Finding Balance between GPW and Weight Per Plant

[vapeman24]

Hello,

Along with the help of a friend, I will be hopefully starting my first grow around February/March of next year.

Here is what we know so far:

- 15x15x7 space
- Maximum of 36 plants (that includes both flowering and veg)
- 6kw max
- Vertical lighting
- Coco
- c02 enriched

Here is my dilemma. I have been searching the forums for two straight weeks, and I feel like I know less now than when I started.

My ultimate growing goal would be to get to 1.5 GPW and one pound per plant.

So, how would the experts set up a room to maximize yield and GPW given what I will have to work with? Should we flower 12 large plants, and veg and root the rest? Flower 18 and veg 18? Flower six trees, and veg and root the rest?

I am also trying to find a solution that is both efficient and will be easier for my friend and I to handle given this will be our first grow. Personally, it seems like it would be easier to maintain 6 trees than 18 smaller plants, but maybe I am wrong.

We have friends who grow, so they will be able to assist us with many things so we are not completely alone in doing this, but I know for a fact this community has 1,000+ years of combined experience so I wanted to start here first.

Thank you for any help or suggestions

 

[SirStynkalot]

Is that 6kw at one time or 6kw max?

I can already tell you what a lot of the old vert heads would say. Pick the watering method you're most comfortable with and do tree flip rooms. It's what every dispensary grower in WA does. Coco in 5-7 gal smart pots (depending on veg time and light intensity) on dtw drippers sounds about right for what you're talking about.

As far as final weight numbers go, no one can tell you that. Whatever you do, if you're making major design changes or new to growing you should probably be happy to start at about .5 gpw. Increased gpw reflects grower experience and dialing in the environmental factors and strains. Whenever people break 1 gpw it's a reflection of their attention to learning and eliminating greatest limiting factors repeatedly over several grows.

 

[vapeman24]

Is that 6kw at one time or 6kw max?

Could you please tell me the difference between the two?

I was planning on using HPS lights. The max amount of lights we would feel comfortable using at this point would be 6kw.

 

[SirStynkalot]

Well, if you do flowering lights on a flip flop breaker you could run, say, 4kw for 12 hours of the day, then when that turns off another 4kw room flips on for 12 hours, etc. Makes it so you have a stable 4kw pull instead of 8kw on 0 off.

Sounds like you're talking about total kwh at the end of the month though (security) rather than as much electricity as the circuits can easily handle (safety). In that case you'll probably still want to do, say, two 1800w flip rooms. You could use a single 12-15kw portable AC unit for each room and you'll still have some load left over for another 600 for veg, some t5s, fans, etc.

in that case the benifit to a flip flop breaker is it would make environmental control cheaper and easier. It's easer and a bit more efficient to manage two smaller spaces with less light in each than one large room.

 

[SirStynkalot]

First grow though I'd say less is more. Start with a single flip room, invest in it properly and learn how to work it, then double up on equipment when you get a good harvest.

Trying to maximize that space like that with three chambers and 4-6kw in lighting is going to cost you a LOT and there's no certain return on the investment for a new grower. The less you invest on the front end when you're not very experienced, the more you have to invest to cover your inevitable mistakes.

Just spend for your mistakes wisely. You see one of two things on these sorts of sites for new growers. The first is the unlimited wallet - every problem they have, they go read a book or ask the hydro store guy and basically pick a solution at random. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't, but it's always expensive. The other kind of guy spent every cent on the lights and dirt and pots but didn't realize they also needed a Ph monitor. Then they wonder why everything looks like crap, freak out on their forum of choice, but can't afford the equipment that would actually tell people what's wrong in the first place.

I, like most others, was the second kind

 

[SirStynkalot]

Gods I wish I could edit. Not a flip room. Invest in a single flower room and veg space, then add a second flower room later when it makes financial sense. There we go. FFS...

 

[vapeman24]

Well, if you do flowering lights on a flip flop breaker you could run, say, 4kw for 12 hours of the day, then when that turns off another 4kw room flips on for 12 hours, etc. Makes it so you have a stable 4kw pull instead of 8kw on 0 off.

Sounds like you're talking about total kwh at the end of the month though (security) rather than as much electricity as the circuits can easily handle (safety). In that case you'll probably still want to do, say, two 1800w flip rooms. You could use a single 12-15kw portable AC unit for each room and you'll still have some load left over for another 600 for veg, some t5s, fans, etc.

in that case the benifit to a flip flop breaker is it would make environmental control cheaper and easier. It's easer and a bit more efficient to manage two smaller spaces with less light in each than one large room.

I like this idea of the flip rooms. My partner and I wanted to experiment with slight variations in growing techniques, and this would allow us to do exactly that to see which we prefer.

With the space we will have we could nicely fit two 8 x 8 tents to start off with. Since we won't need to set-up for a perpetual harvest the first go-around we can veg in one tent then flower in two 8 x 8 flip rooms with 4kw each.

Like stated earlier, we both have acquaintances who grow, so we will have a helping hand along the way which is why we feel fine going with a relatively high amount of lights to start off with. We are still at least four months away from even setting up the grow so I will probably spend another 300-500 hours between then reading books and journals to educate myself. I am just trying to get a very basic idea of what we will be doing so I can start planning accordingly. I am not going to half-ass anything so I will have all the proper equipment, and the rooms will be set-up perfectly before a plant goes in there. No point in even starting if I can't get the environment 100% perfect.

How do you like this design? The four 600w's would be in the middle of the two rows, and the 400w's would be on the floor providing light to the bottom buds to get exactly 4000w. Would you increase the plant count? I can technically go up to 18 plants.

First grow though I'd say less is more. Start with a single flip room, invest in it properly and learn how to work it, then double up on equipment when you get a good harvest.

The reason I got into making concentrates before I got into growing was because I knew exactly how hard it is to grow superior bud. I love making BHO because you can do experiments and get results within the day, and sometimes within hours. With growing, it can take 3+ months to get results from changing certain variables!!!! I knew I did not have the time or the cash to properly do it the way I wanted to. However, after being in the concentrate game for several years I have been lucky enough to make many friends who will always be willing lend me knowledge, so I know I will be successful doing this. I just need to get those reps in!!!

 

[SirStynkalot]

Well, in that case check out Bobblehead's bobbleracks thread. I believe it's a sticky in the vert section.

The differences you'd want for your grow would basically be to up the light a bit to compensate for the CO2 boosting and drop the plant count to fit your limits. That's my suggestion.

 

[vapeman24]

Well, in that case check out Bobblehead's bobbleracks thread. I believe it's a sticky in the vert section.

The differences you'd want for your grow would basically be to up the light a bit to compensate for the CO2 boosting and drop the plant count to fit your limits. That's my suggestion.

Thanks I will check it out tonigh!

 

[vapeman24]

So after reading through Bobblhead's thread and others, it seems my design was not very efficient in using all of that space. Now I am thinking of doing a vertical stadium style grow where I could make stands that hold the plants at a 45* angle to allow them to grow like Bobblehead's plants.

Using this method I could double the amount of plants I had in my first design while still having them the same size and yield per plant (or very close at least) since I will be taking advantage of the vertical space. So the question becomes, do I want to put 12 plants in there or all 36?

I personally like the idea of 12-18 larger plants because I feel like that will be more manageable our first time around, but I don't have experience so what do I know.

Thoughts anyone?

 

[Primalraindrop]

I personally like the idea of 12-18 larger plants because I feel like that will be more manageable our first time around, but I don't have experience so what do I know.




Have a few extras as replacements... you never know what can happen... maybe a light falls, you trip, wild dog, anything can happen. safe bet.. have 1-2 extra just incase. so i would do 14 if it was me... you have room to wiggle that way

 

[SirStynkalot]

TBH I think about 12-16 sounds right for you. Setting up back to back crops so you have some well established plant matter always in the flower room will significantly speed up your rotation cycles. It's also less devastating if you get a crop failure (which CAN happen) since at least you have something coming in behind it to get restarted ASAP.

 

[vapeman24]

Have a few extras as replacements... you never know what can happen... maybe a light falls, you trip, wild dog, anything can happen. safe bet.. have 1-2 extra just incase. so i would do 14 if it was me... you have room to wiggle that way

Yeah that sounds about right. If I build a two step stadium I can put four plants on the top row giving them 4 sq/ft each to grow, and the row beneath I can put three plants in-between the gaps on the top row. Then I can have another 8x8 tent dedicated for cloning and vegging.

Here is a basic idea of what I mean. The only thing not pictured is the fact that the plants would be angled to grow towards the inside and top of the tent. I would try to put a screen up to try and maximize the canopy and have both walls filled with green. This would be using a total of eight 600w HPS bare bulbs to get a total of 4800w which comes out to 75w/sqft so that should be perfect for a c02 enriched room. I would hope with the help I will be receiving I can get .75gpw, which would come out to just over 8 pounds or just under 10 ounces per plant. That would be my goal for my first grow!

 

[vapeman24]

This is what it would essentially look like from the side. The diagonal blue lines would be netting or strings to train the plants to fill as much space as possible.

Top row is four plants deep, and the bottom would be 3 plants deep for a total of 14 plants.

Any thoughts?

 

[BigSteve]

I just wanted to show love from Spokane Washington!

Carry on!

 

[vapeman24]

TBH I think about 12-16 sounds right for you. Setting up back to back crops so you have some well established plant matter always in the flower room will significantly speed up your rotation cycles. It's also less devastating if you get a crop failure (which CAN happen) since at least you have something coming in behind it to get restarted ASAP.

Whoops missed this post. Yes I think 14 is the perfect number. That way we can set up another 8x8 tent next to the flower tent and have two mothers and have 16 clones ready for the next go-around to put us exactly at 36 plants.

Again my ultimate goal would be to get to 1.5gpw, which would put me just over 1 pound per plant, which would be just over 16 pounds each harvest. The question is whether or not I can accomplish this in soil, I have seen it done in hydro set-ups. Regardless, it is what I am shooting for!!!

I just wanted to show love from Spokane Washington!

Carry on!

 

[vapeman24]

Better yet, I found a setup extremely close to my last design. Only difference is that I would have five more 600w lights and be in an 8x8 tent with c02.

 

[SirStynkalot]

Spokane REPRESENT!

 

[SirStynkalot]

and I hate to bear bad news but a pound per plant is pretty hard. at 1 gpw which is hard to hit you'd need about 1kw per two plants.

a better way to look at it is to design something you want to run and then learn it. what you get will depend on how fast you learn the system but there are limits. increasing canopy, lighting, or plant count will all theoretically increase efficiency up to a certain point. If you build a big ass veg and flower room you can always use it in just a donut or something until you veg big enough girls to make the vscrog run smoothly.

 

[vapeman24]

and I hate to bear bad news but a pound per plant is pretty hard. at 1 gpw which is hard to hit you'd need about 1kw per two plants.

a better way to look at it is to design something you want to run and then learn it. what you get will depend on how fast you learn the system but there are limits. increasing canopy, lighting, or plant count will all theoretically increase efficiency up to a certain point. If you build a big ass veg and flower room you can always use it in just a donut or something until you veg big enough girls to make the vscrog run smoothly.

Oh I know it would be a stretch to get those kind of numbers, but again, that isn't what I expect to accomplish my first grow or even a few after that. Its just something I want to try to work towards to see if I can dial in a set-up that can come close or maybe, just maybe, hit those numbers. I love having a hard challenge!!!

I don't mind vegging for a long time, that can be done during flowering. Ill just have to wait a little longer for the first grow to get those clones nice and big before we throw them into flower. If you were to run a vscrog like the one above, how long would you veg your plants for?