanks again.
Def. gonna look into this and report back on my findings!
Thanks Again
And thanks again.
Def. gonna look into this and report back on my findings!
Banefoul
Member
So i read someplace... 18/6 8 2 5 2 5 2.
8 on 2 off 5 on 2 off 5 on 2 off
amazing results.... as you can see the single, double or triple leaf is showing and all flowering clones have hairs all over. flower clones was for monster crop reveg try at drgreenbud sog...a work in progress
lets see if i can edit and name them...
1 3 flowering clones chocolope
2 flower clone mother chocolope ( will take her back to a "normal" 18/6 or 24 and see how she reacts, bubba 76 from seed
3 Buddha Tahoe og kush from seed ( she got watered)
4 heavy duty fruity from seed. trying lst on them. i have a gal not shown i took at a 90 angle and i like what i see, so shall try more at the doughnut lst
8 on 2 off 5 on 2 off 5 on 2 off
amazing results.... as you can see the single, double or triple leaf is showing and all flowering clones have hairs all over. flower clones was for monster crop reveg try at drgreenbud sog...a work in progress
lets see if i can edit and name them...
1 3 flowering clones chocolope
2 flower clone mother chocolope ( will take her back to a "normal" 18/6 or 24 and see how she reacts, bubba 76 from seed
3 Buddha Tahoe og kush from seed ( she got watered)
4 heavy duty fruity from seed. trying lst on them. i have a gal not shown i took at a 90 angle and i like what i see, so shall try more at the doughnut lst
Attachments
nachoconqueso
Member
I run 12 on 5 off 2 on 5 off. It works very well.
Has anyone done this from seed?
I had some mass stretching on my first day. Thinking Ill leave them under T5 for a few days.
My clones love 12/2. Ive never had such well structured plants.
I have some bubba and ogs going. We'll see if it hurts the bubbas more than it helps the stretch on the ogs
Will report back if I encounter any issues
I had some mass stretching on my first day. Thinking Ill leave them under T5 for a few days.
My clones love 12/2. Ive never had such well structured plants.
I have some bubba and ogs going. We'll see if it hurts the bubbas more than it helps the stretch on the ogs
Will report back if I encounter any issues
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