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Terpenation at Terpene Station

R

RHH

Member
nakadashi said:
Whoa. Envisioning an MKIIIa with a 12" collection pot and a 4" x 48" column caused some slight tech engorgement. At packing density of 4.2g/in^3 that's like 2.8lb flower/trim a column!! O_O Insaneee..
Click to expand...

48" tall is...really tall. You would be better off doing a 30" to 36". The packing density you're suggesting is straight from GW's mouth but your calculations are off.

volume = pi*radius^2*height
volume = 3.14*4*48
volume = 602.88 in^3.

602.88 * 4.2g/in^3 = 2532g ~ 5.5lb. I would lowball it to 4.5-5lb per run.

I know GW is skeptical of 4" tubes(says they don't flood evenly) but, *shrug*, capacity was more important than efficiency. You could just as easily use a 3" tube.

In terms of height--I would never recommend 48" unless you are tall enough for the NBA. 48" + 12" collection pot + 9" reducer + 6" ball valve height + 2" ferrule(spacer)...and you are well into a 6' tall machine not including the sight glass! A 30", 36", or even 40" column would be much more manageable.

Personally, I would do a 30" x 4" column just for convenience and increase the # of machines before I increased the height.
 
N

nakadashi

Member
RHH said:
48" tall is...really tall. You would be better off doing a 30" to 36". The packing density you're suggesting is straight from GW's mouth but your calculations are off.

volume = pi*radius^2*height
volume = 3.14*4*48
volume = 602.88 in^3.

602.88 * 4.2g/in^3 = 2532g ~ 5.5lb. I would lowball it to 4.5-5lb per run.

I know GW is skeptical of 4" tubes(says they don't flood evenly) but, *shrug*, capacity was more important than efficiency. You could just as easily use a 3" tube.

In terms of height--I would never recommend 48" unless you are tall enough for the NBA. 48" + 12" collection pot + 9" reducer + 6" ball valve height + 2" ferrule(spacer)...and you are well into a 6' tall machine not including the sight glass! A 30", 36", or even 40" column would be much more manageable.

Personally, I would do a 30" x 4" column just for convenience and increase the # of machines before I increased the height.
Click to expand...
Ooops, fudged it up, I calculated for a 4" x 24" which is what I actually had in mind. Thanks for correcting me!

I am still not entirely sure why we can't run bigger columns but from bits of information gleaned from SPR and here, I believe the issue is flow of butane -- with a wide column the butane won't rush through the material like it does with the 1.5" column. I guess a super wide column would require running the MKIII as a pure soak machine rather than the hybrid flood/soak it currently runs as.
 
N

nakadashi

Member
icdog said:
I finally tapped some cans and have a few questions.

Do you guys tap the can and leave it? I found that flipping the can around changed the pressure till it was empty. Is that helpful?

The valves on the appion, what do you guys have them set at? Open all the way on both?
How do you know when the appion is empty of butane and the hose? When I was done tapping I kept the appion running for at least 5 minutes. Turned it off and disconnected everything but the out hose to the tank. When I unscrewed the out hose quite a bit of butane spewed out.
Once the hoses are off the appion is it empty of butane?

I iced my tank down while I was tapping as GW said. The tank weighed 28 lbs empty and about 34 after the tapping. When I burped the tank with the vapor valve and I re weighed the tank it was 36 lbs. Is that possible? I'm pretty sure some gas was escaping as my leak detector was going crazy, how could the tank weigh more?
Click to expand...
There is always some butane left in the Appion->Storage Tank hose. What I do after runs is I leave the Appion running for like 5 seconds as I close the vapor valve on the tank. When I do this, only some gas is left in the hose. Before I started doing this I would be losing a lot of liquid butane.

In the same manner, don't forget to purge the hose going from liquid port -> terpenator as well after each run. (Eg, During final recovery, Close the liquid valve on your storage tank, open the butane-in valve on the terpenator until pressure drop)
 
D

dybert

Active member
nakadashi said:
There is always some butane left in the Appion->Storage Tank hose. What I do after runs is I leave the Appion running for like 5 seconds as I close the vapor valve on the tank. When I do this, only some gas is left in the hose. Before I started doing this I would be losing a lot of liquid butane.

In the same manner, don't forget to purge the hose going from liquid port -> terpenator as well after each run. (Eg, During final recovery, Close the liquid valve on your storage tank, open the butane-in valve on the terpenator until pressure drop)
Click to expand...

You can buy mini shutoff valves for your hoses that exist right at the very end. This makes you lose almost no butane.
 
N

nakadashi

Member
mr. durden said:
I use the mt-69, so my process is a bit different

Sent from my GT-N7100 using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
Lol ugh. Ordered one on Friday, notified on Monday that it was out of stock so I had to go with another vendor. I want that thing sooooooooo bad.

On an unrelated note, I remember you made a joke before about packing with a hammer. Now I am packing with a wood rod that is the perfect size for the 1.5" column and a hammer (more like a mallet) and it is working out great! 210g each tube with no apparent difference from when I was doing 180g.

Edit: No apparent difference in end product, but flood time takes longer. Went from 10-15s to 30sec.
 
icdog

icdog

Member
Whats the difference in time not using the mt-69 and using it for one column? Its not much money but is it worth it?

GW if you don't have enough material can the mk3 column be packed with less then 150g, like 50g?
 
N

nakadashi

Member
icdog said:
Whats the difference in time not using the mt-69 and using it for one column? Its not much money but is it worth it?

GW if you don't have enough material can the mk3 column be packed with less then 150g, like 50g?
Click to expand...

I asked Mr. Durden this question too but he hasn't run without it. I should be getting mine soon and I keep keep timed logs so I'll let you know when I've done a few runs with it.
 
R

RHH

Member
icdog said:
Whats the difference in time not using the mt-69 and using it for one column? Its not much money but is it worth it?

GW if you don't have enough material can the mk3 column be packed with less then 150g, like 50g?
Click to expand...

Get a 1.5"x12" column for $30.
 
R

RHH

Member
N

nakadashi

Member
RHH said:
http://www.glaciertanks.com/Couplers_1_-2_TriClamp-TriClamp_1_1_2_Coupler_12_Length.html

That's the one. It should hold roughly 50-60g. I wouldn't "under pack" a column...You may just end up with your flowers floating up towards the top in a pool of butane. You would definitely over-fill your collection pot with the excess butane and it would be a nightmare to pump it off. Not worth the hassle when a $27 part fixes the problem.
Click to expand...
If you "under pack" a column wouldn't it effectively become a thermos extraction?

Changing the length of column is a hassle to me because of the 1/4" steel vent tube.
 
Momerath

Momerath

Active member
Hey there everyone, been reading through this wonderful thread and had an idea so I thought I would chime in.

Nakadashi's question inspired this, as I too have been pondering the thought of a vent tube that could be used with any length column, as I own several different length tubes.

GW, would something like this be applicable?
http://www.jpcycles.com/product/740...g&matchtype=&gclid=COWb0PG6n7oCFQHZQgodOV8A1Q

Seems like if you just changed the type of hose, you could leave a little extra length on it to accommodate up to a 36" and down to a 6" without having to change out the vent tube.
 
Gray Wolf

Gray Wolf

A Posse ad Esse. From Possibility to realization.
Mentor
ICMag Donor
Veteran
icdog said:
Whats the difference in time not using the mt-69 and using it for one column? Its not much money but is it worth it?

GW if you don't have enough material can the mk3 column be packed with less then 150g, like 50g?
Click to expand...

It is worth it if you are setting up for a long run. For a short one, the losses when you disconnect the Mt-69 have to be considered.

Yes, you can either use a short column, or pack the rest of the column with wadded coffee filters.
 
Gray Wolf

Gray Wolf

A Posse ad Esse. From Possibility to realization.
Mentor
ICMag Donor
Veteran
Momerath said:
Hey there everyone, been reading through this wonderful thread and had an idea so I thought I would chime in.

Nakadashi's question inspired this, as I too have been pondering the thought of a vent tube that could be used with any length column, as I own several different length tubes.

GW, would something like this be applicable?
http://www.jpcycles.com/product/740...g&matchtype=&gclid=COWb0PG6n7oCFQHZQgodOV8A1Q

Seems like if you just changed the type of hose, you could leave a little extra length on it to accommodate up to a 36" and down to a 6" without having to change out the vent tube.
Click to expand...

It looks like it probably would work, given that it is a fuel hose, but I would need to know what the liner is made out of and that information isn't posted.
 
icdog

icdog

Member
What does butane do when it is released in the atmosphere? Does it break down?
I looked up one site which said it photodegrades in a few days.
If you vac the oil indoors and there is residual butane what happens to it inside a room? I've tested this with my butane meter and it rises to about 50 ppm but drops quickly to zero in a small room. Has the butane reacted and broken down or just in very small ppm?
What do you guys do with columns of spent material? Leave it outside for a few days for the butane to vapor off?
 
M

mr. durden

Member
Gray Wolf said:
It is worth it if you are setting up for a long run. For a short one, the losses when you disconnect the Mt-69 have to be considered.

Yes, you can either use a short column, or pack the rest of the column with wadded coffee filters.
Click to expand...

GW, I don't understand why you keep saying this regarding the mt-69. if you look at the manual, it explains how to use it and reclaim what is in the hoses/unit so that there aren't any losses.
 
M

mr. durden

Member
icdog said:
What does butane do when it is released in the atmosphere? Does it break down?
I looked up one site which said it photodegrades in a few days.
If you vac the oil indoors and there is residual butane what happens to it inside a room? I've tested this with my butane meter and it rises to about 50 ppm but drops quickly to zero in a small room. Has the butane reacted and broken down or just in very small ppm?
What do you guys do with columns of spent material? Leave it outside for a few days for the butane to vapor off?
Click to expand...

i just leave it outside, preferably in the sun, for at least a couple hours before i bring it in and clean it
 
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