flipflop relay help

[Hydrolized]

I was also going to mention the oxidation problem if using a diode.

A macgyver workaround here for something that is potentially going to be controlling quite a bit of power....sounds like a bad plan...the new relays are only $10-$20 as rives said so just get the right one.

If you don't have an Ebay account, search for "Dayton 5X847" Those are DPDT relays with a 120v Coil for $20 *edit, on Amazon*

 

[marmarb]

okay so this is the new plane gonna ditch thoes two relays and order two off of amazon im near a grainger so im gonna go see if they have them instock at the warehouse i have 4 female adapters already and extra timers so the only thing im missing is the relays question though how do i run the power from the timer to the relay

 

[Hammerhead]

Grainger should have them. The timer needs to have 120v outlet on it. I use a woods. Buy a 120v cord at HD the cord get hooked on to the relay coil Neutral and black or red. When the timer says to turn on it sends 120v to the coil to turn on. then the power will be let through to the lights. Here is my Schematic.

 

[marmarb]

thats for a 4 ballast 8 light flip right

 

[marmarb]

http://www.ebay.com/itm/12-V-Dc-DPD...123?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item5ad2d56563

is this the right relay

 

[Hammerhead]

no you need 120v 40a DPDT. The one you put up is 12v coil wont work you need it to work from a 120v timer. Like A woods digital
Woods timer. The relays coil gets its power fron this

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Allen-Bradl...659?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item337543f793

oR THIS ONE

http://www.grainger.com/Grainger/DAYTON-Power-Relay-5X847?Pid=search

Or this one

http://www.plccenter.com/Shop/MAGNECRAFT/W199AX14/NSPP?source=GoogleShopping


This place lets you pick what you want

http://www.zorotools.com/g/Heavy-Duty Power Relays/00053766/

 

[samba]

Why not just get a contactor with 4 NO and 4 NC? (Normally Open/Closed,NO/NC)
I'm sure you have them over in the states.
Get one with 4 NC and get the add-on piece on top with 4 NO
Have 4 lights on NO and 4 light on NC
Then control it with with a timer like 2h on/ 2h off and control the mains to your ballast with a 4 NC contactor with a timer on 12h/12h. You would as well have the 2h/2h contactor behind the 12/12 contactor as well.

Something like this:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Contactor
The picture looks like a 4 NO and 4 NC added.
Edit, noup, the add-on is NO+NC+NC+NO, so thats an add-on with 2 NO and 2 NC
Edit2: Oh, and the one the OP has, I think they are used alot in indutry and so on, where you have the "controlside" in 24v and the "power" side in 120/240V
Edit3: This might work as a flip-flop
http://www.kentstore.com/dila-40120vac.aspx (should have 4NO, 120V@10A)
and click this on top of it (real easy to add it on, no tool just click in place)
http://www.kentstore.com/dila-xhi40.aspx 4 NC, I'm assuming 120V@10A as well)
I'm sure you will find cheaper ones, this is the first I found.

Edit4: I should stop editing
Heres a combo that would flip 3 light on ebay (3 NO+5 NC) for 15£, thats like 25$
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Electric-...ial_Automation_Control_ET&hash=item3a74303a9e

 

[Tactician]

Google magnecraft W199AX-14, use the 30A or 40A model, not the 10A. Horticontrol and Powerbox cheap out and use the 10A model, it costs them $11 each. That's quite a markup considering how much they charge for their flipboxes.

http://canada.newark.com/magnecraft/w199ax-14/power-relay-dpdt-120vac-40a-panel/dp/56F971

 

[growshopfrank]

Why not just get a contactor with 4 NO and 4 NC? (Normally Open/Closed,NO/NC)
I'm sure you have them over in the states.
Get one with 4 NC and get the add-on piece on top with 4 NO
Have 4 lights on NO and 4 light on NC
Then control it with with a timer like 2h on/ 2h off and control the mains to your ballast with a 4 NC contactor with a timer on 12h/12h. You would as well have the 2h/2h contactor behind the 12/12 contactor as well.

Something like this:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Contactor
The picture looks like a 4 NO and 4 NC added.
Edit, noup, the add-on is NO+NC+NC+NO, so thats an add-on with 2 NO and 2 NC
Edit2: Oh, and the one the OP has, I think they are used alot in indutry and so on, where you have the "controlside" in 24v and the "power" side in 120/240V
Edit3: This might work as a flip-flop
http://www.kentstore.com/dila-40120vac.aspx (should have 4NO, 120V@10A)
and click this on top of it (real easy to add it on, no tool just click in place)
http://www.kentstore.com/dila-xhi40.aspx 4 NC, I'm assuming 120V@10A as well)
I'm sure you will find cheaper ones, this is the first I found.

Edit4: I should stop editing
Heres a combo that would flip 3 light on ebay (3 NO+5 NC) for 15£, thats like 25$
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Electric-...ial_Automation_Control_ET&hash=item3a74303a9e

here is a allen-bradley part # for 2no. 2nc contactor w 120v coil 700-CF220D the relay is rated for 600v ac and very durable,hot starts don't harm them and if you have a few in the same box they run cooler than the usual open relays that most flip makers use.

 

[Hammerhead]

I just picked up 2 of the magnacrafts. Im going to update my box. I will remove the contactor and replace it with the 2 relays in there own box. I need another one to control the AC on a timer.. Plus I want the unit to be code compliant.

 

[stagehand099]

will this work?

will this work?

I found this on the interwebz.....will this do it safe?

Using Dayton 5x874

 

[rives]

I found this on the interwebz.....will this do it safe?

Using Dayton 5x874

That is the correct hook-up for switching between two lamps. As far as safe, that would depend on the enclosure, grounding, etc. Personally, I would want to turn the ballast off while switching, but lots of people do it hot.

 

[stagehand099]

That is the correct hook-up for switching between two lamps. Personally, I would want to turn the ballast off while switching, but lots of people do it hot.

Hey Rives, thanks. I trust your advice, buddy. I use core and coil ballasts, so are they safer for switching hot than digitals, or does that even matter?

I built my own 30 amp 240v breakout and now I have a need for a 3 ballast flipflop. Will 3 of the Dayton relays inside a properly-sized NEMA enclosure with correct wire sizing and connections be as good as whats commercially available?

stagehand

 

[rives]

The problem with hot switching the ballasts is the contacts "making" during the 3-4kv ignition pulse. Additionally, with the electronic ballasts, it bypasses the soft-start function and arcing downstream of a semiconductor is a poor idea. According to Wazzup, it will void the warranty on the Gavita electronic ballasts. However, the Dayton 5X847 and similar relays are incredibly tough, and even with a shortened lifespan are likely to outlast either of us.

I have no doubt that you could build something far superior to the commercial offerings. If you were so inclined, learning how to use one of the little micro controller "smart-relays" would not only take care of the timer function for you, but give you many other control options including cold-switching the ballast with the addition of another relay to cut the power ahead of the ballast prior to doing the flip.

 

[marmarb]

okay i have both types of ballast this is going to be used for a 1k magnetic i see how the timer attachs to the relay but how are you turing the ballast off before the flip unless the ballast is plugged into a timer itself and than ran to the relay and if that is so than its not really hiding the 12/12 light schedule is it i see that people are using it with the mags n not shutting down im gonna try it that way but with the digi im gonna use the extra timer to flip

 

[rives]

The problem with a separate timer is keeping the timers co-ordinated, which is why I suggested the micro controller. They usually have real-time clocks built into them, so you can do numerous very precise timing functions.

 

[marmarb]

oh okay well the new relays come tomorrow so thats when im gonna be putting it together gonna run one bulb vertical with 8 site rdwc the other over a 4x4 table with horizontal reflector which ever yields more per plant average than 2nd run will have identical setups

 

[imnotcrazy]

Wiring, programming smart relay for flip flop:

Wiring, programming smart relay for flip flop:

https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=99252


Like rives said, better to have the timing of everything coordinated off a single timer. I was able to build mine using the on-board memory for the program.

The basic models will run in the $150 range and the memory/capabilities are expandable

But lots of other people also posted in that thread giving a good idea of how versatile these Nano PLCs/Micro Controllers are.

 

[marmarb]

relay has arrived wont be wiring it up untill this weekend it wont be needed for about a month just like to plan ahead

 

[SecondAttempt]

I know this is an old thread but is anyone who isn't banned running the Magnecraft relays... I'm thinking about using them but need a little push. Rives how do the Magnecraft stack up against the other brands... Specs look to be the same. Thanks in advance for any input, I would have just PMed Hammerhead if he was still around.