No Runoff - Taping the bottom of pots

[bradybunch]

I'm doing a research to find validation to this method.

I have a friend from the east coast that grows 2 plants per light on 18gl plastic pots using 1k HPS's on coco with base nutes of H&G. He claims 15-18oz per plant. This part of his method caught my attention.

He tapes the insides of the pots with aluminum A/C tape to prevent waste when feeding. He feeds 2gl and doesn't have to feed for another two days, which are the days needed for the plant to uptake the rest of the feed.

I searched for posts and threads on this topic and I came up with this useful thread.

Not a really popular method, and it's a pretty accepted and long-standing rule that you shouldn't leave your plants in standing water, but unlike soil, good coco won't get waterlogged, and will draw just enough water into the medium to keep your plants more than happy. The water never stands for more than 24 hours, so there's no chance of algae growth and no need to oxygenate, and the water is never deeper than 2-3 inches at a time, so very little of the rootmass is actually standing in the water. I do flush with fresh water from the top every week to clear out any build up....I suppose during the flushes would be the time to test the PH of the runoff, and adjust accordingly, but personally I'm too lazy for even that.

Pros:

• Have to water literally half as often
• No nute waste
• Half watering and no run-off measuring can reduce your watering workload by 75%
• Even, consistent feeding schedule for multiple plants
• Roots are drawn downward
• Plants never dry out

[URL=https://www.icmag.com/gallery/data/500/bottom2.jpg]View Image[/url]

Has anyone ever tried this method with coco?

 

[moses wellfleet]

Loss of expensive nutrients due to runoff is a huge problem for me!

 

[bradybunch]

These are other quotes from similar methods or revelations from.

I can see how the rockwool waterlogged the medium, but not the coco. While coco has a great absorption capacity (8-9 times its own weight), the coarse coir fibres still provides sufficient aeration for roots even when totally saturated. I've only seen waterlogging in 100% coco coir when the coco was re-cycled (fibers degraded) and the root system was underdeveloped. I've run coco coir pots bottom fed on constant flow trays, without a hint of waterlogging.

In the early nineties I was growing and experimenting with dripper systems, after running things for a while I noticed that if I increased the flow rate to the drippers the plants grew and flowered more quickly.

This led me to install bigger and larger bore dripper pipes, I had just modified one system before I went away for a week, when I came back the plants were all much larger as expected but what I didn't expect was the flow rate had been too high and as the roots had grown the roots had blocked the drain and were growing fully flooded! that's when I had a eureka moment and went and bought some brewing and builders buckets and started experimenting.

 

[noyd666]

used to run 40 hempys ,but with little to no waste, only so called waste when I wanted to flush something. in coco had no problems. now drain to waste in 11 ltr containers lol but I seldom let any waste out, feed low 1.2, fuk pouring it down the drain though, what ever works is fine.hand fed. top pot is drilled and sits in another pot. don't reckon I would use a sealed pot even though I have bugger all run off, if your mate is doing fine well' give it ago, luck.

 

[yerboyblue]

I end up using trays for my veg room, and water runoff sits at the bottom. It gets sucked up in a day or two. Sometimes I notice roots growing inches outside of the pot. It has never been a problem. I wouldn't think taping would be that good, keeping all that moisture inside the pot, but letting it drain into a tray around the pot and letting the soil and roots take what it needs when it needs it sounds better to me. I still feel there is something to be said for allowing runoff from time to time, letting build ups flush out and such.
Also, you could always recycle the runoff from normal watering, like give it a second go to get a more even watering. I have just never found it that viable to worry about 10-30% of a mixed up batch of nutes to fuss over, other than watering the lawn. I would practice getting better at having minimal run off from watering with nutes, and then do a good water only dose every one or two times you water.
Annnd I just realized I'm probably in the wrong thread, with no experience of pure coco coir growing. Still stick by saying you should dial in getting minimal runoff before you think about taping the drainage.

 

[LyryC]

subbed. This is very enticing - I run Coco DTW and if I could save the mass amounts of run off - and convert it into bud - mmmmmm

 

[Zarthustra]

I'm doing a research to find validation to this method.

I have a friend from the east coast that grows 2 plants per light on 18gl plastic pots using 1k HPS's on coco with base nutes of H&G. He claims 15-18oz per plant. This part of his method caught my attention.

He tapes the insides of the pots with aluminum A/C tape to prevent waste when feeding. He feeds 2gl and doesn't have to feed for another two days, which are the days needed for the plant to uptake the rest of the feed.

I searched for posts and threads on this topic and I came up with this useful thread.



Has anyone ever tried this method with coco?

How much money are you wasting by drain to waste opposed to the amount you would gain by doing so. 2.9 per light here on drain to waste with 2gal pots under 1khps 1-4 plants per light on gh.

 

[Cereals]

This is similar to bottom-feeding.

Aside from saving money on nutes, you can also save a ton of time this way!

I used to hand water with a mister (which works amazingly for fresh cuts/transplants in coarse coco), but it just became impractical because it was taking so long. So now I just dump water in the trays/tubs the girls are in and they drink it up over the next 24 hours. When the tubs start looking a bit dry, more water/nute mix is added. The girls are in smart pots.

I am a bit concerned that this might create too much humidity, but everything has seemed fantastic so far.

This way, you don't even need to take the time to pour water through each plant!

NOTE: Do not begin bottom-feeding regimen until plants are somewhat established after transplanting.

 

[LyryC]

I don't think these methods produce simliar results to proven methods like DTW

 

[bradybunch]

I would practice getting better at having minimal run off from watering with nutes, and then do a good water only dose every one or two times you water.

That's another good practice to perfect, but I think the point is to have that excess of feed sitting there, so that the plant could continue feeding for the next two days.

How much money are you wasting by drain to waste opposed to the amount you would gain by doing so. 2.9 per light here on drain to waste with 2gal pots under 1khps 1-4 plants per light on gh.

It's not a matter of how much one would save by not DTW. Its just another method that one has tried and worked out for them. You don't have to feed as often as coco would force you too by letting the excess runoff sit in the pot.

Your numbers are very impressive though..

This is similar to bottom-feeding.

Aside from saving money on nutes, you can also save a ton of time this way!

NOTE: Do not begin bottom-feeding regimen until plants are somewhat established after transplanting.

Its very similar, but thats the reason why I started this thread b/c I couldn't find anything on trapping the feed in the pot. Good pointer.

I'll have some pics up as soon as I receive them.

Correction:
He's on Canna Coco line with their additives and a few other additives from other lines.

 

[ThePizzaMan]

It's just a matter of having an established root system. You can overwater coco......I have done it. But if they are exploding with roots...and taking up the whole pot....I don't see how this could be a problem.

But doesn't this go against the whole idea of multiple feeds.....awesome aeration concept that you are using the coco for in the first place?

Why not just use soil at that point.




TPM

 

[pizzaguy]

ive seen many coco grows but one thing for sure having no drainage is not a good idea, also draining into a saucer and allowing the plant to wick up runoff is questionable at best. Coco fiber can absorb and store fert salts, you wont notice it until week 2-4 of flower thats when yellowing fans, spotting. Most growers then think cal/mag def, then add cal/mag making it worse. The awesome thing about coco is its ability to areate , it also, when watered properly doesnt have nute build up. 20% run off is a minimum more is better. use a tray collect it bubble it use it for several days , adding water and enzyme+microbes. also 50% perlite or the like. why do all this? so much water to deal with, using more nutes and additives, why its more work? the yield, the health of the plant, the roots my god standing fucking water on roots? never ever good, trust me ive worked hydro stores, ive counseled many a grower down off a ledge. FUCK NO-DRAIN COCO ok i got it off my chest. anybody who does it is getting lucky, dont be mad at me its science. wicking up can work only if nutes dont build up. but goddamnit that means nutes are too low, why? the yield suffers and quality? quality is a direct correlation to health and strength. strong roots not sitting in fucking gnat larvae infested saucers. never limit the plant, organics? same thing, no worse rotting fucking whatever just sitting there calling the insects to fuck and lay eggs. oh yeah little secret from the underground get rocks hard pond stones not limestone gravel, bottom of the container 2-5 inches so it keeps coco up out of standing fucking water. air water light

 

[Born Loser]

I use Roots coco mixed w/ Roots chips. Best stuff Ive ever used. I don't DTW. If it runs off, it sits in it. I don't flush, I don't use any plain water till the last week or so. Why, because it works fine for me, and I don't feel like jerkin with it. The Roots mix was a game changer for me.
Heres a 7' purple skunk, in a 1 gallon pot. Its been in water a lot. The top is like a baseball bat of purple calyxes. The other is a skywalker OG x, wet all her life in the coco mix in a constantly wet hempy (100% coco mix).
I have had soggy/wet issues w/ other coco, but not w/ my roots mix.
The driest these have ever gotten was when the base of the pot still had a ring of water around/under it.
It goes against everything Ive been taught for the last 30 yrs. I just go with it...

 

[Born Loser]

Oh, I would not grow in a sealed pot. I always have the option to let em dry. I just never do. LOL

 

[Cereals]

@Born Loser: I can tell the plant in the 2nd pic was very happy by the color of the petioles/stem

I didn't see straight GREEN stems like that until I started bottom-feeding. Before that I was seeing lots of purple striping, red petioles - I think my coco was drying out too fast. I am using coco croutons.

 

[Elmer Bud]

ive seen many coco grows but one thing for sure having no drainage is not a good idea, also draining into a saucer and allowing the plant to wick up runoff is questionable at best. Coco fiber can absorb and store fert salts, you wont notice it until week 2-4 of flower thats when yellowing fans, spotting. Most growers then think cal/mag def, then add cal/mag making it worse. The awesome thing about coco is its ability to areate , it also, when watered properly doesnt have nute build up. 20% run off is a minimum more is better. use a tray collect it bubble it use it for several days , adding water and enzyme+microbes. also 50% perlite or the like. why do all this? so much water to deal with, using more nutes and additives, why its more work? the yield, the health of the plant, the roots my god standing fucking water on roots? never ever good, trust me ive worked hydro stores, ive counseled many a grower down off a ledge. FUCK NO-DRAIN COCO ok i got it off my chest. anybody who does it is getting lucky, dont be mad at me its science. wicking up can work only if nutes dont build up. but goddamnit that means nutes are too low, why? the yield suffers and quality? quality is a direct correlation to health and strength. strong roots not sitting in fucking gnat larvae infested saucers. never limit the plant, organics? same thing, no worse rotting fucking whatever just sitting there calling the insects to fuck and lay eggs. oh yeah little secret from the underground get rocks hard pond stones not limestone gravel, bottom of the container 2-5 inches so it keeps coco up out of standing fucking water. air water light

G`day PG

Ever heard of the Hempy bucket ?
Those fckers have a 2 inch rez in the bottom . And guess what ? The roots sit in water !!
Thousands have used the method and nothin but good reviews .
re nutes too low . I don`t go any higher than 1.2 EC . Its superfluous to add more .
I`m using trays and coco / perlite . In small pots . Into the 3rd week of flower ATM and no deficiency ...

Thanks for sharin

EB .

 

[Born Loser]

this is the baby yogurt cup hempy the OG x is in.

 

[LyryC]

It would be nice to have DHF shed some light on this thread

 

[blaze02]

keep your p level lower than if you had runoff..

 

[bradybunch]

A lot of interesting comments.